Some more tidbits on Barwin

[maverick4]

Or as mav would put it, he's overrated and no better than a 4th round pick.

Yet more distortion. No, I think he's a low second rounder, which is what most ratings had him at before all the non-football events came up, and adequately captures his potential, upside, and factors in his one good year. I also don't think it's appropriate to think we'd be lucky to have him "fall" to us at #23 overall, especially when there was a very similar player (Trevor Scott) drafted last year who went in the 6th round.

 

[mayoclinic]

Lucky? Barwin does seem to be a good human being no doubt, but if there's one thing Barwin and his family are world class at, it's marketing/branding and public relations.

mayo you yourself said on page 1 that he's raw on pass rushing techniques. Add that to the fact that he's not stout against the run either. A 1st rounder on a raw high potential project who needs to improve both pass rush and run defense?

Unlike Clay Matthews, Brian Cushing, Rey Maualuga or James Laurinaitis, who have had no hype or PR machine behind them whatsoever.

Sorry Mav, but the idea of Barwin and his family as "world class" public relations wizards is laughable. The kid is obviously smart and is playing to his talents and to his audience, but we'd all be lambasting him for a moron if he didn't.

I'll stand by my statements. Yes, he is raw. Yes, he can develop his game in several facets - what prospect couldn't? But I think that we would be fortunate to get a prospect of his caliber at 23. As Patchick has documented elsewhere, 3-4 OLB prospects with his kind of athleticism don't last to the 20's. And with the amount of attention he is getting right now, he could quite possibly go before 23. So I would consider us lucky to get him, and I certainly wouldn't wait until 34.

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

Lucky? Barwin does seem to be a good human being no doubt, but if there's one thing Barwin and his family are world class at, it's marketing/branding and public relations.

mayo you yourself said on page 1 that he's raw on pass rushing techniques. Add that to the fact that he's not stout against the run either. A 1st rounder on a raw high potential project who needs to improve both pass rush and run defense?

He registered 53 tackles (27 solo) and led the Big East Conference -- also ranked seventh in the nation -- with 12.0 quarterback sacks, breaking the NCAA major college record for most sacks by a player in his first season on defense. He paced the team and ranked second in the league with 17.0 stops for losses, led the Bearcats and Big East with 20 QB pressures and blocked three kicks while also catching one pass for a 1-yard score.

If you call this raw on pass rushing technique then I cannot wait untill BB Grooms this kid. Seventh in the nation in sacks in his first year trying to rush a QB?? and people think Maybin's one good year is worth a shot in the first?? The more I look at this kid the more I like him.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Yet more distortion. No, I think he's a low second rounder, which is what most ratings had him at before all the non-football events came up, and adequately captures his potential, upside, and factors in his one good year. I also don't think it's appropriate to think we'd be lucky to have him "fall" to us at #23 overall, especially when there was a very similar player (Trevor Scott) drafted last year who went in the 6th round.

distortion: the act of distorting; to twist out of the true meaning or proportion.

quote: to repeat a passage from especially in substantiation or illustration.

Barwin had a great senior year but is no elite player at any position. By most accounts he is a great physical talent but super raw at DE, OLB, and TE, and on defense is bad at stopping the run or holding his position.

The last time we drafted a very smart, high motor, athletic freak with raw skills was Ben Watson, and that hasn't panned out nearly as well as I would have liked for a 1st round pick.

I would like to draft a proven football player with our Day 1 picks. It takes a ton of reps and experience to learn how to play intricate pro football, you can't just be a physical freak and learn how to play in a year or two.

I think Barwin is good value after the 3rd round, and is only shooting up the draft boards because he smartly compared himself to Vrabel. In my opinion he is nothing like Vrabel. Pre-injury Vrabel was a stud against the run, a great timely pass rusher, not to mention one of the smartest football players Belichick ever coached. Barwin plays like Beisel against the run, is a good pass rusher, but is super raw and inexperienced.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

He registered 53 tackles (27 solo) and led the Big East Conference -- also ranked seventh in the nation -- with 12.0 quarterback sacks, breaking the NCAA major college record for most sacks by a player in his first season on defense. He paced the team and ranked second in the league with 17.0 stops for losses, led the Bearcats and Big East with 20 QB pressures and blocked three kicks while also catching one pass for a 1-yard score.

If you call this raw on pass rushing technique then I cannot wait untill BB Grooms this kid. Seventh in the nation in sacks in his first year trying to rush a QB?? and people think Maybin's one good year is worth a shot in the first?? The more I look at this kid the more I like him.

Where did you find the QB pressure data?

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

Where did you find the QB pressure data?

I copied it word for word from CBS Sports, NFLDRAFTSCOUT.COM, do not tell any of my Profs from university I plagiarized but the second part is mine. I am always looking for new "tidbits on him" and all draft players.

Here is the link:

Connor Barwin, Cincinnati, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com Football

It is found at the bottom of his overview but does not site a source so I guess it would be themselves.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I copied it word for word from CBS Sports, NFLDRAFTSCOUT.COM, do not tell any of my Profs from university I plagiarized but the second part is mine. I am always looking for new "tidbits on him" and all draft players.

