Squealers' Coach Tomlin Cheats to Prevent TD

[unoriginal]

Isn't that like splitting hairs?

Perhaps, but your general commentary concerns us in that you appear to believe the act of filming or stealing visual signals is cheating, when the rule the Patriots violated is designed to prevent in-game video review by the coaching staff and players. It's a common mistake among fans of other teams so we naturally assume it when unsure.

If you're using it as shorthand, fine.

 

[groganbootleg]

I'm not sure why some people are having a problem with understanding the concept of fixing a mistake without backdating.....

Because its completely unfair........ not sure why you are having trouble understanding that

 

[Sticky Caulk]

Because its completely unfair........ not sure why you are having trouble understanding that

How is it unfair? This upcoming punishment isn't about new England or New Orleans. It's about the NFL today and the Steelers. Taking a pick away because they did it in the past would be unfair to the Steelers organization. Tomlin deserves a heavy punishment, but beyond that, hurting the teams future competitive abilities shouldn't be considered. It's sad that the NFL has such a terrible commissioner that would consider such a thing in the first place. Goodell sees punishing the fans as a legitimate way to get his point across.

 

[Deus Irae]

Because its completely unfair........ not sure why you are having trouble understanding that

:noidea:

Probably because I understand that "fair", as you're using it, is just code for "We got screwed, so everyone should get screwed", and isn't really about 'fair', at all.

 

[Koma]

No. It's like saying Belichick was shooting up children full of heroin when all he did was smoke a cigarette in the school parking lot after hours. It wasn't what he did. It's where he did it.

Can you prove Belichick wasn't supplying heroin to children??!?

I didn't think so.

 

[PATS16N0]

Equating what Tomlin did in the heat of the moment in a game in which they still lost and Jacoby was probably going to get caught by Cortez anyway to videotaping signals for what very well could have been 7 seasons is silly.

The Saints lost multiple second round picks in their "Bountygate" scandal. Now, it's debatable whether or not they would have lost a first round pick if they had one that year, but the logic still holds: does what Tomlin did warrant the loss of a first round pick over the intent to injure players?

The consistency argument is a poor one.

I asked you before for proof of that allegation that your idiotic fan base likes to freely throw around earlier in the thread and you conveniently vanished.

We were found in violation of league rules for having a camera man at a Jets practice standing for everyone to see. That isn't cheating. It's a technicality. It's being in violation of league rules. It isn't CHEATING in actual football games, like your head coach who was trying to impede someone's route to the endzone.

The Pittsburgh Cheaters.

 

[groganbootleg]

:noidea:

Probably because I understand that "fair", as you're using it, is just code for "We got screwed, so everyone should get screwed", and isn't really about 'fair', at all.

No, fair is about applying the same standard to situations as they arise. Its about consistency. If you want to define the penalty as "screwing" teams, thats on you. I just want the penalties to be applied the same to everyone.

Your position is that we should apply punishments differently for different teams. In your world the Pats would get penalized 20 yards for holding while the Steelers would only get 10 because 20 was just too much. Goodell set the precedent twice with the Pats and Saints and needs to apply it the same here. I thought the penalty to the Saints was way over the top, but that was what they felt was appropriate.

 

[PATS16N0]

Screw that. The Pittsburgh Cheaters losing a draft pick for cheating would be sweet freaking karma after all their BS for the last seven years.

Dock them a 1st, Roge'!

 

[Deus Irae]

No, fair is about applying the same standard to situations as they arise. Its about consistency. If you want to define the penalty as "screwing" teams, thats on you. I just want the penalties to be applied the same to everyone.

Your position is that we should apply punishments differently for different teams. In your world the Pats would get penalized 20 yards for holding while the Steelers would only get 10 because 20 was just too much. Goodell set the precedent twice with the Pats and Saints and needs to apply it the same here. I thought the penalty to the Saints was way over the top, but that was what they felt was appropriate.

