Special Teamers - which ones and how many make the roster?

[mgteich]

I have SLATER, WHITE and MORRIS in special team positions on the 53-man roster, basically bringing back three of the top special teamers from last year. As of now, the only player with a special teams tackle from 2010 who will not return is Page (not an issue since Sergio Brown is his replacement, as he was late last year).

Other posters substitute Ihedigbo, Koutouvides, Tate, Smith, and/or Mills. Obviously, the open question is question is who of these are upgrades to our incumbants.
What say you all?

BOTTOM LINE
-------------
It seems that we have an opportunity for personnel upgrades, but at minimum we have last year's unit to bring back.

 

[patsfan13]

Re: Special Teamers

With the KO's being devalued 3 players + the 2 specialist seems like a lot. Morris adds value as a RB, Slater has shown more as a WR. IMO ST's specialist will have to add some value as a player to earn a roster spot due to the rule changes.

 

[Sciz]

Re: Special Teamers

I expect Arrington's ST role to increase now that he's not going to be on every-down defense duty.

 

[spacecrime]

Re: Special Teamers

I've always preferred STers who could play a position in a pinch, although I cannot see why Sammy Morris rates a spot. His ST contributions are easily matched by half the team, and I'd rather see his roster spot go to an extra Oline or Dline guy.

 

[Fencer]

Re: Special Teamers

Morris does have an advantage in that if he's actually around and active on game day, he projects to a few reps per game on 3rd down.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Re: Special Teamers

I expect Arrington's ST role to increase now that he's not going to be on every-down defense duty.

+1. He was a good jammer back in 09 when he played full time there.

 

[Fencer]

Re: Special Teamers

White and Koutouvides are the same age (30). But Koutouvides has a couple of "talent" indicators in his favor -- taken in the 4th round vs. UDFA, and once given a $7.5 million 3-year contract, which suggests somebody once thought he could actually play LB.

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Re: Special Teamers

White and Koutouvides are the same age (30). But Koutouvides has a couple of "talent" indicators in his favor -- taken in the 4th round vs. UDFA, and once given a $7.5 million 3-year contract, which suggests somebody once thought he could actually play LB.

I know White was a backup 4-3 Wolb with the Eagles. What spot did Kout play with Tampa?

 

[Mark Morse]

Re: Special Teamers

I've always preferred STers who could play a position in a pinch, although I cannot see why Sammy Morris rates a spot. His ST contributions are easily matched by half the team, and I'd rather see his roster spot go to an extra Oline or Dline guy.

Morris has been the Fullback in every short yardage situation this pre-season. That along with his ST capabilities and leadership with the rookies is what will keep him on the team.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Special Teamers

Connolly is one alternative to Morris, but Connolly is the starting RG and not available as a fullback. I believe that Morris is also on all the special team units. He is also our #5 tackler on special teams, not bad for a blocker.

So, perhaps thee correct analysis is that we need a fullback who plays on the special teams unit as as the 5th RB or 4th TE. Then, we are left with the "normal" two special-teams only players.

Morris has been the Fullback in every short yardage situation this pre-season. That along with his ST capabilities and leadership with the rookies is what will keep him on the team.

 

[NEPatriot]

Re: Special Teamers

Could Dowling take Slater's gunner spot?

 

[Fencer]

Re: Special Teamers

Morris has been the Fullback in every short yardage situation this pre-season. That along with his ST capabilities and leadership with the rookies is what will keep him on the team.

Hmm. The pro-Morris argument is getting pretty persuasive ...

 

[patchick]

Re: Special Teamers

Hmm. The pro-Morris argument is getting pretty persuasive ...

I'm definitely persuaded by the argument for Morris...eventually. But I can still picture him as a cutdown day casualty who keeps his locker. He doesn't have to clear waivers, isn't likely to be lured away by another team, and doing without him for a week or so could protect a young player during the heavy roster churn days.

 

[karmakgb]

Re: Special Teamers

Could Dowling take Slater's gunner spot?

