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Report: Brandon Lloyd's 'erratic behavior proved tiresome', may lead to release

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The defense sucked in the regular season game against the Ravens. So did the officiating.

Exactly why this team needs to blow $10 million a year on a flashy WR. Do you think this defense would have given up 31 points and 503 yards to the Ravens if they had Mike Wallace? Add a deep threat WR and the Pats' defense will be shut down.

BTW, if I am going to break the bank on a free agent, I would much rather break it on say Henry Melton or Cliff Avril or Paul Kruger (although I think he may be overrated because of a strong playoffs where everyone on the defense seemed to be playing on emotions) than Mike Wallace.
 
Gronk had a great game until he got hurt in the 2011 AFCCG. He had 8 catches for 87 yards in the first three quarters. He was injured at the beginning of the fourth and used as a decoy only going forward. If he was healthy for the entire game, he would have probably had well over 100 yards.

I was responding to your post about how the Pats were missing a burner against the Ravens in the championship game a month or so ago. You said the Pats struggled against the Ravens and the Giants because they lack a burner and I will argue the Pats have one or possibly two Super Bowls over the last two years if they had a healthy Gronk against those teams in the playoffs.

I am thinking big picture, not just one game. I think a burner like Wallace is an overprice luxury rather than a must spend on team necessity. Again, I feel this team is a healthy Gronk away from two Super Bowls (or at least one and possible at least another Super Bowl appearance) over the last two years.

Where this team needs to improve is on defense. They let Flacco pass all over them in the second half in this AFC Championship Game, couldn't stop Eli Manning from mounting a two minute TD drive when they were up by 3 with 3 minutes left in the game, and couldn't stop the Ravens earlier in the season. Yet, every time the Pats lose in the playoffs, all we hear about is how the offense is broken.

Im not ready to put the entire blame on a defense that only gave up 19 points in the super bowl. That game was on the offense and was winnable without gronk playing a significant role. These days a stellar defense is not needed to win.
 
Exactly why this team needs to blow $10 million a year on a flashy WR. Do you think this defense would have given up 31 points and 503 yards to the Ravens if they had Mike Wallace? Add a deep threat WR and the Pats' defense will be shut down.

BTW, if I am going to break the bank on a free agent, I would much rather break it on say Henry Melton than Mike Wallace.

Your not gonna win many games scoring 13 points. The d was bad but even if they had played well Pats still probably lose. Last few playoff losses the offense has been just as responsible if not more. The d only gave up 17 and 21 to the giants. While the offense only scored 14 vs ravens first time and 21 vs the jets.
 
Exactly why this team needs to blow $10 million a year on a flashy WR. Do you think this defense would have given up 31 points and 503 yards to the Ravens if they had Mike Wallace? Add a deep threat WR and the Pats' defense will be shut down.

BTW, if I am going to break the bank on a free agent, I would much rather break it on say Henry Melton or Cliff Avril than Mike Wallace.

I was just using mike wallace as one example. They could get victor cruz, larry fitzgerald, boldin types or someone in the draft. The point is not who the player is but the skill set he brings.
 
Im not ready to put the entire blame on a defense that only gave up 19 points in the super bowl. That game was in the offense and was winnable without gronk playing a significant role. These days a stellar defense is not needed to win.

The defense broke down at the worst possible time possible. They get a significant share of the blame pie. The offense does too, but Eli had no problem scoring on that drive. In fact, if the Pats didn't let Bradshaw stroll into the end zone on purpose to save time, the defense would have let the Giants score a TD with no time left in the game.
 
Your not gonna win many games scoring 13 points. The d was bad but even if they had played well Pats still probably lose. Last few playoff losses the offense has been just as responsible if not more. The d only gave up 17 and 21 to the giants. While the offense only scored 14 vs ravens first time and 21 vs the jets.

Again, 5 trips into the red zone and getting 13 points. How is that lack of a deep threat?

Also, I am not absolving the offense. I am pointing out to people who want to spend big free agent dollars on a flashy WR that the defense is a lot to blame with the losses.

Also, I have already told you that a healthy Gronk probably give the Pats one if not two Super Bowl rings over the last two years. How is that putting all the blame on the offense. The Pats don't need to spend $10 million a year on Mike Wallace. They need to make sure Gronk stays healthy in the playoffs.
 