In my world, as you put it, I don't want the NFL to start calling face guarding a penalty again just because the officials screwed up and called it in the 2006 AFCCG. In your world, you think every other team deserves to get face guarding calls because it was erroneously called on the Patriots.

My position is that using a bad punishment as a baseline for the new normal is really stupid. Your position is that you don't care that "fair" is a subjective term, subject to abuse by people like yourself, because you choose to use "fair" as a means to screw over everyone else just because you feel you got screwed over.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Yep it should be a speedy process because a camera caught him doing it.

Wow lol that angle should put to rest all the questions of intent. Looks like he clearly takes a long stride towards the field of play at the very beginning.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Equating what Tomlin did in the heat of the moment in a game in which they still lost and Jacoby was probably going to get caught by Cortez anyway to videotaping signals for what very well could have been 7 seasons is silly.

The Saints lost multiple second round picks in their "Bountygate" scandal. Now, it's debatable whether or not they would have lost a first round pick if they had one that year, but the logic still holds: does what Tomlin did warrant the loss of a first round pick over the intent to injure players?

The consistency argument is a poor one.

Hi! Welcome to following NFL football!
I'll help you learn some NFL history.
Back in 2006 Goodell sent out a memo to all teams because he was concerned with the ongoing practice of teams taping each other for whatever reasons he had. This was NOT outlawed prior to the memo and several coaches (q.v. Jimmy Johnson) said they did it and it was widespread. But Johnson et. al. said it was of very little value. Goodell's memo limited where you could place cameras, outlawing cameras directly across from the opposing team's bench for example.

Belichick decided to be too cute with his interpretation of the memo, deciding in his mind that it meant you could tape as long as you did not use those tapes during the game in progress. Goodell the new commissioner in town was judge & jury and decided to show his authority. My opinion is that he wildly over reacted with the punishment possibly because BB showed disdain and lack of respect to the new boss. Note that Denver only lost 2 far lower picks because of 2 years of salary cap violations. These were important violations that resulted in them retaining key veterans who would have been cut and thus winning their 2 rings.

The media not being blind to a good ratings opportunity ran with this big time. Goodell compounded his folly when somehow, never found out how, his wife's Fox TV network got hold of some tapes and showed them on TV. After that he had all the tapes summoned from the Patriots destroyed.

Hope this summary helps you with the history of your sport.

 

[groganbootleg]

In my world, as you put it, I don't want the NFL to start calling face guarding a penalty again just because the officials screwed up and called it in the 2006 AFCCG. In your world, you think every other team deserves to get face guarding calls because it was erroneously called on the Patriots.

My position is that using a bad punishment as a baseline for the new normal is really stupid. Your position is that you don't care that "fair" is a subjective term, subject to abuse by people like yourself, because you choose to use "fair" as a means to screw over everyone else just because you feel you got screwed over.

Oh wow, I'm abusing the term "fair" now. You are a piece of work and one of the best trolls I have ever encountered. Congrats to you sir.

 

[PATS16N0]

Hi! Welcome to following NFL football!
I'll help you learn some NFL history.
Back in 2006 Goodell sent out a memo to all teams because he was concerned with the ongoing practice of teams taping each other for whatever reasons he had. This was NOT outlawed prior to the memo and several coaches (q.v. Jimmy Johnson) said they did it and it was widespread. But Johnson et. al. said it was of very little value. Goodell's memo limited where you could place cameras, outlawing cameras directly across from the opposing team's bench for example.

Belichick decided to be too cute with his interpretation of the memo, deciding in his mind that it meant you could tape as long as you did not use those tapes during the game in progress. Goodell the new commissioner in town was judge & jury and decided to show his authority. My opinion is that he wildly over reacted with the punishment possibly because BB showed disdain and lack of respect to the new boss. Note that Denver only lost 2 far lower picks because of 2 years of salary cap violations. These were important violations that resulted in them retaining key veterans who would have been cut and thus winning their 2 rings.

The media not being blind to a good ratings opportunity ran with this big time. Goodell compounded his folly when somehow, never found out how, his wife's Fox TV network got hold of some tapes and showed them on TV. After that he had all the tapes summoned from the Patriots destroyed.

