RUMOR: Waddle's knee injury likely to end his year (edit: or not)

[DaBruinz]

From Jeff Howe:

 

[Uptown]

Damn

 

[JayNM]

Being completely honest, the drop off between Fleming (who has improved this season, IMO) and Waddle isn't all that big, so I think we're going to be fine.

Biggest problem is that we literally have no one else who is a tackle in the roster, after Solder and Flemming, IIRC. I doubt any FA available would amount to anything other than a body too.

Sad to hear about this though. I remember Waddle caming in from the Lions, he was used as the #3 blocking-only TE. Improved tremendously here.

 

[patchick]

Damn

Yep. He was a very pleasant surprise this season, and losing him not only leaves the team starting its 3rd-string RT, but with no legit LT backup. (Waddle was the 2nd LT from day one, Fleming is clearly not cut out for that job.)

 

[patchick]

Biggest problem is that we literally have no one else who is a tackle in the roster, after Solder and Flemming, IIRC.

Expect Cole Croston to dress next week. He's bigger and more athletic than we generally give him credit for.

 

[Ring 6]

Starting RT on Patriot SB champs

Greg Robinson Randall
Tom ashworth
Brandon gorin
Sebastian volmer
Marcus cannon

 

[luuked]

Being completely honest, the drop off between Fleming (who has improved this season, IMO) and Waddle isn't all that big, so I think we're going to be fine.

Biggest problem is that we literally have no one else who is a tackle in the roster, after Solder and Flemming, IIRC. I doubt any FA available would amount to anything other than a body too.

Sad to hear about this though. I remember Waddle caming in from the Lions, he was used as the #3 blocking-only TE. Improved tremendously here.

I disagree. From the some of the homework for earlier rewatch threads I remember that we gave Fleming a lot more help with chipping and blocking TEs than we gave Cannon/Waddle. This obviously also meant there were fewer options out in patterns which on paper should make coverage tighter.

Comparing just the stats misses a lot of context. That being said I thought Fleming looked better in run blocking than Waddle.

 

[JayNM]

Expect Cole Croston to dress next week. He's bigger and more athletic than we generally give him credit for.

He isn't a Tackle by origin though, right? I don't really know... He'll definetily suit up, but I'd guess that Thuney, most likely, is the back up Tackle now

 

[RayClay]

Cole Croston or unretire someone in FA

 

[JayNM]

I disagree. From the some of the homework for earlier rewatch threads I remember that we gave Fleming a lot more help with chipping and blocking TEs than we gave Cannon/Waddle. This obviously also meant there were fewer options out in patterns which on paper should make coverage tighter.

Comparing just the stats misses a lot of context. That being said I thought Fleming looked better in run blocking than Waddle.

Fair enough, I haven't been rewatching games this season and I don't pay that much attention to the OL in my viewings. Sucks even more to know that Waddle is out then

 

[DaBruinz]

Being completely honest, the drop off between Fleming (who has improved this season, IMO) and Waddle isn't all that big, so I think we're going to be fine.

Biggest problem is that we literally have no one else who is a tackle in the roster, after Solder and Flemming, IIRC. I doubt any FA available would amount to anything other than a body too.

Sad to hear about this though. I remember Waddle caming in from the Lions, he was used as the #3 blocking-only TE. Improved tremendously here.

Cole Croston is a OT/OG and has been on the roster all season.

The following is courtesy of NFLDraftScout.com
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/members/ratings/profile.php?pyid=108382

6'5 4/8 - 315 lbs - 34' 5/8" arms
Bench - 17 reps
vertical - 32 1/2
broad - 8'07
Shuttle - 4.68
3 Cone - 7.61

"
STRENGTHS: Croston looks the part with a good overall weight distribution, including broad shoulders, a relatively tapered middle and thick lower body. He eases off the ball in pass protection, efficiently gaining depth in his kick-slide and showing good lateral agility to mirror edge rushers. Croston's best feature may be the patience that he shows in pass protection, inviting defenders to come to him with good knee bend and ****ed hands ready to punch once rushers approach. He shows good accuracy with a quick punch to the chest off opponents and shows enough balance and power to feet his feet sliding while grappling. Croston is an effective seal off run blocker, showing good initial quickness for the down block as well as in climbing to the second level.
WEAKNESSES: Croston currently lacks the functional power to handle NFL defensive ends, too easily getting pushed deep in the pocket due to poor pad level and a lack of core strength. He is reliant on his initial quickness to get in front of and seal off defenders in the running game, struggling to generate movement at the point of attack due to only average leg drive. He does not appear to have particularly long arms, with defenders too often able to shed him quickly. The stress fracture which limited his 2016 season requires a closer look during medical evaluations at the Combine.
"

The biggest knocks on Croston were his poor pad level, core strength and lack of experience. 2 of those things should have easily been corrected by now or he'd have been dumped. The only thing he doesn't have is in game experience. He's very likely to see a lot of reps this week at both tackle positions since he's IT now.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the Pats bring back Anthony Fabiano or Max Rich to the PS..

