So much for "culture change" ...

[Real fan 02]

Covington and AVP would be prudent to start taking all the interviews they can get. Can’t see the Patriots blocking them from doing so. That would be an ******* move, and RKK is not an *******.

Agreed there. Plus wouldn't it be to the organizations advantage as they wouldn't be on the hook for thier salaries??

 

[Real fan 02]

Probably need 10-12 jags to fill out the roster too. We have way too many practice squad guys and fringe roster guys so we need average guys too.

Well of the 10-12 Jags we currently have now who would you keep around??

 

[signbabybrady]

Well of the 10-12 Jags we currently have now who would you keep around??

All of them at least until cut down. A little hyperbole but we aren't in a position to thumb our noses at anyone.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

One of the first things Bill did was bring in some of "his" guys. Guys he knew he could rely on in the locker room to help build the culture. Guys like Bobby Hamilton, Otis Smith, and Anthony Pleasant. They weren't All-Pro players but they were veteran role players who Bill knew he could rely on. Add those guys into the mix with some of the players like McGinest and Bruschi who were with Bill as a DC then the message was clear and they policed the locker room until Brady became Brady.

Another of the many issues with Mayo was that he didn't have those circle the wagons type guys because he had no experience anywhere outside of here.

Right, and Parcells did the same as Belichick - we had so many ex-Giants in the early 1990s it helped convert many of the remaining “New England is Giant country folks.” (For the younger folks, NE hadn’t had a NFL team in the 1950s, and many felt the AFL and subsequent AFC was inferior to the NFL). Those who remained died off over the last 30 years.

Given everything about Vrabel seems similar to Belichick and Parcells’ styles, I imagine if he’s hired we’ll have a lot of ex-Titans on the team next year.

 

[TommyD4207]

All of them at least until cut down. A little hyperbole but we aren't in a position to thumb out noses at anyone.

Considering half the roster would struggle to make a CFL team - I'd question that.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Well…Peppers had an issue with the law. That may not sit well with some players. He’s been on then team just 3 years and hasn’t had the same success as the 3 I mentioned. Henry…4 years so that’s a little longer but still hasn’t had the success as the 3 I mentioned either. IMO Henry is not the kind of guy to get in someone’s face and say “know your role”.

Henry shows it on the field and knows how to connect with every QB (Mac, Zappe, Brissette and Maye). He is the underrated star of our offense.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Henry shows it on the field and knows how to connect with every QB (Mac, Zappe, Brissette and Maye). He is the underrated star of our offense.

Star might be a strong word.

Solid player and teammate works for me.

 

[Real fan 02]

All of them at least until cut down. A little hyperbole but we aren't in a position to thumb out noses at anyone.

Absolutely. Everyone at Everyone position is up for review.

 

[mike_usagisan]

Star might be a strong word.

Solid player and teammate works for me.

He's better than any of our WRs. He's better than the running backs at catching the ball. I think we take Henry for granted because he's not Gronk.

He's not really an NFL star. But he's the best our offense can do.

 

[Real fan 02]

He's better than any of our WRs. He's better than the running backs at catching the ball. I think we take Henry for granted because he's not Gronk.

Agreed. He's our best receiving threat currently. Also a big red zone target. Henry has had a great year at the TE position

 

[signbabybrady]

Considering half the roster would struggle to make a CFL team - I'd question that.

That's where TC and the cut downs come into play. Just saying and I'll use Tavai as an example because we all are little mad at him. We might need to keep him if we wind up focusing on OL, DL, and WR. And even if we find a better LB he can then be 4th or 5th in that group and let it play out in camp.

 

[TommyD4207]

That's where TC and the cut downs come into play. Just saying and I'll use Tavai as an example because we all are little mad at him. We might need to keep him if we wind up focusing on OL, DL, and WR. And even if we find a better LB he can then be 4th or 5th in that group and let it play out in camp.

I mean, I don't know what you think you're going to see from Tavai that you haven't already seen.

One good game a month, and at least 5 terrible plays in the other three weeks. That's Jelani Tavai.

 

[signbabybrady]

I mean, I don't know what you think you're going to see from Tavai that you haven't already seen.

One good game a month, and at least 5 terrible plays in the other three weeks. That's Jelani Tavai.

Fair enough lol. Unfortunately he's still our 3rd or 4th best backer and we have too many needs on this team that we are going to probably get stuck with a few guys like this. Maybe we find enough LBs but not OL so maybe it's Lowe and instead of Tavai (even as backups). And I'd rather have the new signee or rook beat out Tavai in camp rather than some guy we sign just to fill out the 90.

 

[Water Boy]

Wow - that anonymous locker room statement sounds a lot like Henry. Because he started saying a lot about "looking in the mirror" during the season. And his demeanor certainly showed he had no faith their sideline could win games.

