Schefter: Asante Samuel will report next week

[NE39]

FMV means the most he could get on the OPEN market. Vasher never got on the open market b/c the bears resigned him before his contract was up. Therefore, that is a meaningless comparison.

Open market value is not a valid comparison. The Patriots own his contractual rights due to their offering a 1-year tender at an average of the top-5 salaries at the position. He isn't on a completely open market.

His choice is to play this season or not play at all, but his rights remain with the Patriots and will again next season if they choose to exercise the franchise tag.

If Samuel is blaming the Patriots for that, he is mis-directing his blame. He should bring the issue up with his Union, who collectively bargained these rules.

 

[Pats726]

Re: Asante Samuel Will Report Next Week

It is complete speculation on your part that he won't be ready for week 1. How about we wait and see how he does in week 1 before we make any judgements on how unprepared he is. If he has an INT in week 1 will stop with this nonsense?

I don't think it's speculation at all...and there are some like Felger (ugh..) who agree that he is beyond the time frame of being ready..(that point being this week and playing tonight..) While I disagree with him mostly, this makes sense. He's not in camp to play with the first unit and get a feel for that unit now as it is going into the first week. (Wk 3 being the dress rhsl for Game 1.) He's also not a player that can come in and get it all down fast quick; He may be a top corner but he is NOT a special player that can do that. Training camp DOES mean something despite so many football fans thinking it means so little.

 

[Pats726]

Re: Asante Samuel Will Report Next Week

He is not the one who decided to pay him $7.8M to show up when he is showing up. The patriots and the CBA did that. His goal is to fulfil his obligations under the CBA, which he can do in a number of ways. He's under no obligation to go "above and beyond", since in his mind the team didn't go "above and beyond" for him.

Is going "above and beyind" being ready for Game 1?? He's getting PAID top dollat for game one and he's no ready...soime may say he's stealing money NOT being ready. I think one..he's hurting himself, setting himself up for a less than stellar season..but beyond that, how professional is that? Apparently that is quite professional to many..and not any character issue.

 

[letekro]

Open market value is not a valid comparison. The Patriots own his contractual rights due to their offering a 1-year tender at an average of the top-5 salaries at the position. He isn't on a completely open market.

His choice is to play this season or not play at all, but his rights remain with the Patriots and will again next season if they choose to exercise the franchise tag.

If Samuel is blaming the Patriots for that, he is mis-directing his blame. He should bring the issue up with his Union, who collectively bargained these rules.

The question was not whether he was on the open market, but what his open market value would be.

I don't think Samuel is blaming the patriots for anything. He was negotiating, nothing more. It is his right to negotiate to be traded. Unfortunately for him (and fortunately for us), he had little leverage.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Open market value is not a valid comparison. The Patriots own his contractual rights due to their offering a 1-year tender at an average of the top-5 salaries at the position. He isn't on a completely open market.

His choice is to play this season or not play at all, but his rights remain with the Patriots and will again next season if they choose to exercise the franchise tag.

If Samuel is blaming the Patriots for that, he is mis-directing his blame. He should bring the issue up with his Union, who collectively bargained these rules.

Market value is what Samuel is eyeing, and for good reason. His contract is up. Does the Tag have an effect on his thinking? Hell yes. That's why he's (reportedly) coming in this week.

But it's quite valid, from the player point of view, to compare oneself with those one believes to be one's peers.

I disagree with Samuel, regarding the Clement comparison. I do not believe they are equivalent. Samuel is invited to prove me wrong this season.

But I also don't expect him to come in with a position of "aw shucks, since I was franchised and he wasn't, I'll take whatever you offer."

I just think he and the Pats differ on the risk/reward basis of his valuation. I think a year under the tag would clarify who is correct.

Here's a shocker, as well: I believe if he does excel, it would be a class move for the organization to let him seek a new contract, rather than re-franchising him. I am not so sure they will, but by coming to camp rather than hold out 10 games, Samuel definitely puts himself in sight of that treatment.

