Profootballtalk draft

[ctpatsfan77]

And even then, the Giants had two throw in two more picks to balance it off....whichever ones were used to draft Merriman (#14 or so overall) and Kaeding (which was a fourth or fifth rounder).

So you'd have to get a team that wanted a particular player so badly that they were willing to trade three rookies for him. I don't think that player is Matt Ryan.

Just to be clear--that aspect of the trade was to even things up on the Blessed Value Chart of Saint James; it didn't help the Giants sign Sheli.

 

[dryheat44]

Just to be clear--that aspect of the trade was to even things up on the Blessed Value Chart of Saint James; it didn't help the Giants sign Sheli.

Oh, I imagine it did, even if it was somewhat unintentional. If you have your rookie cap, and your acquiring the #1 pick of the draft, you have to make room in your rookie cap. The difference in contract value between the #1 pick and the #4 pick is surprisingly large.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Oh, I imagine it did, even if it was somewhat unintentional. If you have your rookie cap, and your acquiring the #1 pick of the draft, you have to make room in your rookie cap. The difference in contract value between the #1 pick and the #4 pick is surprisingly large.

Remember--when you trade away a draft pick, you lose that extra cap room; in theory, at least, the space in the rookie cap allocated for each pick should be enough to get that player signed. Losing those two picks reduced their cap proportionally, so there certainly wouldn't be any extra room for Sheli.

 

[jeffbiologist]

While you didn't mention EXACT numbers, you did say that the Patriots would have to used the cap money (over 5 million) from Matt Light's contract on Matt Light's replacement at LT. I was pointing out to you that you were incorrect with that notion.



There have been plenty of guards who are taken in the 1st round of draft. Tackles are thought to be more valuable because most left tackles are protecting the "blindside" of the right-handed quarterbacks. There is the rare left-handed quarterback (Leinhart, Garcia) who requires an exceptional RT to protect their blindside.

Also, Mankins, if he wasn't drafted by the Patriots, was going to be taken by the 49ers with the next pick. Also, if you believe that guards aren't as valuable as tackles, then can you explain to my why Steve Hutchinson (ALL-PRO offensive guard formerly of the Seahawks and now with the Vikings) was so highly sought and given the highest contract of any o-lineman at the time?



You attempted to use Ugoh as an example of forward thinking when, in reality, the Colts trading up to get Ugoh was them scrambling to ensure that they had coverage at the LT position since they weren't sure if Glenn was going to be around or not.



Please do not presume to tell me what I meant when its clear that your interpretation is the problem. While you "don't see a problem with drafting the best football player available despite position in most cases" that doesn't mean that its not a sure way to screw a team over. The fact is that there are only 2 or 3 teams that have a scouting department as extensive as the Patriots do.

The last time the Pats were "incredibly deep at LB" was 2001. But they were running a 4-3 at the time. They had Vrabel, T. Johnson, Bruschi, Phifer, Cox, Chatham, and Izzo. I guess you could say that they were deep in 2003 prior to Colvin going down since they had Colvin, T. Johnson, Bruschi, Phifer, McGinest, Chatham, TBC and Vrabel.




It is mandated that any 1st year/rookie player has to be signed to a contract that pays them no less than 295K.

After the draft, teams are told how much they can spend, salary cap wise, on signing their draft picks. This is called the rookie pool. 1st round picks are slotted. This means that each draft pick in the 1st round has a particular amount of money that can be spent on it. As was mentioned, when a PLAYER is traded, the salary cap money is not. And there is a significant different between the money slotted at #7 and the money sloted for #14 and the money slotted for #32.

The league also has stipulated that 1st round picks from pick #1 to Pick#16 can be signed to a maximum of 6 years. The rest of the 1st round picks can be signed to a maximum of 5 years. All other draft picks outside the 1st round can only be signed for a maximum of 4 years.

When you found this forum doesn't mean a damn thing. The information I've gone over is not new and certainly not exclusive to this site. Its information that came out of the last collective bargaining agreement and available to anyone who read the newspaper or who was inclined to be knowledgable about the workings of the league they follow.

Hey, differing opinions is the great thing about forums. Thanks for being overly patient with my lack of knowledge on this particular subject. It doesnt make much sense from a free market perspective, but rules are rules. My homework is more along the sexy lines of player evaluation,lol. As far as LBs go, you forgot Don Davis(albeit STer). My point was that it wasnt too long ago that THAT was the strength of our defense/team. If we werent so deep then imagine where we would be now.....If we draft Ryan and Brady goes down we look good, if he doesnt we look bad. Alot of things like that are beyond your control so if you have him rated much higher than #8 player and cant trade you take him anyways. You want to tell me a team like Carolina this year wouldnt have sold us their soul for him? There is always going to be a team like that, just as there is always going to be a team deep at QB. That said, I would rather trade out of that problem. Thanks again,J

 

[DaBruinz]

Remember--when you trade away a draft pick, you lose that extra cap room; in theory, at least, the space in the rookie cap allocated for each pick should be enough to get that player signed. Losing those two picks reduced their cap proportionally, so there certainly wouldn't be any extra room for Sheli.

You only lose the extra cap room in that particular year. So, while the Giants traded a 3rd round pick in the 2004 draft (which became Kaeding), they also traded their 1st rounder in the 2005 draft. That 1st rounder had NO BEARING on reducing their 2004 rookie cap. The money allocated for a 3rd rounder is a drop is nothing in comparison between the 1st and 4th picks in the draft.

 

[DaBruinz]

Hey, differing opinions is the great thing about forums. Thanks for being overly patient with my lack of knowledge on this particular subject. It doesnt make much sense from a free market perspective, but rules are rules. My homework is more along the sexy lines of player evaluation,lol. As far as LBs go, you forgot Don Davis(albeit STer). My point was that it wasnt too long ago that THAT was the strength of our defense/team. If we werent so deep then imagine where we would be now.....If we draft Ryan and Brady goes down we look good, if he doesnt we look bad. Alot of things like that are beyond your control so if you have him rated much higher than #8 player and cant trade you take him anyways. You want to tell me a team like Carolina this year wouldnt have sold us their soul for him? There is always going to be a team like that, just as there is always going to be a team deep at QB. That said, I would rather trade out of that problem. Thanks again,J

The Patriots draft by best VALUE available. The Pats formula basically is this: Physcial attibutes + Intangibles + Team Need = Value. So, while Ryan may be the best PLAYER (attributes + intagibles), he wouldn't be the best value for the Patriots because the NEED isn't there. Also, you need to remember that the Patriots are one of only 3 teams in the entire league who do NOT use Ourlads or Scouts, INC. as their scouting agency. The Pats have their own scouts who they use to do talent evaluation and there is a very complex way that the Pats go about setting up their draft board.

There was an article on it a few years back and it was astounding to get a glimpse into the minds of Belichick and Pioli, but you could tell that it was dumbed down for the readers.