I was just using mike wallace as one example. They could get victor cruz, larry fitzgerald, boldin types or someone in the draft. The point is not who the player is but the skill set he brings.

And I think that is secondary to getting a dominant pass rusher or a great safety or CB.

I think the Pats beat the Giants in the Super Bowl with a healthy Gronk and probably win the AFCCG with a healthy Gronk. But with a good defense, they could have overcome the loss Gronk in both games. The biggest area of needs are still on the defensive side of the ball. Yet, everyone wants to blame the offense for every playoff loss.
 
I was just using mike wallace as one example. They could get victor cruz, larry fitzgerald, boldin types or someone in the draft. The point is not who the player is but the skill set he brings.

:bricks:

Neither Cruz nor Boldin has the same downfield skill set as Wallace.
 
You really don't know what you are talking about. Again, there is no such thing as Yards per Target. And please don't put words in my mouth. Especially ones that make no sense the way your example makes no sense.

Yards per target is not a stat and nothing about it can evaluate a receivers production. Your claim is ludicrous and has no actual foundation in reality.

ONE stat can not, in any way, shape or form, give you any indication of a players production. And a fictitious stat like "Yards per Target" certainly can't do that since it penalizes the receiver for issues that aren't his. Such as a QB making a bad throw (be it out of bounds, into the ground, over-thrown, intercepted, or defensed).

While you have your opinion that Lloyd stunk, it's certainly not supported by some bogus "stat".

Right...sort of like strikeouts in baseball is not legitimate because it doesn't account for the pitcher and umpire. Just like in that case, over a long period of time, these statistics grow and tell us a story. Brady will throw some ducks to Lloyd, just like he'll throw to anyone else on the team, but when there's a sample size of 130, I'd say it's pretty hard to seriously argue that Lloyd's YPT number was caused by bad luck and a quarterback who seems to make everyone else's numbers improve. Everyone gets their share of throaways, uncatchable passes, etc, but over a large sample size, the numbers become insignificant and even out.

YPT is not a bogus stat. To focus instead on YPC, which you indicate is a superior statistic, is insane. It doesn't take into account the number of attempts... it's like calling the guy who made the most free throws the best shooter while ignoring that he only hit on 71% versus someone who makes 93% of them.

My comparison of Branch in 2010 to Lloyd in 2012 was accurate and confirmed exactly what many of realize to be the problem. Lloyd is running very similar patterns as Branch with similar coverage, yet if you throw the ball to Branch in 2010, it results in almost 2 more yards per attempt than if you throw it to Lloyd, and as I explained, that can be attributed to Lloyd's lack of ability to to gain YAC. A difference of two yards on every target is enormous and while you think the target stat is hogwash, you're just making yourself look foolish. All of the top tier receivers excel in yards per target while JAGs are proven to be JAGs. It's the way that you can compare players with completely different skills sets, for example, one who has lots of big gainers but low percentage of catches versus a guy like Wes Welker.

Until you can actually come up with a logical reason of why yards per target should be ignored, or anything about my critique of Lloyd is inaccurate, there's no point in arguing further. The stats I cited show that Lloyd was a disappointment last year and failed to put up the production that role, which merely confirmed what nearly everyone already believes.

And in terms of Lloyd having low expectations, that is just not true. The season began with a plan for Welker to be phased out with the emergence of Edelman and the addition of Lloyd. Based on the number of attempts to Lloyd through the first few games of the season, it was obvious that he was supposed to have a key role in the offense. Those attempts dwindled down when they realized Lloyd was not a good fit with Brady. Lloyd had his moments and I wouldn't call him the worst signing, but overall he was clearly not the player we hoped for.
 
How does 2012 Lloyd compare to 2010 Branch in YPT if you only count catchable balls?
 
How does 2012 Lloyd compare to 2010 Branch in YPT if you only count catchable balls?

Let's say that Tom Brady in 2010 decided in the last game of the season (via a time machine), for the sake of setting this argument, decided to throw the ball over Deion Branch's head on consecutive plays in order to make the YPT stat even out, as some believe the reason for Lloyd's low YPT stat had to do with Brady and/or throwaways.

