Reminder: 30 for 30, The Two Bills, tonight at 9...

[jam757]

I admit. I am a HUGE, biased Parcells fan. I'm almost as much of an apologist for him as I am for BB, TB12 or any other sports personality that has brought me happiness and entertainment. I think i've watched bits and pieces of that 30 for 30 maybe 5 times since it aired.

My dad, RW Sr. grew up - and still is a Giants fan and back in the 80s and 90s he'd take me down once a year to the Meadowlands to a Giants game. Obviously I grew up a Pats fan but it was "our thing" as father and son. When the Giants won in 86 and again in 1990 he was beyond happy (2007 and 2011 is not germain to my eventual point) and I was happy for him. When it comes to Tuna, RW Sr will never say anything bad about him. "I don't care if he is a jerk. We won two Super Bowls because of him.". Needless to say I was a bit of a Tuna fan myself before he landed in NE

I'm kinda the same way with Tuna and the Pats. I acknowledge Parcells is a self-serving, cutthroat, opportunist who at periods in his professional career did not handle things the best of ways. I believe he was extremely selfish and handled his courtship with the Jets beyond poorly and his actions absolutely were a distraction to the team. Did it change the outcome? Don't know.

For some of us who are old enough, we remember how bleek, dark and downright miserable the Pats were from 1989 to 1992. Relocation, blackouts, 1-15, 2-14 seasons, sexual harassment scandals. It was just awful. AWFUL.

For me, Tuna brought hope, respectability and most important winning and fun back to New England Patriots football. I do believe he deserves SOME acknowledgment for the success this team and us fans has enjoyed these last two decades. Make no mistake, BB/Kraft/TB12 deserve all of it.

I get how fans hate his guts and will never forgive him for how he left the team. I understand it. I think Kraft had a bit to do with it as well but that does not excuse Tuna's behavior. The man has flaws no doubt.

All in all, i'll always appreciate Tuna for what he did here and how he influenced the creation of the Greatest NFL Dynasty in history.

Agree completely and as far as Im concerned Parcells saved this franchise. For that alone I am forever indebted to him.

 

[RobertWeathers]

So 4 years of .500 football followed by returning to the never ending bad stretch
does what?

They never returned to a bad stretch. Mediocrity sure but nothing close to 89-92.

So then every coach who ever coached one of your players deserves credit for your success?
By this argument Pete Carroll was more responsible for the success than Parcells, as well as Bobby’s Grier because he shopped for the groceries that you are giving Parcells credit for.

I don't think you comprehended my point.

 

[Calhoun44]

For those who missed it (like me) and refuse to give BSPN a click....here ya go.

*EDIT: Some commercials in here but you can fast forward of course.

Thanks for posting this video.

 

[jam757]

Pete didn't do a particularly good job here. But to call this guy a crap coach is way too much. He had no front office support--the drafts were abysmal.

He was a top defensive coordinator before taking over. He brought USC out of its 30 year doldrums and made them relevant again; he drafted well with the Seahawks and lead them to within seconds of 2 Super Bowl wins.

Put it this way. Bob Kraft has 3 head coaching hires over the span of 25 years. They are: Bill Parcells, Pete Carroll, & Bill Belichick.

8 (and hopefully 9) Super Bowl victories between them.

Pete Carroll is the second best coach in the NFL right now and by a wide margin. Obviously in 1998 he was not. The guy basically built one of the greatest defenses in the NFL over a 4 year span.

 

[Ring 6]

They never returned to a bad stretch. Mediocrity sure but nothing close to 89-92.

You are all over the page here.
You argued the bad stretch could have continued and now are arguing it didn’t.

I don't think you comprehended my point.

Sure I do, you want to give Parcells credit for what happened 5 years after he left and went to the jets and B.B. took over what was aptly described as the worst roster in the NFL because you like Parcells and want to attach him to success even if it wasn’t his.

 

[RobertWeathers]

bb saw right through weasel woody johnson, hated steve gutman and was tired of being parcells’s puppet when he knew he was superior to parcells.

parcells knew much of his success was directly due to bb

very obvious

Re : Woody. I don't doubt it.

BB contributed to Tunas success no doubt

 

[RobertWeathers]

You are all over the page here.
You argued the bad stretch could have continued and now are arguing it didn’t.





Sure I do, you want to give Parcells credit for what happened 5 years after he left and went to the jets and B.B. took over what was aptly described as the worst roster in the NFL because you like Parcells and want to attach him to success even if it wasn’t his.

No. I am saying the team was in a ****ty stretch and Parcells prevented it from continuing.

Parcells intro'd Kraft to BB. Parcells drafted key players who were on Dynasty 1. To not acknowledge he had SOME influence over the NEP is wrong.

 

[upstater1]

Pete Carroll is the second best coach in the NFL right now and by a wide margin. Obviously in 1998 he was not. The guy basically built one of the greatest defenses in the NFL over a 4 year span.

Maybe but let's face it; you'd probably take another guy before him (other than BB) if you had to start a team.

 

[jam757]

Maybe but let's face it; you'd probably take another guy before him (other than BB) if you had to start a team.

Honestly I would not. Tbe only thing working against Pete right now is his age but he could easily coach 10 more years.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Honestly I would not. Tbe only thing working against Pete right now is his age but he could easily coach 10 more years.

To 76? Uh no

 

[jam757]

To 76? Uh no

I mean obviously unlikely but Pete acts like he's 40 years old and is in great health.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I mean obviously unlikely but Pete acts like he's 40 years old and is in great health.

Agree. I figure 5. Maybe 6.

Levy set the record at 71

 

[jam757]

I'm somehow still dreaming that Bill will keep on chugging until he's 73-74 because he loves it so much!

