Source: Aqib Talib wants top-of-the-market deal

[Nunchucks]

I'm saying that your argument sucked. You didn't actually define "mortgage your future", but you mentioned appearances in the AFCCG and SB. I pointed to a team that's missed the playoffs 4 times, post-2004, but who's results I'd much rather have than what I've seen from the Patriots.

Your response "But did they mortgage the future?" when they've have to make tough moves to get under the cap the past couple of seasons, and when people here were talking about overpaying Sanders last year because the Steelers would probably not have been able to match due to their cap situation, is funny stuff, though.

I suspect that most believe believe that "mortgage future" means having a fire sale the next year because of all the high price players on the roster.

Sure, all teams have to do cap maintenance, even the Patriots.

Besides, the last SB the steelers won was in 2009, so what does 2009 have to do with 2013?

You brought the steelers up as a team you would like the Patriots to emulate, yet they had not mortgaged their future to win those two superbowls and in fact have only run into cap issues last year or so...and coincidentally sucked the last 2 years.

 

[Big-T]

Besides, the last SB the Patriots won was in 2009

Huh, guess I slept through that one!

 

[Nunchucks]

Huh, guess I slept through that one!

HA! must be time for some coffee

 

[TomNGisele]

How, precisely do the Patriots do that?

These kinds of posts make little sense without specifics as to the players, their contract terms and the people that have to be released to make room for these new guys under the 2014 cap.

The Patriots are somewhere in the range of $12 million under the cap with Talib, Edelman and Blount unsigned and Wilfork looming as an $11 million cap hit. You need to leave about $8 million un-spent to pay for rookie deals and to have $4 million available during the season for street free agent signings due to injuries.

So what risk would you take that would improve the Patriots from a team that's been to one Super Bowl and two AFC Championship games in the past three years?

Clearly they've got some work to do.

Vince needs to be restructured or cut. Wilson will be cut. The fat D lineman they traded for that I can't spell... A few other restructures and cuts.. You've seen Miguel's thread right?

Resign Talib resign Edleman. Pick up A decent veteran WR.. Jones? Nicks? Maybe?

Basically I just want them to PAY proven Patriots. I don't need big named FAs. Keep what's working and add a piece or two

 

[Deus Irae]

I suspect that most believe believe that "mortgage future" means having a fire sale the next year because of all the high price players on the roster.

No

Sure, all teams have to do cap maintenance, even the Patriots.

So you concede that you have no point?

Besides, the last SB the steelers won was in 2009, so what does 2009 have to do with 2013?

I have to assume you're kidding here. The alternative is that you're either trolling or clueless.

You brought the steelers up as a team you would like the Patriots to emulate, yet they had not mortgaged their future to win those two superbowls and in fact have only run into cap issues last year or so...and coincidentally sucked the last 2 years.

And, again, you didn't define "mortgaged their future". You pointed to all the Patriots playoff appearances, particularly the AFCCG and SB appearances. I pointed to a team that had missed the playoffs 4 times and still has had a better post-2004 run than the Patriots.


Again, your argument sucked.

 

[chasa]

I have to assume you're kidding here. The alternative is that you're either trolling or clueless.

I think the only thing the patriots need to emulate from the steelers since 2004, is get lucky with a couple of defensive players, and play a team with a ****ty defense in the superbowl.

 

[Nunchucks]

No



So you concede that you have no point?



I have to assume you're kidding here. The alternative is that you're either trolling or clueless.




And, again, you didn't define "mortgaged their future". You pointed to all the Patriots playoff appearances, particularly the AFCCG and SB appearances. I pointed to a team that had missed the playoffs 4 times and still has had a better post-2004 run than the Patriots.


Again, your argument sucked.

Saying it sucked is not actually proving it did.. your argument sucks.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

NO Doubt About It, Talib when healthy, 'WHEN' bein key word here changes WHOLE complexion of our DEF and opens up everything to Man2Man, Zone, Pass Rushes Blitzes Etc Etc Etc and makes us a Bonafide Championship Defense and when he is out our DEF becomes like, well GARBAGE!

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

Finnigan was release from STL..another CB out there

 

[Deus Irae]

Saying it sucked is not actually proving it did.. your argument sucks.

You made the argument. I responded to it. You seem to be struggling with both your argument and your comprehension in this thread. It'd probably be best for you if you just quit while you're already way behind.

First rule of holes

 

[TomNGisele]

There is one thing more certain than the defense sucking when Talib gets hurt and can't play.

The defense sucking without Talib because he's in Denver or somewhere else.

Unless you think you can successfully replace Talibs production with another CB, the risk of not having him at all is way greater than signing him at hoping for health

 

[PittPatriot]

A pass rush can make a lot of CBs look good. Use that money on a DT/DE that can get to the QB.

The pass rush can be consistently beaten by smart QB's who get rid of the ball fast. Of course they play off each other...but I think schemes and having great line backers can help with the pass rush. Our defensive backfield would need LT and Tippett on each side to make them look good.