Brady would have to throw the ball away 29 consecutive times. Then Branch's YPT is also 7.0.

Do you really believe that Branch in 2010 didn't have his share of bad passes and/or throwaways? And frankly, why does it matter- chicken or egg argument. Fact is Lloyd and Brady don't click. End of story.
 
Again, 5 trips into the red zone and getting 13 points. How is that lack of a deep threat?

Also, I am not absolving the offense. I am pointing out to people who want to spend big free agent dollars on a flashy WR that the defense is a lot to blame with the losses.

Also, I have already told you that a healthy Gronk probably give the Pats one if not two Super Bowl rings over the last two years. How is that putting all the blame on the offense. The Pats don't need to spend $10 million a year on Mike Wallace. They need to make sure Gronk stays healthy in the playoffs.
I didn't say deep threat but, an Anquan Boldin would be just what the doctor ordered. Assuming they don't break the bank for him if he becomes available. Yeah Gronk would have been enough to be the giants the 2nd time. Ravens game maybe. It'd be alot closer at least.
 
I didn't say deep threat but, an Anquan Boldin would be just what the doctor ordered. Assuming they don't break the bank for him if he becomes available. Yeah Gronk would have been enough to be the giants the 2nd time. Ravens game maybe. It'd be alot closer at least.

But Gronk is Boldin in the Pats' offense. If you are looking for Boldin, the Pats already have him.
 
Fact is Lloyd and Brady don't click. End of story.

When Brady doesn't click with someone, he doesn't throw to them 74 times, nevermind the number of targets required to get a receiver to 74 CATCHES. Even last year with Ocho, when we basically had no one else outside the numbers, Brady didn't go near him more than two or three times a game. THAT'S someone not clicking with Brady. 74 catches, 900+ yards, 50+ first downs. For the price we pay that's plenty of click for me.

This team can keep Lloyd AND sign someone else. Mind boggling though this may be, teams routinely field more than one good outside receiver.
 
Exactly why this team needs to blow $10 million a year on a flashy WR. Do you think this defense would have given up 31 points and 503 yards to the Ravens if they had Mike Wallace? Add a deep threat WR and the Pats' defense will be shut down.

BTW, if I am going to break the bank on a free agent, I would much rather break it on say Henry Melton or Cliff Avril or Paul Kruger (although I think he may be overrated because of a strong playoffs where everyone on the defense seemed to be playing on emotions) than Mike Wallace.

Maybe I'm just taking this too personally and you're not referring to me, but where did I advocate blowing $10M on a free agent? I've listed multiple draftees over the last month or so that should be able to come in and make immediate impacts. My personal favorite is Justin Hunter.

EDIT: Ah, I can see where you would misinterpret what I said on Page 1. Let me be clear, I would like the Pats to make a move in FA and the draft should Lloyd walk, but not at a $10M price tag. I'm especially against a guy like Wallace.
 
Quit trying to move the goalposts. Your words:

By skill set i meant a game breaker. It could be a deep threat or a guy who is just an elite athlete like cruz. Is there anyone in this pats offense, tight ends included, that are game changers? The pats have a lot of guys who can catch balls, none of them deep balls, and certanly not anyone with great speed.
 
By skill set i meant a game breaker. It could be a deep threat or a guy who is just an elite athlete like cruz. Is there anyone in this pats offense, tight ends included, that are game changers? The pats have a lot of guys who can catch balls, none of them deep balls, and certanly not anyone with great speed.

1.) Game breaker is not a skill set

2.) Welker is more of a "game breaker" than is Boldin

3.) Gronk's obviously a game breaker
 
1.) Game breaker is not a skill set

2.) Welker is more of a "game breaker" than is Boldin

3.) Gronk's obviously a game breaker

Gronk doesn't have much of an ability to run 50 yards with the ball and welker rarely does it. You are telling me you would rather have welker over cruz or boldin? Good grief....

Welker does not possess elite speed and neither does gronk, ahern, or lloyd. All fantastic pass catchers but would i want any of them if i am starting a track team? No.

There are other ways to score TDs on offense other than a red zone TD....

That's just my 2 cents.
 
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