Send a tweet to Peter King about Ravens' 4th down call

[TheComeback]

No matter how good your defense is, it's hard to argue with the fact that in this league, with the rules the way they are, you have a better chance of making it on 4th and 5 with your offense than you do forcing a 3-and-out or certainly a 4-and-out.

Thank you Roger Goodell for slowly ruining the game.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

Re: Send a tweet to peter king about Raven's 4th down call

A different situation because Baltimore was actually trailing in the game at that point - a defensive stop alone wouldn't have been enough - they needed more points to win (unlike the Pats 4th and 2)

+1. The Ravens were also almost to mid field, not that that factor would have made a difference.

The thing that made me the most mad about that Colts game is how we played prevent on the drive before the Colts' game winning drive (the one with the phantom PI). We made no attempt to apply pressure, and it seemed like BB was perfectly okay with giving up the TD with, I would assume, the rationale that they weren't going to get the ball back anyway.

 

[aluminum seats]

Not sure why we'd single out Peter King, but if you weren't struck by what happened last night you're lying or not paying attention. Of course the situations weren't precisely analagous, but if Belichick hadn't gone for it, Baltimore wouldn't have. No question about it--so for a call he got blasted for, he still managed to change coaching in the NFL. Just another day at the office.

 

[Metaphors]

I meant to ask this 2 weeks ago. How would you have viewed the 4th and 2 call if everything was reversed and Caldwell for Indy went for it, in NE, using his last time out to set it up, up by 6, on his own 30 with 2 minutes left and didn't get it. Would it have made stastical sense then?

I think you know the answer to that question. You never want to leave the field in defeat with a bullet left in the chamber.

Looking at the reaction to late 4th down decisions is kind of silly. People's opinions of them are almost always aligned with the result, not the decision itself. Do you really believe there would have been over a week of Belichick bashing if the ball had been spotted correctly? Same situation. Same decision. Same play. Same result. Different spot. Completely different reaction to the decision. There would be a few people who would still angrily call him reckless. There would be a whole mess of folks calling him gutsy and a genius. Neither assessment would be accurate, but at least he followed his thinking on maximizing the chances of winning.

Probably better to look at coaches that punt on 4th down for no other reason than that is what they are expected to do. Check this:

3rd Quarter with Bears down 27-10
4-1-CHI 32 (6:20) B.Maynard punts 41 yards to MIN 27

They need 3 scores and had shown no ability to stop the Vikings up to that point. After another FG puts the game into the 4th quarter, we have:

4-7-CHI 21 (11:51) B.Maynard punts 47 yards to MIN 32

Needing 3 TDs with a defense that is on pace to give up record-setting yardage, you punt the ball to gain field position for your defense? Seriously? After giving up the inevitable touchdown, now they are faced with:

4-13-CHI 37 (5:31) B.Maynard punts 48 yards to MIN 15

Cutler was still in the game and still throwing. Why punt now? The Bears never saw the ball again and the only reason why the Vikings didn't pile on more points is that they took a knee to burn the last 2 minutes.

Lovie did what a good coach is supposed to do. Punt on 4th down, gain field position and "trust your defense". Doesn't matter if that decision totally eliminates any chance of winning. Don't do anything that could be questioned by the media.

That was just one example yesterday but every weekend is filled with games like this. Playoff teams needing wins but punting their chances away. Doormat teams needing a spark but punting their fans right in the nether regions. Nobody ever says a word. I'll take unconventional decisions that let the team keep battling versus the punt parade most teams are saddled with.

 

[aluminum seats]

I think you know the answer to that question. You never want to leave the field in defeat with a bullet left in the chamber.

Looking at the reaction to late 4th down decisions is kind of silly. People's opinions of them are almost always aligned with the result, not the decision itself. Do you really believe there would have been over a week of Belichick bashing if the ball had been spotted correctly? Same situation. Same decision. Same play. Same result. Different spot. Completely different reaction to the decision. There would be a few people who would still angrily call him reckless. There would be a whole mess of folks calling him gutsy and a genius. Neither assessment would be accurate, but at least he followed his thinking on maximizing the chances of winning.