 

[strngplyr]

Finnigan was release from STL..another CB out there

Finnegan was released, and walked away from his favorite coach in the NFL, because he wouldn't accept less than the 10m he was making, coming off of an atrocious year.

He's also a headcase.

 

[TomNGisele]

And besides, it would be easier and make more sense to keep the defensive back field strong/make it stronger than to magically have an elite pass rush. Where the hell are we going for that? It would take at least 2 key free agents.

All we need for the DB is to resign one of our own and IMO bring in a solid not flashy safety

 

[Kontradiction]

And besides, it would be easier and make more sense to keep the defensive back field strong/make it stronger than to magically have an elite pass rush. Where the hell are we going for that? It would take at least 2 key free agents.

All we need for the DB is to resign one of our own and IMO bring in a solid not flashy safety

It depends on what "top of the market" deal means, though. Is Talib looking to be paid as the top, or one of the top CB's in the NFL? If so, we may be looking at over $10M per with more guaranteed money than what Grimes got. If that's the case, the Pats can make other moves (such as Verner or Davis) while adding a top flight safety or DE like Ward or Johnson/Allen. I would take the latter over the former, if that were the case.

 

[kennyb]

I think he's as good as gone.

So where do the Pats spend their 15M or so in FA money (once they make the necessary cuts)?

Edelman 4M or so
not sure where else.

 

[strngplyr]

I think he's as good as gone.

So where do the Pats spend their 15M or so in FA money (once they make the necessary cuts)?

Edelman 4M or so
not sure where else.

You need to save plenty for rookies and we've carried several million over into the next season quite often iirc.

Also, average yearly value and cap hits are 2 different things. Can easily sign more than 15m worth of annual salaries and fit it into this years cap by working the contracts that way. Could also have WELL over 15m by making a few internal moves.

That said, I don't expect much to happen this year, though I'd love to address the DL through both FA and the draft as it is pretty deep in both this year.

Not often that guys like Tuck, Joseph, Bennet, Johnson, Allen, A.Jones, Houston, Melton Bryant, etc. all hit the market at the same time, coupled with a strong interior DL draft, we can greatly improve the front 4 this year.

My ideal FA period would be to sign Edelman, Talib (or "equivalent"), and 1 DE and 1 DT from the names mentioned as they fit (scheme/price). Save the rest to roll over + rookies, the usual vet FA signings only count ~4-500k against the cap as well as they just push someone out of the top 51 and assume that place (not a cap expert by ANY standard but I believe that is how it works, no?).

 

[TomNGisele]

It depends on what "top of the market" deal means, though. Is Talib looking to be paid as the top, or one of the top CB's in the NFL? If so, we may be looking at over $10M per with more guaranteed money than what Grimes got. If that's the case, the Pats can make other moves (such as Verner or Davis) while adding a top flight safety or DE like Ward or Johnson/Allen. I would take the latter over the former, if that were the case.

That's fair. Talib could price his way out of NE. But the point is he then needs to be replaced. Not by Dennard, not by Ryan, not by Arrington. Considering Talib is a free agent, he's no longer a Patriot as of now. So I'll say this... The #1 corner is not on the roster right now. If he is, yikes.

 

[Mack Herron]

It depends on what "top of the market" deal means, though. Is Talib looking to be paid as the top, or one of the top CB's in the NFL? If so, we may be looking at over $10M per with more guaranteed money than what Grimes got. If that's the case, the Pats can make other moves (such as Verner or Davis) while adding a top flight safety or DE like Ward or Johnson/Allen. I would take the latter over the former, if that were the case.

It is not just what the player is looking for though (generally as much as he can get). Nor is it solely about the value the team places on the player. The team can place a reasonable value and still lose the player to another team for similar money (as we saw with Welker). Negotiation is a complex strategy that includes but is not limited to the money.

 

[goheels22002]

Finnigan was release from STL..another CB out there

That is an interesting cut. Cortland Finnegan is another CB with injury issues in 2013. He's not a big corner like Talib, so he's not a perfect match.

Talib, at 28-years-old, faces an interesting market with his chronic hip injury. He's a top-dollar free agent, with a big risk attached. So far, he hasn't proven to be reliable at the end of the season. So what are you buying?

There's a lot of kvetching about losing the AFCC the last two years. One thing was consistent - neither Gronkowski or Talib contributed due to injury.

The more I look at this situation, I think the Patriots are doing the right thing by letting Talib test the market. By all appearances, Talib has been happy in New England, and he's made the playoffs twice. Unless a major contender offers him a great long-term deal, he could be back.

The Welker situation was instructive. The money was never as big as predicted, and if it weren't for the odd relationship between Welker and Belichick, he would have returned. This could be similar, but the difference is there is no sign of a strain between Talib and the team or coaching staff.