 

[Ring 6]

No. I am saying the team was in a ****ty stretch and Parcells prevented it from continuing.

And when I said it would have ended at some point you said you don’t know that. Then gave Parcells credit because it didn’t continue.

Parcells intro'd Kraft to BB. Parcells drafted key players who were on Dynasty 1. To not acknowledge he had SOME influence over the NEP is wrong.

Parcells didn’t draft the players that’s why he left.
If you want to give him credit because he introduced B.B. to kraft before he used him to escape his contract then held the patriots hostage to prevent them from hiring him then you show your bias.
Yes he was here. So was Pete Carroll and bobby Grier.
Belichick came here and built a dynasty and the credit for that is his.

 

[RobertWeathers]

And when I said it would have ended at some point you said you don’t know that. Then gave Parcells credit because it didn’t continue.

I said there is no guarantee the bad stretch would have ended pertaining to if Parcells hadn't arrived.

Correct. I am giving Parcells credit for ending a bad stretch of football. Why wouldn't I?

Parcells didn’t draft the players that’s why he left.
If you want to give him credit because he introduced B.B. to kraft before he used him to escape his contract then held the patriots hostage to prevent them from hiring him then you show your bias.
Yes he was here. So was Pete Carroll and bobby Grier.

Parcells had personnel control prior to 1996. Regardless in 1996 he coached and developed the players on the 1996 team who were also on the 01-04 teams. He made them pros.

I have no problem with Carroll and Grier being acknowledged for drafting and coaching Woody, Faulk, Tebucky, Brandon Mitchell and Rod Rutledge and helping the team win SB 36. Same as Tuna.

Belichick came here and built a dynasty and the credit for that is his.

Of course. Doesn't mean we can't acknowledge people who contributed to it.

 

[DarrylS]

I like Parcells, but have a great deal of difficulty about the distraction he caused at Superbowl XXXI.. it is very difficult to move on from those shenanigans.. he could have handled it much differently than he did. I do not blame him for the loss, but he could have done things much differently than he chose to.

BB was well on his way before Parcells, and may have found his own way..

 

[bbobbo]

I'm somehow still dreaming that Bill will keep on chugging until he's 73-74 because he loves it so much!

what would be cool is if he sticks around long enough so that stephen becomes DC and brian becomes OC. it would be a three-headed belichick coaching hydra that would terrorize the rest of the NFL.
.

 

[Ring 6]

I said there is no guarantee the bad stretch would have ended pertaining to if Parcells hadn't arrived.

Correct. I am giving Parcells credit for ending a bad stretch of football. Why wouldn't I?

He gets credit for 2 years they see good with him as coach. That’s it.

Parcells had personnel control prior to 1996. Regardless in 1996 he coached and developed the players on the 1996 team who were also on the 01-04 teams. He made them pros.

He did not have personnel control.
Again every player on every good team had many coaches. This is a ridiculous reach.

I have no problem with Carroll and Grier being acknowledged for drafting and coaching Woody, Faulk, Tebucky, Brandon Mitchell and Rod Rutledge and helping the team win SB 36. Same as Tuna.

Grier drafted the players. That’s why he gets credit. Having coached players previous years just isn’t worthy of credit for their success under other coaches. Is Lloyd Carr responsible for all Brady’s rings?

Of course. Doesn't mean we can't acknowledge people who contributed to it.

Because there are people directly responsible who deserve the credit without trying to share credit with a guy who didn’t win here because we win 5 years after he left.
You sound like Jeff fisher

 

[RobertWeathers]

He gets credit for 2 years they see good with him as coach. That’s it.

He gets credit for a lot more than 2 years. That franchise was the worst in football. In 1997 they no longer were.

He did not have personnel control.
Again every player on every good team had many coaches. This is a ridiculous reach.

Yes he did and Kraft took it away from him in 1996

Grier drafted the players. That’s why he gets credit. Having coached players previous years just isn’t worthy of credit for their success under other coaches. Is Lloyd Carr responsible for all Brady’s rings?

Grier drafted the players in 1996 after Tuna walked out.

Because there are people directly responsible who deserve the credit without trying to share credit with a guy who didn’t win here because we win 5 years after he left.
You sound like Jeff fisher

There is a difference between acknowledging contributions and being responsible.

Fisher should be acknowledged for picking some of the Rams players. He made some good choices. Was he responsible for their 11-5 year. Of course not. He was a ****ty coach which is why he was canned.

You are totally misrepresenting what I am saying.

 

[n1997y]

bb saw right through weasel woody johnson, hated steve gutman and was tired of being parcells’s puppet when he knew he was superior to parcells.

parcells knew much of his success was directly due to bb

very obvious

Bill seems to be a good judge of character. This from the Vikings story posted above:

“Then at 6 o’clock the next morning, I was up and ready to go to the office and Bill calls me. He says, ‘Les, I need to tell you something. I’m at the airport and I’m going home (to the New York area).’ I say, ‘But Bill, we haven’t even had a chance to sit down and talk yet.’ He said, ‘Les, I’ve talked to several people in the building and I would just like to say to you that you had better be alert, you had better be aware. I just don’t have a good feeling, Les.’ ”

Steckel tried to get Belichick to say who he had spoken with and why he had an uneasy feeling.

“He just said, ‘Hopefully, you’ll see,’ ” Steckel sad. “He said, ‘I don’t want to go any further, and I have to go catch this flight.’ And that was it.”

To this day, Steckel isn’t sure why Belichick turned down the job and who he spoke with at Winter Park. He does know he talked with then-general manger Mike Lynn, who would fire Steckel a year later.