Raiders lose Khalif Barnes for 6-8 weeks. Maybe our in?

[Box_O_Rocks]

The just resigned Seth Wand and waived a rookie tight end Chris O'Neill out of Boise.

Which settles that, I didn't see BB trading any OT this early in camp - and after all the hollering over keeping Brady upright and in one piece the idea of trading a starting tackle, or any tackle for that matter, takes the preseason paranoia straight to Ludicrous Speed!

Unavailable for trade due to injury:
-- LeVoir is on PUP, hardly trade bait and after last season too valuable to trade. (Heh Patriots.com, any reason you don't have LeVoir listed on your roster?)
-- O'C is nursing yet another injury, poor kid is seriously snakebit.
-- Bussey is a rookie fifth rounder, no trade value.

Critical for the roster as of one week into Training Camp:
-- Light has been getting veteran timeouts.
-- Kaczur is a four year starter despite the constant whines on this forum.
-- Britt is a swing tackle who doesn't come close to the value Oakland has been reported to want for Burgess - and at this point of the season he's too valuable as insurance with LeVoir on PUP.
-- Vollmer is going nowhere and is still too raw.

As things currently stand, NE has starters Light and Kaczur, and reserve swing tackles Vollmer and Britt still standing, that's damned thin after one week of Training Camp. Seriously folks, if you're going to argue for trading Kaczur or any other OT this early, you might want to switch to decaffeinated and find a new therapist.

 

[Patjew]

Which settles that, I didn't see BB trading any OT this early in camp - and after all the hollering over keeping Brady upright and in one piece the idea of trading a starting tackle, or any tackle for that matter, takes the preseason paranoia straight to Ludicrous Speed!

Unavailable for trade due to injury:
-- LeVoir is on PUP, hardly trade bait and after last season too valuable to trade. (Heh Patriots.com, any reason you don't have LeVoir listed on your roster?)
-- O'C is nursing yet another injury, poor kid is seriously snakebit.
-- Bussey is a rookie fifth rounder, no trade value.

Critical for the roster as of one week into Training Camp:
-- Light has been getting veteran timeouts.
-- Kaczur is a four year starter despite the constant whines on this forum.
-- Britt is a swing tackle who doesn't come close to the value Oakland has been reported to want for Burgess - and at this point of the season he's too valuable as insurance with LeVoir on PUP.
-- Vollmer is going nowhere and is still too raw.

As things currently stand, NE has starters Light and Kaczur, and reserve swing tackles Vollmer and Britt still standing, that's damned thin after one week of Training Camp. Seriously folks, if you're going to argue for trading Kaczur or any other OT this early, you might want to switch to decaffeinated and find a new therapist.

Stop the sanity, BOR.

 

[patchick]

Seriously folks, if you're going to argue for trading Kaczur or any other OT this early, you might want to switch to decaffeinated and find a new therapist.

Give up my caffeine??? Never!

I'm not arguing for it, just musing over fair value. And the answer I came up with was Kaczur. (Nothing against him -- on the contrary, the point is that O'Callaghan et al wouldn't carry enough value.) But you're absolutely right that the current injury situation makes any such trade impracticable.

 

[mgteich]

Britt plus a 4th makes sense, but I don't think it will happen.

 

[DaBruinz]

Maybe LeVoir, O'Callaghan or Britt.

Please, please not Sea Bass!!

Why would you trade LeVoir? He is your incumbent swing tackle. O'Callaghan and Britt are the ones on the outside looking in. And, right now, one of those two or potentially Kaczur would be better options in trade than LeVoir.

 

[DaBruinz]

why didn't we sign Greg Ellis when we had the chance? Seriously, he's better than Derrick Burgess and has played in a 3-4. All it would have taken was to up our offer from 1.5 to 3.5 million. I would have done that in a heartbeat. 2 million more for a pass rush.

The Pats did try. Ellis just wanted more money than they felt he was worth.

Because the Pats don't have all that much cap room.

The Pats had and have plenty of cap room to have signed Ellis. The problem was that Ellis wanted bigger numbers than the Pats were willing to offer him.

 

[captain stone]

The Faiders would be looking for a LT, so that eliminates ROC. I ass-ume, of course, that Barnes has been playing LT for them.

Maybe after a couple of pre-season games, and if Light & Kaczur are healthy, and if SeaBass looks as if he can handle the swing duties, then I would offer Al one of Britt or LeVoir, plus one of our 5th-rounders, for Burgess.

Now, if one of Vollmer, ROC, LeVoir or Britt looks like a Starting-Caliber RT, then perhaps Kaczur could be expendable.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

The Pats had and have plenty of cap room to have signed Ellis. The problem was that Ellis wanted bigger numbers than the Pats were willing to offer him.

