Should we bring in another kicker?

[TommyD4207]

I think Ghost is breathing down Ghost's neck. It's obvious there is no one better out there or bloodless BB would have already brought him in, during camp. I'm guessing BB has figured out that putting more pressure on a (pretty good) kicker who is already putting pressure on himself is not the way to go once the season starts. Just look at the new kicker, Koo (sp?) in SD/LA. He has now single-handedly lost two games for SD/LA by missing makeable FGs at the end of regulation, two weeks in a row. Believe it or not, SD/LA's coach said he's sticking with him. Why? Presumably because there's nothing better out there, and stategically you need to build up a kicker who's nervous, not make him more nervous.

While the missed XPs are maddening, this past Sunday we didn't even miss it (because NO had two FGs instead of a TD to match our TD) and Ghost more than made up for it by running out & hitting a last second FG as time expired in the 1st half. We were laughing at my house saying they should make Ghost play like that all the time, i.e. on instinct with no time to think, as that sucker sailed right down the middle of the uprights, unlike the XPs which always seem to go dangerously near (or off) the uprights.

The extra point thing is simply the new normal in the NFL. People are still programmed to think that the XP is automatic. Only 5 teams made them all a year ago, only two of those were playoff teams. Patriots ranked 17th, literally the middle of the pack.

Gostkowski's also still the best kickoff guy in the business, easily worth a point or two in its own right.

 

[Bruins29]

I wish people had perspective and cold be objective. Anyone who thinks AV has ever been a better kicker than SG is a moron. Everyone just remembers what they want to remember.

So much **** talk and selective memory here. It is sickening.

 

[TennisBallHead]

Uh, yes. Gostowski sucks. They managed to win a SB with him constantly screwing up (and good thing they were down 16 and had to go for 2 twice, imagine if numbnuts had to kick an XP in that situation).

How many times does he have to **** up before they bring in competition?

 

[PatsDeb]

Uh, yes. Gostowski sucks. They managed to win a SB with him constantly screwing up (and good thing they were down 16 and had to go for 2 twice, imagine if numbnuts had to kick an XP in that situation).

How many times does he have to **** up before they bring in competition?

Whom do you suggest they bring in for a tryout?

 

[IllegalContact]

no

 

[shmessy]

We drafted Gost and let Adam walk in 2006...basically letting a legend walk out the door for more money to draft an unknown commodity.
I still think back to the "what if"of going for it on 4th and 13 from the NYG 32 a 7-3 game.
I truly believe Adam strolls out for the kick but BB was protecting Gost.
I love Gost...he seems like a genuinely likable, hardworking person...but he is not a legend.
We let Adam go after his 10th season and Gost is in his 12th season.
Since then, Adam has earned* an extra $2.7M more than Gost... and alarmingly low figure considering this includes Gostkowski's rookie contract. That's only an extra $226,000 per year over that time.
If the decision to let Adam leave was about money, then we may have miscalculated.

* keep in mind this is earnings, not cap hit.

Let's not let facts get in the way, however.......


Adam Vinatieri: Career Stats at NFL.com
84.2% career FG, 50% of which playing for a Dome team

Stephen Gostkowski: Career Stats at NFL.com
87.3% career FG 100% of which playing for an outdoor Northeastern team

PLUS - Gost saves us a roster spot - - because Vinatieri hasn't been able to kickoff for almost a decade now.

GREAT FOOTBALL move by BB.

.


.

 

[TennisBallHead]

Other than neither of those things have ever happened what is your point?

Any sane person would know he was just throwing out generic numbers to make a point. I'm guessing you actually went and checked to see if numbnuts made a 60 and missed a 20.

 

[IllegalContact]

Any sane person would know he was just throwing out generic numbers to make a point. I'm guessing you actually went and checked to see if numbnuts made a 60 and missed a 20.

no

 

[BlacknGold77]

Any sane person would know he was just throwing out generic numbers to make a point. I'm guessing you actually went and checked to see if numbnuts made a 60 and missed a 20.

...............Vinatieri.......Ghost

20-29y......96%.............96%
30-39y......84.6%..........89.9%
40-49y......77.5%...........79.0%
50+y.........61.8%...........73.0%
XP.............98.3%..........99.1%

Are those concrete enough for you? In a dome, Adam is worse than Ghost from any distance.

 

[shmessy]

The movie version of the Patriots, when they film it, would've been better with AV as the kicker this whole time.

Exactly.

And the FOOTBALL version is better with Gost (plus the extra roster spot we didn't have to waste on a kickoff specialist and could keep the kid who won SB 49 on the team.)

.

 

[BradyFTW!]

We drafted Gost and let Adam walk in 2006...basically letting a legend walk out the door for more money to draft an unknown commodity.
I still think back to the "what if"of going for it on 4th and 13 from the NYG 32 a 7-3 game.
I truly believe Adam strolls out for the kick but BB was protecting Gost.
I love Gost...he seems like a genuinely likable, hardworking person...but he is not a legend.
We let Adam go after his 10th season and Gost is in his 12th season.
Since then, Adam has earned* an extra $2.7M more than Gost... and alarmingly low figure considering this includes Gostkowski's rookie contract. That's only an extra $226,000 per year over that time.
If the decision to let Adam leave was about money, then we may have miscalculated.