Long term: reward good behavior, punish bad behavior. If Samuel signs his tender, bear in mind he played ball to that extent. It MAY be in the team's interest not to tag him again. Yes, reserve the right. Nobody stonewalls you into it. But let him walk if he does excel, and you do not want to pay top dollar. Of course, that's strategy rather than tactics.

This time next year, it will be all about tactics.

PFnV

 

[Herndz31]

Good Asante coming back, My question is were is Moss. Will he be ready by the 9th. Let me know please I have been out of pocket for a minute. thank you

 

[mgteich]

Re: Asante Samuel Will Report Next Week

Talk to the union and those who wrote the CBA. That is where the rules are set.

Please read and understand:

Samuel is NOT under contract until he signs the tender. He is not required to show up for work until he has a contract. If the patriots want him to sign the tender and be part of the team, and they want him in camp, they have every right to make offers and give incentives for him to sign his contract earlier than he might otherwise. Other teams have offered bonuses and the right of no future franchise. As far as we know, the patriots have offered nothing. Since that is the case, it is 100% up to Samuel. He can DECIDE when and if to sign the tender and thereupon be under contract and be required to come to work.

Is going "above and beyind" being ready for Game 1?? He's getting PAID top dollat for game one and he's no ready...soime may say he's stealing money NOT being ready. I think one..he's hurting himself, setting himself up for a less than stellar season..but beyond that, how professional is that? Apparently that is quite professional to many..and not any character issue.

 

[Maroney TD]

Re: Asante Samuel Will Report Next Week

I don't think it's speculation at all...and there are some like Felger (ugh..) who agree that he is beyond the time frame of being ready..(that point being this week and playing tonight..) While I disagree with him mostly, this makes sense. He's not in camp to play with the first unit and get a feel for that unit now as it is going into the first week. (Wk 3 being the dress rhsl for Game 1.) He's also not a player that can come in and get it all down fast quick; He may be a top corner but he is NOT a special player that can do that. Training camp DOES mean something despite so many football fans thinking it means so little.

Again your completely speculating again. He has been with the Patriots for 4 years and played in 59 regular season games while here. I could just as easily argue that Asante knows the system inside out which is why he led the league in INTs last year. The only new player on D is Thomas, other than that he should know what its like to work with the 1st unit. Then you say hes not the type of player that can come in a get it down quick. You have no idea how quickly he can get it down and pretending like you do is absurd. IMO leading the league in INTs proves that he is a special player even though you don't think so.

For some reason your taking the business of the NFL personally and thinking it has anything to do with the character of player when they hold out. Players hold out every single year because its basically their only leverage when they can never reach FA because of the franchise tag. You don't think that its unfair for Asante to have to work on a 1 year contract every year if the Patriots feel like it? He wants to get his 1 big contract that he's going to get in his career. Keep in mind that the average NFL career is around 3 years and not many guys have a shot at a big contract that could set up their family for generations.

EDIT: Also read the post above, as Asante isn't under contract with the Patriots until he signs so he has absolutely no obligation to be here until he does sign.

 

[NE39]

The question was not whether he was on the open market, but what his open market value would be.

I don't think Samuel is blaming the patriots for anything. He was negotiating, nothing more. It is his right to negotiate to be traded. Unfortunately for him (and fortunately for us), he had little leverage.

We agree then. His open market value would be whatever some team saw to pay him, regardless of whether he is worth it or not. He would get a ton of dough, likely close to what Clements got, because it would only take one team to offer him that. I can see why he wants to get that payoff, if I were in his position I would want it as well.

OTOH, I can't blame the Patriots for not offering him that kind of money. They define what he is worth to them, and they can choose to spend their money elsewhere. They also can retain his rights via the franchise tag, which is what they have done.

In the end, I would guess Samuel reports and plays well. I don't think it would take him long to get up to speed, assuming he has stayed in shape and given his experience in the defense.