Isn't it obvious? Devin McCourty is going to take the gunner spot. He's only going to be a special teamer for us anyways. :bricks:

/2010 off

 

[Wilfork#75]

Re: Special Teamers

I've always preferred STers who could play a position in a pinch, although I cannot see why Sammy Morris rates a spot. His ST contributions are easily matched by half the team, and I'd rather see his roster spot go to an extra Oline or Dline guy.

I disagree with this. I think Morris is easily our most underrated STer. He isn't just a solid kick coverage guy, but he is also our best ST blocker. When you look at Brandon Tate's early season kick return success, a lot can be attributed to key blocks by Morris, especially in the first Miami game.

I know most people expect the rule changes to greatly reduce the importance of the kickoff return game, but what if it doesn't? What if instead of kicking touchbacks teams put the ball high and just short of the goal line and try to pin teams inside the 10. This would increase the importance of the kick return game, especially the blocking, when you could potentially lose 10 yards in starting position each return.

When you add Morris' special teams skills, his ability to play fullback, third down back and his leadership, I don't think we should or will see him cut.

 

[Gumby]

Re: Special Teamers

what if it doesn't? What if instead of kicking touchbacks teams put the ball high and just short of the goal line and try to pin teams inside the 10.

Now that is an interesting thought. Good idea.

Maybe that is why Ghost has been held off from doing KOs in preseason. not to protect his leg - but to protect the strategy!!!

 

[bagwell368]

Re: Special Teamers

I've always preferred STers who could play a position in a pinch, although I cannot see why Sammy Morris rates a spot. His ST contributions are easily matched by half the team, and I'd rather see his roster spot go to an extra Oline or Dline guy.

Thank you.

Morris Carries per game per year:

14.2
12.0
06.1
01.3 (and that from an inferior RB collection then we have now)

He found use as a FB and ST the last few years, but his value as a RB with the crew we have this year is either negligible or zero. His value as a FB is liable to be trumped (soon or now) by one of the new TE's (or a back up OL or DL) vying for a job. He might have the brains to be a good ST, but what about the wheels? Obviously blocking takes less then other ST jobs, but his future here beyond 2011 is nil.

With murderous choices to be made at TE, WR, and RB why do we want to suck up a roster spot on this player? If we cut him at cut down what will happen? Is some team going to jump on him? No. But there are other guys we would cut that would be swarmed over. Let him be one of those shadow guys that we can call on later in the year in case of injury - he warrants (outside of his ST role and a small handful of plays as a FB) no more consideration than that. Surely he has no chance to make the 2012 team, but some of the guys cut here could easily do so.

Also, some of the players that could be kept would cost us less then Morris.

Morris raus!

 

[NEPatriot]

Re: Special Teamers

Now that is an interesting thought. Good idea.

Maybe that is why Ghost has been held off from doing KOs in preseason. not to protect his leg - but to protect the strategy!!!

From what I've seen in preseason, returners are getting more of a running start even if they are in the end zone. This might not turn out the way the rules committee thought.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Re: Special Teamers

I'm definitely persuaded by the argument for Morris...eventually. But I can still picture him as a cutdown day casualty who keeps his locker. He doesn't have to clear waivers, isn't likely to be lured away by another team, and doing without him for a week or so could protect a young player during the heavy roster churn days.

I agree with the later..... Morris is a perfect shadow roster guy. Why expose a younger guy during the wholesale swap market that is cut-dow day. Morris isn't going anywhere but here, so it's a good strategy.

I still see Ihedigbo getting a roster spot.... He blows in coverage, but he's is a real STs thumper and playmaker. It'll be interesting to see him play Saturday. It'll tell us a lot more.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Special Teamers

What we seem to be saying (as we have all along) is that the critical roster is the Game 3 Roster rather than the Game 1 Roster. There are often changes after the final cut. Also, afte Game 1, veteran salaries are no longer guaranteed (if this is in the new CBA asin the old).

I agree that Morris can be kept off the Game 1 roster, with the idea of adding him after a game or two.

I'm definitely persuaded by the argument for Morris...eventually. But I can still picture him as a cutdown day casualty who keeps his locker. He doesn't have to clear waivers, isn't likely to be lured away by another team, and doing without him for a week or so could protect a young player during the heavy roster churn days.