$5M today is not enough cap room to offer a player $3.5M, when you account for injury reserves, players 52 and 53, and the PS salaries.

 

[fgssand]

I think Burgess was all-pro only one year, wasn't he? in 2005?

He made the pro bowl in 2006 but wasn't all-pro

Still an excellent player, of course

I think he is an excellent player, but NOT for our system for the reasons I mentioned earlier and what you read below.

Here is a socuts inc report


2009 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 72 | Key
Alert: None

Comment: Burgess made only 10 starts last season. He is an accomplished pass rusher who has explosive burst off the ball and a good feel for bringing pressure off the edge. As an undersized DE, he can get under OL's pads quickly and show good use of hands and body lean. He knows how to set up his moves as an edge rusher and he has a good understanding of pass-rush sequence. Burgess is quick and athletic. He has above average strength when attempting power moves and he understands how to play with leverage. As a run defender, Burgess has good quickness in space and closes with good burst. He can chase down ball carriers from the backside and he uses his hands well to separate from blockers versus the run. Burgess has adequate strength to hold his ground against the run, but his lack of size can be an issue. He will give ground against strong offensive tackles. .

 

[spacecrime]

I think he is an excellent player, but NOT for our system for the reasons I mentioned earlier and what you read below.

Here is a socuts inc report


2009 Scouting Report - Scouts Inc.
Grade: 72 | Key
Alert: None

Comment: Burgess made only 10 starts last season. He is an accomplished pass rusher who has explosive burst off the ball and a good feel for bringing pressure off the edge. As an undersized DE, he can get under OL's pads quickly and show good use of hands and body lean. He knows how to set up his moves as an edge rusher and he has a good understanding of pass-rush sequence. Burgess is quick and athletic. He has above average strength when attempting power moves and he understands how to play with leverage. As a run defender, Burgess has good quickness in space and closes with good burst. He can chase down ball carriers from the backside and he uses his hands well to separate from blockers versus the run. Burgess has adequate strength to hold his ground against the run, but his lack of size can be an issue. He will give ground against strong offensive tackles. .

What in this report says he isn't a good fit in our system? The only issue seems to be lack of size and getting pushed back by strong OTs, but that is size as a DE not OLB. At 260, he is Vrabel sized. Most any OLB we've had except WMG would get pushed back trying to bull rush an OT.

 

[fgssand]

What in this report says he isn't a good fit in our system? The only issue seems to be lack of size and getting pushed back by strong OTs, but that is size as a DE not OLB. At 260, he is Vrabel sized. Most any OLB we've had except WMG would get pushed back trying to bull rush an OT.

The report coupled with I wrote above and the fact he has very limited time playing in a 3-4 led me to that conclusion - think we have a few speed rushers from the outside (TBC, Crable) but very few edge setters (Woods).

 

[Reckedtrek]

Why would you trade LeVoir? He is your incumbent swing tackle. O'Callaghan and Britt are the ones on the outside looking in. And, right now, one of those two or potentially Kaczur would be better options in trade than LeVoir.

I agree with you on this. Since I posted, I've thought about it more and I've been thinking along these same lines. Doesn't look like they'll need one of ours anyway, at least at this point.

 

[robb01]

Britt plus a 4th makes sense, but I don't think it will happen.

doubt it as well

 

[Dragda]

I hear Burgess hasn't shown up at camp yet.

 

[fgssand]

What in this report says he isn't a good fit in our system? The only issue seems to be lack of size and getting pushed back by strong OTs, but that is size as a DE not OLB. At 260, he is Vrabel sized. Most any OLB we've had except WMG would get pushed back trying to bull rush an OT.

HA - I told ya so

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Because the Pats don't have all that much cap room.

that depends on whether you really believe there is a salary "cap"

 

[spacecrime]

The report coupled with I wrote above and the fact he has very limited time playing in a 3-4 led me to that conclusion - think we have a few speed rushers from the outside (TBC, Crable) but very few edge setters (Woods).

Well, I read that scouting report differently than you did. I see it as all positives. I think he will be just fine in our system, and see him as an everydown player.

Don't get too hung up on whether or not a guy has limited playing time in 3-4 vs 4-3, 1-gap vs 2-gap, ILB vs OLB, SILB vs WILB, Slot vs Wideout, etc etc etc.

Once guys get to the Pats, the first thing they do is work on different positions. Rather than a weakness, it is a strength. Having Vrabel learn ILB, Troy learn CB, Hockstein lean to snap and be a lead (FB) blocker, etc etc is a strength of this team.

If he has played a position and done it poorly, that is one thing, but if he has never played th position but is a great athlete, there is no reason to assume that he will suddenly be unable to rush the passer.

My 2 cents.