Rodney Harrison: Pats' biggest need is a player like Rodney Harrison

[Kontradiction]

Harmon played at about the level of a 3rd rounder this year, so we can't really complain. The arrow is definitely pointing up for him.

May I ask what you're basing that on first?

 

[VrabelJr]

May I ask what you're basing that on first?

It's easy to ask questions. It's easy to pretend there is some rubrik of grading rookie Safeties that were drafted in the third round.

The obvious answer is based off what my eyes saw. Some of that is arbitary, most of it is this: What negative plays did Harmon commit that we can really complain about that pick at that spot? Not a whole lot in my opinion.

Some third rounders never see the field. Harmon did and wasn't a liability while he was out there. He looks to at least be a serviceable backup at this point.

 

[Kontradiction]

It's easy to ask questions. It's easy to pretend there is some rubrik of grading rookie Safeties that were drafted in the third round.

The obvious answer is based off what my eyes saw. Some of that is arbitary, most of it is this: What negative plays did Harmon commit that we can really complain about that pick at that spot? Not a whole lot in my opinion.

Some third rounders never see the field. Harmon did and wasn't a liability while he was out there. He looks to at least be a serviceable backup at this point.

By my eyes, he was out of position a bit this season and the positive plays made (like the INT's) were in large part gifts, the Roethlisberger one being the best example. In our most recent loss, he missed a tackle and let Moreno hurdle him for a longer gain. Not saying he's looked horrible, but he still looks extremely raw at best and the pick itself was a reach. Maybe he'll develop in time, take better angles, and wrap up better. Still doesn't change the fact that Elam and Swearinger would have made bigger impacts on the team as rookies and would have had better chances of replacing Gregory, who is a back-up at best himself but still took his starting position back in spite of the fact that he was clearly still recovering from injury.

 

[Deus Irae]

It's easy to ask questions. It's easy to pretend there is some rubrik of grading rookie Safeties that were drafted in the third round.

The obvious answer is based off what my eyes saw. Some of that is arbitary, most of it is this: What negative plays did Harmon commit that we can really complain about that pick at that spot? Not a whole lot in my opinion.

Some third rounders never see the field. Harmon did and wasn't a liability while he was out there. He looks to at least be a serviceable backup at this point.

We were watching a completely different Harmon. The fact that he had fewer snaps in the postseason than did Tavon Wilson certainly doesn't support your position.

 

[kennyb]

If Harmon isn't that good then the brain trust has to do some soul searching on why they pick so bad. I thought he was decent. Broke up a few passes here and there.

 

[Christian]

I think Harmon is more of a FS, like McCourty. And to be honest, I think BB values Safeties who are smart and who can cover versus in the box type Safeties. I think he saw a need for a guy that can play in the box and hit, which is why he signed Wilson. But we all know how that turned out.

Bottom line, this defense needs a couple, yes A COUPLE, not one or two...guys that can hit and enforce. We have one with Spikes, but his ass his gone after this year, and we need one at Safety.

This defense is not far off one bit from being an elite unit. We need help at DL, a S on the back end to pair with McCourty...and probably another LB who can play in case one of our guys inevitably goes down.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

We were watching a completely different Harmon. The fact that he had fewer snaps in the postseason than did Tavon Wilson certainly doesn't support your position.

3 D snaps against Indy (Wilson) vs. 2 D snaps against Denver (Harmon) isn't much of a point to hang your hat on. [Plus Belichick tends to be very conservative in playing young players in big games.]

 

[Deus Irae]

3 D snaps against Indy (Wilson) vs. 2 D snaps against Denver (Harmon) isn't much of a point to hang your hat on. [Plus Belichick tends to be very conservative in playing young players in big games.]

Playing only 2 snaps in 2 games isn't a point to hang my hat on, when even Tavon got 3? You might want to re-think that one. Hell, I was being generous in Harmon's favor with how I posted it. It's even worse than the 2 snaps, because they were only due to injury:

The two snaps for safety Duron Harmon came in the dime defense after Talib got hurt, with the Patriots moving Devin McCourty down to cornerback

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4757900/snaps-depth-at-db-exploited

 

[Sciz]

Playing only 2 snaps in 2 games isn't a point to hang my hat on, when even Tavon got 3? You might want to re-think that one. Hell, I was being generous in Harmon's favor with how I posted it.

1. 3rd and 6, Wilson was the 3rd safety up in the box when the Pats went big nickel against two WRs, two TEs, and one RB.
2. End of the line in goal line defense
3. End of the line in goal line defense, followed a TE when he split out a bit

I know you want to make it a lot more than this, but all there really is to get out of this is that they like Wilson better in the box than Harmon. Not surprising given his added size and experience in man coverage.

 

[Deus Irae]

1. 3rd and 6, Wilson was the 3rd safety up in the box when the Pats went big nickel against two WRs, two TEs, and one RB.
2. End of the line in goal line defense
3. End of the line in goal line defense, followed a TE when he split out a bit

I know you want to make it a lot more than this, but all there really is to get out of this is that they like Wilson better in the box than Harmon. Not surprising given his added size and experience in man coverage.