Hope this summary helps you with the history of your sport.

The only part you forgot is the chapter where disingenuous Steeler fans, bitter about the AFC Championships and jealous of our success, did nearly as much as the media to perpetuate the myth that we had "secret cheater knowledge" of every single opposing play for 6 years, allowing us to call rock to everyone's scissors and paper to everyone's rock, tainting every last one of our wins and championships.

Dock 'em a 1st.

 

[Sticky Caulk]

The Pittsburgh Cheaters haven't won a Super Bowl since they were caught cheating. I believe I will have to use this line (over and over again) when speaking to Steelers fans next time New England is in Pittsburgh.

 

[Deus Irae]

Oh wow, I'm abusing the term "fair" now. You are a piece of work and one of the best trolls I have ever encountered. Congrats to you sir.

For crying out loud....

"Fair", as it's being used here, is a subjective term. To take it out of this specific event, one can look to politics.

One political party may argue, for example, that it's "fair" that wealthy people pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes, while another party might argue that paying a higher percentage is actually unfair, and note that paying the same percentage would still mean that the wealthy person was paying more overall, due to the income discrepancy.

You are using "fair" in a similar manner, saying that it's "Fair" that other teams have to deal with overly harsh punishments because the Patriots did, when one could (and I'd argue should) argue that it's not fair for everyone to be punished overly harshly just because the punisher screwed up in the past. The fact that you resorted to a completely erroneious comparison with penalty yardage should have clued you in to the probem with your argument.


It's not about being "fair" to everyone, since that ship has already sailed. It's about the punishments being appropriate for the misdeeds.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The punishment for Tomlin should be substantive. He's on the Competition Committee and is a very visible face of the NFL to both owners and the viewing public. A fine is not nearly enough.

The precedent for draft pick loss was set by the prior Comissioner with Denver's loss of picks being the notable example. One could argue that Denver's offense was a team offense vs Tomlin's as an individual but corporations (teams) are impacted when their CEOs (Head Coaches) do wrong. Losing draft picks impacts a team far more than losing money, something some owners have in large supply.

I do not know what's appropriate for his misdeeds here and am willing to read some rational arguments.

 

[PATS16N0]

The Pittsburgh Cheaters haven't won a Super Bowl since they were caught cheating. I believe I will have to use this line (over and over again) when speaking to Steelers fans next time New England is in Pittsburgh.

Pittsburgh*

 

[Gumby]

I asked you before for proof of that allegation that your idiotic fan base likes to freely throw around earlier in the thread and you conveniently vanished.

We were found in violation of league rules for having a camera man at a Jets practice standing for everyone to see. That isn't cheating. It's a technicality. It's being in violation of league rules. It isn't CHEATING in actual football games, like your head coach who was trying to impede someone's route to the endzone.

The Pittsburgh Cheaters.

NO. NO. NO. cameraman WAS at a GAME. Not at a practice. Patriots were never ever accused (except by some idiot (marshall faulk) rams ) or intimated of taping practices of other teams.

Are you a troll trying to perpetuate some myth while pretending to be a Patriots fan -- or just a newbie with too quick of a typing trigger finger.

If you are going to post on 'CAMERA-GATE', please review the post before you hit submit. it still gets enough BS passed around by teh haters.... we dont need it from our friends.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Yes, it was at a game. An important distinction vs false claims of taping practices by a Herald writer that were later publicly retracted.

 

[PATS16N0]

NO. NO. NO. cameraman WAS at a GAME. Not at a practice. Patriots were never ever accused (except by some idiot (marshall faulk) rams ) or intimated of taping practices of other teams.

Are you a troll trying to perpetuate some myth while pretending to be a Patriots fan -- or just a newbie with too quick of a typing trigger finger.

If you are going to post on 'CAMERA-GATE', please review the post before you hit submit. it still gets enough BS passed around by teh haters.... we dont need it from our friends.

Really? I always thought it was at a practice. At a game is even less an issue. lol.