He will play well and perhaps we go through this same dance next season.

 

[Displaced - Fan]

You're misunderstanding the economics.

FMV means the most he could get on the OPEN market. Vasher never got on the open market b/c the bears resigned him before his contract was up. Therefore, that is a meaningless comparison.

Clements is the better comparison. He got $22m guaranteed. And I think most GM's would say Samuel is better and has more upside at this point.

Fair enough, though I wouldn't consider that "fair" singing: ) market value. As SF WAY over paid for Nate. Seems there are teams each season who just throw money at guys in desperation. SF is just finally over coming the money problems they had from there SB years. Nothing like jumping right back in to a sicking boat. I'll stick with the Pats way of doing things. :rocker:

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I for one have no problem whatsoever with Asante showing up at this juncture, ASSUMING that Schefter is correct and he really does. He's well within complying with the CBA and was fairly exercizing his rights. Even though I think as a person he's a bit of a twerp, I hope and believe that he will have a good season. May it be injury free.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Re: Asante Samuel Will Report Next Week

Asante's already proven he can train pretty effectively down in Florida.

On the subject of Asante's return, I always expected he'd report just prior to the seasons start. This way Asante gets paid his full contract, while not having to risk injury during training camp or the preseason. Really, I never understood why anyone expected him to sit out ten games, or report any sooner....this made the most sense.

I think that this bears saying once again. Many players come to New England to partake in the off season workout program.

To my knowledge Asante has never done this. He usually trains in Florida in one of those special health clubs run for professional athletes. So he is NOT just jogging a little bit, and paying a few rounds of golf, and taking a dip or two in the Surf.

That is something he never did before; and has all the incentive to get through this year without injury to add to the spectacular amount of money he gets the moment he signs. So he should be training very hard.

If he is signed on the Franchise Contract, I believe such a contract it is fully guaranteed. If not, and he merely shows up and makes the cut for the first game, then his contract is also fully guaranteed as a four year veteran. if he came in for the second or subsequent games, if the contract were not guaranteed, he would be paid on a game by game basis.

So no matter what happens he earns $7.79 million, provided he signs prior to game one. That is true even if he gets hurt on the first play of the first game, and is out for the season.

 

[mgteich]

Re: Asante Samuel Will Report Next Week

I beleive you are correct. As a veteran under a signed contract, Samuel will be guaranteed his year's salary as soon as he is on the Game One roster.

I think that this bears saying once again. Many players come to New England to partake in the off season workout program.

To my knowledge Asante has never done this. He usually trains in Florida in one of those special health clubs run for professional athletes. So he is NOT just jogging a little bit, and paying a few rounds of golf, and taking a dip or two in the Surf.

That is something he never did before; and has all the incentive to get through this year without injury to add to the spectacular amount of money he gets the moment he signs. So he should be training very hard.

If he is signed on the Franchise Contract, I believe such a contract it is fully guaranteed. If not, and he merely shows up and makes the cut for the first game, then his contract is also fully guaranteed as a four year veteran. if he came in for the second or subsequent games, if the contract were not guaranteed, he would be paid on a game by game basis.

So no matter what happens he earns $7.79 million, provided he signs prior to game one. That is true even if he gets hurt on the first play of the first game, and is out for the season.

 

[italian pat patriot]

i will be satisfied when Asante will be back; let's hope he will be ready to play allready for week.1

 

[Pats726]

Re: Asante Samuel Will Report Next Week

Talk to the union and those who wrote the CBA. That is where the rules are set.

Please read and understand:

Samuel is NOT under contract until he signs the tender. He is not required to show up for work until he has a contract. If the patriots want him to sign the tender and be part of the team, and they want him in camp, they have every right to make offers and give incentives for him to sign his contract earlier than he might otherwise. Other teams have offered bonuses and the right of no future franchise. As far as we know, the patriots have offered nothing. Since that is the case, it is 100% up to Samuel. He can DECIDE when and if to sign the tender and thereupon be under contract and be required to come to work.