* keep in mind this is earnings, not cap hit.

I have it on pretty good authority--though I don't expect that to carry much weight--that a nontrivial factor in that decision was that the Pats valued their kicker being able to consistently drill kickoffs for touchbacks, which Vinatieri could no longer do. They didn't want their punter to have to handle kickoff duties like the Colts' does. At the time the decision was made, Vinatieri was a better pure kicker, but even then it already wasn't really an apples-to-apples comparison.

I don't say this as an adamant Gost defender, and I would've encouraged bringing in some competition in the offseason mostly because I don't see any particular downside to doing so. It's not like Gost is perfect; he's displayed some real inconsistency over the past 2 seasons, and training camp is all about competing for and earning your job anyway. But I'm fine with the decision to let Vinatieri walk a decade ago, even if he is still kicking effectively in a dome.

 

[shmessy]

Gostkowski doesn't do well with pressure so I wouldn't try motivating him with another kicker on the roster. I would however look at options in the off season. He's just not reliable enough for this team in big moments IMHO.

His misses have tended to be when there is little pressure. He's been money in crunch time.

 

[shmessy]

and, I'd say, even more importantly, who we leave OFF each of those rosters so that two kickers can be on the 53

 

[TennisBallHead]

07 - Not enough faith to try a 49 yarder
14 - 15 TDs scored by offense, no need for him
15 - Missed XP vs Den
16 - Missed XP in SB, won in spite of him

He cost them two Super Bowls

 

[Wheelman]

All I can think about is how this rule has backfired on BB. He didn't think his kicker would have missed so many extra points since. I do think Gostkowski neeeds to improve on this. I'm still trying to understand why this is happening. I mean if Justin Tucker can be rock solid, Gostkowski should be too. The only thing I can think of is the article about the pop up kicks on kickoff that is causing the problem. I hope he can fix it soon. We can't keep missing extra points.

 

[shmessy]

Uh, yes. Gostowski sucks. They managed to win a SB with him constantly screwing up (and good thing they were down 16 and had to go for 2 twice, imagine if numbnuts had to kick an XP in that situation).

How many times does he have to **** up before they bring in competition?

I get it - - You're a schtick, right? The name referencing Volin and the pic of Borges. Kinda like a take on Dikembe?

But Dikembe is witty/funny.

.

 

[BlacknGold77]

07 - Not enough faith to try a 49 yarder
14 - 15 TDs scored by offense, no need for him
15 - Missed XP vs Den
16 - Missed XP in SB, won in spite of him

He cost them two Super Bowls

...............Vinatieri.......Ghost

20-29y......96%.............96%
30-39y......84.6%..........89.9%
40-49y......77.5%...........79.0%
50+y.........61.8%...........73.0%
XP.............98.3%..........99.1%

Are those concrete enough for you? In a dome, Adam is worse than Ghost from any distance.

 

[shmessy]

...............Vinatieri.......Ghost

20-29y......96%.............96%
30-39y......84.6%..........89.9%
40-49y......77.5%...........79.0%
50+y.........61.8%...........73.0%
XP.............98.3%..........99.1%

Are those concrete enough for you? In a dome, Adam is worse than Ghost from any distance.

Don't worry about him, that guy's an act (Volin/Borges)

.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I love takes like this. People in general love to have selective memory.

"Adam had 2 SB winning kicks..." Yeah, he had one in 2003, but if he doesnt shank a 31 yarder earlier in the game, the GW kick isnt even needed

Every game comes down to a handful of plays that, had they been made, would have resulted in a different final few minutes, so your statement, while technically accurate, is, in the end, meaningless. There were throws missed by Brady, blocks missed by the O-Line, etc., etc., on each of which we could look back and argue that better execution "on that play" would have made that Kick unnecessary. Whenever any player is responsible for one of those plays, "it is what it is" and time to move on to the next play.

When the game was on the line, #4 did what he had to do. That's really all that mattered then and it's all that will matter when he's voted into Canton.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

I'll post more or less what I posted back in August when this thread was started.
As long as Bill Belichick and Joe Judge are fine with Gostkowski, then I'm fine with Gostkowski.
End of story, as far as I'm concerned.

As for the rest, comparing him to Vinatieri is unfair (for Gostkowski or any K).

#4 made four kicks that, on top of his other stats over the years, will put him into Canton, probably on the first ballot:
A 45 yard FG into the teeth of a blizzard to tie "The Tuck Game," rightly called the greatest kick under pressure in the history of the NFL. It must have been like kicking a piece of lead 45 yards into a wet gale. I still love to watch it just dive over the crossbar and die a few yards beyond. I doubt it would have been good from 47 yards...
A shorter 23 yarder to win "The Tuck Game" in OT, where Adam cleared three inches of snow from the spot.
The 48 yarder to win SB XXXVI as time expired
The 41 yarder to win SB XXXVIII with four ticks left on the clock.

You can say all you want about the game circumstances that led up to any one of those kicks and that Gostkowski never had a chance to show that he could do the same. But, Vinatieri had the chance and he made them all.