My first thought was Godchaux. To me it makes more sense that the player was referring to the defensive side of the ball.

 

[Froob]

I don't think he helped- need leaders at the Qb position.

You can’t be a leader without being good at the position, either

 

[Ross12]

Great clip. I do wonder if Bill’s locker rooms deteriorated in the final 5 years when he did not have strong leaders like Brady and Mcginest and Vrabel.
Locker room will only be as good as the best players?

IMO, the issues took root at QB.

In 2020 they still had solid leadership with Cam and they managed to go around .500 despite the fact that he had zero juice. They bounced back in 2021 with Mac Jones, who I imagine Bill thought would be a leader due to what he did in Alabama. A ****y leader, but a leader.

The problem was that after his playoff appearance and substitution Pro Bowl nomination in his rookie season, he got a bit of an ego. Josh McDaniels left, and Bill also assessed that Mac would do better, at least right now, with less on his plate and the center making more decisions for him. Mac got very grumpy about this and *****ed and moaned to Kraft, outside the building, etc.

For Bill to maintain and save his culture, he would have needed to be able to dump Mac. Of course, Kraft did not allow this and instead forced Bill to both keep Mac and also replace the OC with someone who could go back to the setup McDaniels was running (BOB). Of course, that failed in epic fashion because Bill was right about Mac.

I'm not saying Kraft was wrong, because if Bill got his way then that probably means that Patricia was still the OC in 2023, which is also stupid. Too much stubbornness going around in all directions. But Bill being forced to hang onto Mac definitely took the legs out from his culture starting in 2022 and furthering in 2023.

For Mayo to "fix things" he would have needed to re-establish strong veteran leaders, but instead he promoted everyone to "speak their mind" and "use their voice", even rookies who have never done a thing. It's not surprising that that didn't work.

 

[Betterthanmost]

IMO, the issues took root at QB.

In 2020 they still had solid leadership with Cam and they managed to go around .500 despite the fact that he had zero juice. They bounced back in 2021 with Mac Jones, who I imagine Bill thought would be a leader due to what he did in Alabama. A ****y leader, but a leader.

The problem was that after his playoff appearance and substitution Pro Bowl nomination in his rookie season, he got a bit of an ego. Josh McDaniels left, and Bill also assessed that Mac would do better, at least right now, with less on his plate and the center making more decisions for him. Mac got very grumpy about this and *****ed and moaned to Kraft, outside the building, etc.

For Bill to maintain and save his culture, he would have needed to be able to dump Mac. Of course, Kraft did not allow this and instead forced Bill to both keep Mac and also replace the OC with someone who could go back to the setup McDaniels was running (BOB). Of course, that failed in epic fashion because Bill was right about Mac.

I'm not saying Kraft was wrong, because if Bill got his way then that probably means that Patricia was still the OC in 2023, which is also stupid. Too much stubbornness going around in all directions. But Bill being forced to hang onto Mac definitely took the legs out from his culture starting in 2022 and furthering in 2023.

For Mayo to "fix things" he would have needed to re-establish strong veteran leaders, but instead he promoted everyone to "speak their mind" and "use their voice", even rookies who have never done a thing. It's not surprising that that didn't work.

You have nailed this! This is it. I think Bill knew Mac was not it in his first season. That Bills game where he threw for like one time told me all I needed to know about their future. They were not going to be together long.

 

[RobertWeathers]

You can’t be a leader without being good at the position, either

Unless you are Trent Dilfer lol. He BAL teammates loved him. They only needed a TD and a couple of FGs a game out of him.

 

[Ross12]

You have nailed this! This is it. I think Bill knew Mac was not it in his first season. That Bills game where he threw for like one time told me all I needed to know about their future. They were not going to be together long.

I think in 2022 Bill still thought he could win with Mac, but knew that Mac wasn't going to work long-term in the EP system because it required a lot of thinking both before and after the snap and he was susceptible to pressure which would rattle his mind. So he wanted to pivot to a system where the center took some of that off of his plate and Mac just needed to make the reads. Then perhaps after a few years of that he could build upon it. If not, he'd pivot to some other QB. However, Mac had already been "tasked" with that higher level of responsibility as a rookie (even though McDaniels was holding his hand quite a bit) and interpreted this change as a personal insult... and we go from there.

 

[Brotherblues]

My first thought was Godchaux. To me it makes more sense that the player was referring to the defensive side of the ball.

Godawful was all-in on Mayo, and Mayo was the defacto co-DC with Covington. So whatever misgivings he might have had internally, he'd never dare to voice them to a reporter even anonimously.

I wouldn't be surprised if Giardi reached out to guys who actually had tumultuous exits during the season, like Chuks and Osborne.