 

[patchick]

He isn't a Tackle by origing though, right? I don't really know... He'll definetily suit up, but I'd guess that Thuney, most likely, is the back up Tackle now

Croston was exclusively a tackle at Iowa, and logged starts at both LT and RT. He's 6'5 1/2" with super-long arms and a 32.5" vertical. In physical type at least, he's more of a natural tackle than Thuney.

 

[RayClay]

He isn't a Tackle by origin though, right? I don't really know... He'll definetily suit up, but I'd guess that Thuney, most likely, is the back up Tackle now

He is a tackle. Played left and right.

 

[KDPPatsfan85]

So if they IR him, who should we sign?

 

[FCB02062]

Cole Croston is a OT/OG and has been on the roster all season.

The following is courtesy of NFLDraftScout.com
NFL Draft Scout----Powered By: The Sports Xchange

6'5 4/8 - 315 lbs - 34' 5/8" arms
Bench - 17 reps
vertical - 32 1/2
broad - 8'07
Shuttle - 4.68
3 Cone - 7.61

"
STRENGTHS: Croston looks the part with a good overall weight distribution, including broad shoulders, a relatively tapered middle and thick lower body. He eases off the ball in pass protection, efficiently gaining depth in his kick-slide and showing good lateral agility to mirror edge rushers. Croston's best feature may be the patience that he shows in pass protection, inviting defenders to come to him with good knee bend and ****ed hands ready to punch once rushers approach. He shows good accuracy with a quick punch to the chest off opponents and shows enough balance and power to feet his feet sliding while grappling. Croston is an effective seal off run blocker, showing good initial quickness for the down block as well as in climbing to the second level.
WEAKNESSES: Croston currently lacks the functional power to handle NFL defensive ends, too easily getting pushed deep in the pocket due to poor pad level and a lack of core strength. He is reliant on his initial quickness to get in front of and seal off defenders in the running game, struggling to generate movement at the point of attack due to only average leg drive. He does not appear to have particularly long arms, with defenders too often able to shed him quickly. The stress fracture which limited his 2016 season requires a closer look during medical evaluations at the Combine.
"

The biggest knocks on Croston were his poor pad level, core strength and lack of experience. 2 of those things should have easily been corrected by now or he'd have been dumped. The only thing he doesn't have is in game experience. He's very likely to see a lot of reps this week at both tackle positions since he's IT now.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if the Pats bring back Anthony Fabiano or Max Rich to the PS..

17 reps at 315 is not good at all, by comp, Cannon got 33!

 

[DaBruinz]

So if they IR him, who should we sign?

There are a lot of moving parts right now. Especially with Mitchell and with the injury to Jonathan Jones.

If the Pats were to IR Waddle and/or Jones, then they wouldn't have to worry about a spot for Mitchell. If they IRed both, it's likely that Ryan Lewis or Jomal Wiltz would be promoted from the PS and someone like Max Rich or Anthony Fabiano would be signed to the PS.

I don't know of any "veteran" available that could step in. I know Vollmer couldn't because he's lost a ton of weight..

 

[ohiopatsfan]

I would opt for Max Rich over Anthony Fabiano. Rich is heavier (315 vs. 305) and he also spent more time with the Pats in training camp. Sorry to see Jonathan Jones go down, especially since Butler didn't look too good yesterday.

 

[patchick]

17 reps at 315 is not good at all, by comp, Cannon got 33!

Granted, but Cannon's total is the highest in my memory for Pats OL. Solder logged 21, Waddle 23. Bench reps aren't a great predictor of success, especially for longer-armed OTs.

 

[long distance]

Its funny how people who don't know the roster are the first to claim there is no depth, talent etc. over and over and even 18 years of BB can't do anything about it..

Both non-starting OL left - Karras and Croston - offer solid backup for all 5 positions:
Croston has experience in 4 positions: LT,RT,LG,RG.
Karras has experience at LG, RG, C.
They both had strong TC and preseason games. As Karras looked solid when he stepped in for Andrews so will Croston at any given position outside C.

There's Thuney who covers all 5 positions (everybody thought they drafted him for a tackle back when people thought Cannon is a JAG and should be cut), Mason has C experience, Fleming G etc..

One word that becomes synonym for Patriots on draft night is: versatility.

The drop off from Cannon to others is significant both in passing and running game (i can only imagine how this sentence would look here a couple of seasons ago..). The level of others under Dante is quite similar in my view with different sets of strengths and weaknesses. Id feel better for Tommy behind Croston than Fleming . not so much for Lewis..


BTW - speaking of Cannon..

 

[K. Dog]

Being completely honest, the drop off between Fleming (who has improved this season, IMO) and Waddle isn't all that big, so I think we're going to be fine.

Biggest problem is that we literally have no one else who is a tackle in the roster, after Solder and Flemming, IIRC. I doubt any FA available would amount to anything other than a body too.

Sad to hear about this though. I remember Waddle caming in from the Lions, he was used as the #3 blocking-only TE. Improved tremendously here.

This seems devastating if true. The Patriots did great when Waddle played. It was OL injuries that killed the Patriots in '15. Waddle was a critical save for a while. The luck the Patriots have on injuries this year is surreal.

But a bad OL or one bad tackle is going to make Brady look bad, the running game look bad, it will permeate the entire offense.