The thing I'm "making" out of this is that Harmon's ass was planted firmly on the bench, to the extent that even Tavon got more snaps than he did. It's not as if I'm pushing some secret agenda here. I'm flat-out stating the point. People are welcome to state that Harmon's arrow is pointing up. I believe we're still welcome to point out his lack of playing time during games as important as the playoffs in response to such a claim.

 

[DarrylS]

Biggest need is a "player like Rodney Harrison is not their only need". It would be helpful, but if we cannot consistently move the ball on O, you can beat the crap out of the other team with no effect. IMO another reliable TE would have a domino effect on this whole team and both sides of the ball.

We had Spikes this year, and he was our big hitter... over the season he played less and less snaps, injury or ability??

Not sure any one position player is a panacea for this team, it is the same argument as; Did Peyton lose the Superbowl or did the Bronco's lose the Superbowl??

 

[Wilfork#75]

Two hitters were available - Elam, Swearinger

A ground chewer was available - Cyprien

All 3 players showed significant improvement over the course of the season, and would have been able to be real contributors once the postseason came around.


BB went with A. Wilson and T. Wilson, after the P. Chung fiasco. :bricks:

Don't forget TJ McDonald, he was my binkie for 2 years and fit the mold perfectly. 6'2" 219lbs, excellent athlete, big hitter, NFL pedigree and some nastiness to his game. He had an excellent rookie year despite getting hurt and I think he would have been perfect here.

"You're talking about the offspring of a famous father with NFL pedigree. This guy will take your head off. When he's in the box and tackling, he'll be an absolutely physical presence. The only negative is he has some stiffness, which a lot of tall defensive backs have. But I love his physicality." -- Mike Mayock

That sounds like what we are looking for this offseason, unfortunately we are a year late.

 

[AzorianPats]

If he becomes available. I'm all aboard the let's sign Donte Whitner train.

 

[1960Pats]

Biggest need is a "player like Rodney Harrison is not their only need". It would be helpful, but if we cannot consistently move the ball on O, you can beat the crap out of the other team with no effect. IMO another reliable TE would have a domino effect on this whole team and both sides of the ball.

We had Spikes this year, and he was our big hitter... over the season he played less and less snaps, injury or ability??

Not sure any one position player is a panacea for this team, it is the same argument as; Did Peyton lose the Superbowl or did the Bronco's lose the Superbowl??

I have to agree with Rodney. A hard hitting safety is just what the doctor ordered for the Pats.

Spikes probably wants too much money.

The Broncos lost the SB but P6 contributed the most to the loss. He stunk.

 

[Brady6]

On some levels, I think we have that type of player in Jamie Collins, a big athletic player who can get all over the field and make plays. Is he lining up at strong safety? No; but he is capable of giving us some of the physicality we have been missing.

 

[SalemPats]

We need a Rodney type of player, Seattle doesn't win without Earl Thomas. Saying that, elite safeties are nearly impossible to find. Saints got a good one in Vaccaro and Berry in KC are good.

The two available who fit our team are Byrd and Ward. Ward will probably be re-signed but we know Byrd wants out.

 

[condon84]

It would help if we have another Rodney back there. But if we don't have a pass rush, it's really not gonna matter. You can have Rodneys, Revis's, Talib's back there, but if QBs have 5 seconds to throw, they're gonna complete passes.

We need pass rushers or a more creative pass rush scheme.

 

[The Boston Patriot]

A playmaker at SS would be outstanding. I know it would never happen, but someone like Palomalu would be perfect? He is 33, on the down side of his career, and Pittsburg needs to get young on defense. He is on his last year for 2014, due about $10 million and then become UFA next year.

He is toast. I loved his play when he was in his prime but he is not an answer any longer. Getting him would be like getting Ochositinko and the big tub of lard from Washington. The only thing that would do is set us back another year. My prediction is that would fail big time and I, for one, would be really pissed if the team did that (not that that really matters!)

 

[dales804]

My binky last year, Matt Elam, was a hard hitter and is talented. The Pats could have had him. I've been saying the Pats have needed an enforcer type of strong safety since 2009. The Super Bowl winning teams of recent memory have been the more physical teams on the defensive side of the ball. Last night continued that tradition.

Yes, I wanted Elam, too. I thought it had a high chance of happening when he hadn't been taken yet as the picks turned to the mid 20s.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

We need a Rodney type of player, Seattle doesn't win without Earl Thomas. Saying that, elite safeties are nearly impossible to find. Saints got a good one in Vaccaro and Berry in KC are good.

The two available who fit our team are Byrd and Ward. Ward will probably be re-signed but we know Byrd wants out.

Earl thomas is not seattle's hard sitting safety. Kam chancellor is. Earl thomas is more ed reed-like.