Probably better to look at coaches that punt on 4th down for no other reason than that is what they are expected to do. Check this:

3rd Quarter with Bears down 27-10
4-1-CHI 32 (6:20) B.Maynard punts 41 yards to MIN 27

They need 3 scores and had shown no ability to stop the Vikings up to that point. After another FG puts the game into the 4th quarter, we have:

4-7-CHI 21 (11:51) B.Maynard punts 47 yards to MIN 32

Needing 3 TDs with a defense that is on pace to give up record-setting yardage, you punt the ball to gain field position for your defense? Seriously? After giving up the inevitable touchdown, now they are faced with:

4-13-CHI 37 (5:31) B.Maynard punts 48 yards to MIN 15

Cutler was still in the game and still throwing. Why punt now? The Bears never saw the ball again and the only reason why the Vikings didn't pile on more points is that they took a knee to burn the last 2 minutes.

Lovie did what a good coach is supposed to do. Punt on 4th down, gain field position and "trust your defense". Doesn't matter if that decision totally eliminates any chance of winning. Don't do anything that could be questioned by the media.

That was just one example yesterday but every weekend is filled with games like this. Playoff teams needing wins but punting their chances away. Doormat teams needing a spark but punting their fans right in the nether regions. Nobody ever says a word. I'll take unconventional decisions that let the team keep battling versus the punt parade most teams are saddled with.

Good post. I think the game last night will be indicative of a fundamental shift regarding the decision to punt. It's an intentional turnover, and we'll see a LOT more going for it in the future.

 

[RhodyPatFan]

Watching the redzone channel yesterday teams were going for 4th downs all over the place. Second quarters. Third quarters. Fourth quarters. 4th and 5's. You see it all the time on the last drive don't think I mean that. I'm talking 1 score games with a whole quarter to go. McDaniels went for it instead of kicking the FG on Thursday night and the announcers say it was a great call. No he doesn't trust his kicker talk. It was the second quarter. The broncos get stopped on 4th down and they don't get points! 3 points could have cost them the game. They make it and its a great call.

Granted different offenses and defenses. But the Titans/Cards game made me laugh. The Titans weren't doing much all game long yesterday in terms of scoring TD's. Little over two minutes left and Vince Young, VINCE YOUNG went 99 yards for a game winning TD. I don't remember the Card's play calls before they punted and what the distance was on 4th down. But they did the safe thing and punted, trusting the defense. Get a great punt to land on the 1. Trust the defense to stop Vince Young and his no name WR's who had put up to that point 13 points. Seems easy right? And what do they do. Vince made it look simple. Did they even burn a time out to go 99 yards for the game winning score?

I'll go to the grave thinking Manning with his WR core scores a TD from anywhere on the field. Watching VY run the 2 minute drill again made me realize that the game gives the offense the advantage at the end of these games. From bogus pass interference calls and defenders scared to hit a QB its a game being designed to score lots of points and get highlights to make people excited.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Send a tweet to peter king about Raven's 4th down call

It's OK to have an opinion and it's even OK if it's wrong (according to statistical probability analysis that has by now been rather widely disseminated), but do you really have to keep reminding us of it so often?

1.) What you, and the others who've decided to defend Belichick on that decision, ignore is that "statistical probability analysis" didn't show that Belichick was right. What is showed was that the percentages, looked at in a vacuum, were in his favor. Big difference.

2.) I didn't start the thread. Perhaps you could have noted the last part of my post:

Will there be fans making threads about every single 4th down call from there to eternity in an attempt to defend Belichick's blunder?

 

[TennesseePatriot]

Re: Send a tweet to peter king about Raven's 4th down call

Sure enough, one of the talking heads (Berman, maybe? Don't remember now) said Harbaugh did it because he has lots of confidence in Ray Rice. And not a peep about him not trusting the defense. You know, that Ravens famously dominating defense that had their hands full keeping a 3rd string QB in check. Surprise, surprise.

Dennis Dixon was 12/26 for a 46.2% completion rating, 145 yards, and one Touchdown. I'd say the Ravens D kept him pretty well in check.