Here is the link:

Connor Barwin, Cincinnati, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com Football

It is found at the bottom of his overview but does not site a source so I guess it would be themselves.

Cool, they've updated his profile since the last time I checked it out...which may be why he continues to slowly creep up their rankings, he's up to #31 overall now.

Just remember, attribution trumps plagiarization (most days anyway).

 

[tombonneau]

I can't wait for the draft to be over so I can stop hearing about this guy.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

I can't wait for the draft to be over so I can stop hearing about this guy.

Don't count on it. Some of us here still aren't over losing out on another LB whose last name begins with a "B" . . . back in 2007.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Don't count on it. Some of us here still aren't over losing out on another LB whose last name begins with a "B" . . . back in 2007.

:enranged:

 

[CanadianPat'sFan]

I can't wait for the draft to be over so I can stop hearing about this guy.

You just wait for after the draft when BB has him

Box,

"Just remember, attribution trumps plagiarization (most days anyway)." It got me though university

 

[maverick4]

If you call this raw on pass rushing technique then I cannot wait untill BB Grooms this kid. Seventh in the nation in sacks in his first year trying to rush a QB?? and people think Maybin's one good year is worth a shot in the first?? The more I look at this kid the more I like him.

If you love the 7th ranking in the nation, then you must have REALLY loved Tedy Bruschi coming into his draft. He had 52 total sacks, tops all time at the time for sacks. Bruschi was only a 3rd rounder.

 

[bucky]

Look, the guy is a DE sack machine, in Ohio, who can also play tight end, and who looks like he could be Mike Vrabel's baby brother. Are they the same player? Not hardly. But the surface resemblances are so obvious the comparison is inevitable.

I haven't seen Barwin except that lousy mugshot of him on all the web sites. So I can't judge whether he actually looks like Vrabel, but regardless I doubt it's the reason people are comparing them.

The bottom line is you should compare players coming out of college to players when they were prospects. As such, you're comparing Barwin to a guy who played for Ohio St, didn't play either TE or LB in college, was drafted in the 3rd round and became a starter in his 5th year in the NFL.

But don't compare him to the guy who played for the Patriots because that's not fair to either of them.

And while I'm on a rampage, why is every prospect compared to a successful NFL player? Why is each draft pick Mike Vrabel, or Shawn Merriman. Why isn't anyone compared to Mike Mamula?

 

[maverick4]

distortion: the act of distorting; to twist out of the true meaning or proportion.

I said he would be GOOD VALUE at that spot, how does that mean that's where I think he should be ranked?

Yet more DISTORTION from you, to twist in a biased way to further support a false premise.

 

[maverick4]

As such, you're comparing Barwin to a guy who played for Ohio St, didn't play either TE or LB in college, was drafted in the 3rd round and became a starter in his 5th year in the NFL.

Barwin is closer in comparison to Trevor Scott. Trevor Scott played TE his first two college years, then DE his last two college years with great production (19 sacks). He measured off the charts at the combine, had high potential, and ended up as a backup situational player his first year in the NFL this past year with the Raiders.

The biggest difference is Scott and Barwin went into the draft with wildly different rankings. Barwin is about a 2nd rounder on most rankings, whereas Scott was projected much much lower.

The reason I think Barwin is over-rated as a 1st rounder, is the list of NFL defenders who became good or great with just 1 total year of defensive experience in college, is almost non-existent.

 

[mayoclinic]

Maybe at this point we should just merge this thread with the "Connor Barwin is Overrated" thread - they seem to have converged.

 

[patchick]

The bottom line is you should compare players coming out of college to players when they were prospects.

Why? Most draft writers prefer to compare a player to an NFL counterpart, because those players are familiar to fans and thus meaningful comparisons. The comparison is used to help you form an image of the player's general style, with the understanding that their actual pro career is obviously TBD. It's not much value to the audience to compare a player to, say, the 1996 Jason Taylor of Akron University.

 

[maverick4]

Maybe at this point we should just merge this thread with the "Connor Barwin is Overrated" thread - they seem to have converged.

Why? It's much more fun to keep making new threads further deluding each other into how Barwin is the next Lawrence Taylor.

 

[Revman]

I disagree about the comparison to Mayo last year. Barwin is very inexperienced at a completely different role than Mayo. Plus consider that Mayo had zero competetion to win that role,that playing time. .Barwin has no guarantee to be a great edge rusher for the Pat's. He has little experience against the big tackles he will battle each week. Mayo had experience playing in and out in the s.e.c. Mayo's speed and reaction/diagnostics we learned, are very good. Barwin is an athlete. Capeable of developing, but most likely won't earn the pt that Mayo did as a rookie. I am not against Barwin. I hope he is as ready as you believe him to be. I just have big questions about him. I really did not Mayo much either, so Barwin may be a pro bowl player in 3 years.

 

[mayoclinic]

Why? It's much more fun to keep making new threads further deluding each other into how Barwin is the next Lawrence Taylor.

But if we merge this thread into the old one, then we can all create a "new new thread".

I've never thought of Lawrence Taylor when thinking about Barwin. But, now that you mention it ...