Who is denying that he can not DECIDE...my friend...he has that option THAT is not the question. you continually sidestep the real question of professionalism..and THAT is what I see AS the question.
He can DECIDE many things and WILL and the fans on the other hand CAN DECIDE as well and have their thoughts on his actions. I think Felger and Tomase covered this the best this afternoon in talking about his return.
They talked about the fact that this year was a big year for him and Felger pointed out that if he wished to have another big year like last year, he would have been in camp on time or missing only a bit to maximize his playing ability this year to get the mega deal he wants. It's obvioous hss NOT showing up until late indicates he's not taking that route and just coming in for the checks. Tomase disgareed saying that Sanuel thinks he's a super star and only needs a week if that, while Felger believes that the time has passed where he could be effective in game One and that he is a month or so behind and will end up getting injured and/or basically having a less than stellar year. Even Tomase agreed that this scenario is possible and not at all out of the question.
The point is he's getting paid top dollar For Game One and the chaces are small that he will be in top shape for that game. How professional is that of an athlete? I ask that..and if he gets injured because of this hold out..how does it REALLY help him? yes he CAN DECIDE to take that route, but how professional is that of him? Is that not a character issue? He may be cutting off his nose to spite his face in all this, but only time will tell.
He makes decisions and has that right..and OTHERS have that same right to criticize HIM. And they brought up Ty Warren and his words of doing things quietly and what both saw as a veiled comment to Mr Samuel. You may be blind and think all the Patriot players endorse his greed, but I bet there are just as many that see it as that and would agree with Mr Warren.
I am glad he is back and I hope on the field, quicker than not, but as both Felger and Toimase pointed out, the situation might be similar to Terry Glenn..and the team might be moving on without him.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Well I did expect him to sign. That was the logical thing, but it wasn't a completely certain thing. If he's in uniform for game 1 all I have to say is all is forgiven Asante as long as you give it 100% on gameday.

 

[Fixit]

Well I did expect him to sign. That was the logical thing, but it wasn't a completely certain thing. If he's in uniform for game 1 all I have to say is all is forgiven Asante as long as you give it 100% on gameday.

I wouldn't worry about that. He'll be playing for his biiiiiig payday.

 

[hwc]

Before he sees the field, he would have to beat out Gay or Hobbs for a starting CB slot. I'm not sure that's a given. Gay and Hobbs have played pretty well.

 

[patsfan55]

Before he sees the field, he would have to beat out Gay or Hobbs for a starting CB slot. I'm not sure that's a given. Gay and Hobbs have played pretty well.

as much as i like randall gay, asante can def beat him out for a starting spot

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I think the Panthers game, preseason though it was, demonstrated a couple of things:

- we do okay with or without a marquee corner;
- we definitely have a greater margin of error with.

The Panthers had a bad game in terms of drops and overthrows. Think about that game had they executed better -- had they been in top form, or had they been the Colts or Bolts in top form.

That said, the fact that a team primarily passes on you means you have shut down their running game. That in itself is much more valuable than the marquee corner position (and hence, where Pats money is more likely to go, in terms of the big bucks.)

Think about how the game extrapolates to the Colts or Bolts, at their high points. We can't count on drops from the like of Harrison, Wayne, or Gates.

Is Asante the best in the game? No. Is he the best corner we have? Almost certainly, yes. Is his a less embarassing jersey to buy than Gay's? Try as he might to change it, the answer is still yes.

Bottom line - I love getting Asante back, if in fact we are getting him back. I don't love it at the price tag he wants. I suppose it looks like we better not get to used to having him onboard.

But for a year, I am pretty happy with the look of this roster -- especially if he can get on the field by the early part of the season.

And if it drags out? Hey, ya can't have everything. Where would you put it?

PFnV