Post Game Thread- Pats beat the Chiefs

[mosi]

Didn't they have an illegal procedure penalty?

It was declined.

 

[luuked]

The problem, again, is that the points are NEVER irrelevant. To any conversation regarding sports in general. Since, you know, points win games.

The outcome can be pretty irrelevant if you are trying to judge calls as something that has a genius design and succeeds in 80% of the cases might fail in that specific instance and something that is an awful low percentage idea might succeed. Just because one of the two succeeded and the other failed (i.e. one made points the other didnt) doesn't make the successful one a good call.

Similarly it is pointless to look at the success KC had in the second half and ignore that a lot of their issues in the first half had to do with execution.

Regarding the bolded, where are you getting this from?

That is what I saw. I didn't see even close to the amount of advanced disguises in the second half as in the first. You don't have 20 of them going into a game and can just use one every 4 plays. I think they just used a lot of their ammunition in the first half to jump out fast. I mean the most confusing look they gave Mahomes in the entire second half was the cover 0 call.

I have no qualms with the first half defense. They were fine. The second half defense was near catastrophic. They were so bad that you have to use the fact that they had busted coverages in order to defend them - as if that suddenly makes it good defense.

I saw a defense that played well for 90% of the game against an absolute elite offense and at times against their own offense (turnovers) and ST (returns). As Schofield has said in his Podcast, given the context the defense played essentially a game where they gave up 27-30 points. Which I will take any day against an offense like KC.

Again you keep ignoring the context of how the game ended up so close. With the offense turning the ball over twice, short fields and ST mishaps.

Chatham is a Patriots fart sniffer. If he calls the defense in the second half "good," then it's just another example of why many can't, and don't, take him seriously.

I don't even get why you keep referring to it as first half and second half defense. It is the same unit and they played for 60 minutes. It is an overall performance. But keep being negative if that floats your boat. Given how things looked a few weeks ago against Detroit I am pretty happy with where the defense is. I think that overall this might be the most solid team we have had in a while. Maybe since 2014.

 

[bresna]

I hate the new "Leading with the helmet" rule but I do understand why it's been put in place - to protect the players. So riddle me this one Batman:


Next week, when Brady shows up on the injury report as "Limited" due to a left knee contusion, we know why?

And that Chief is lucky he didn't get concussed.

 

[mosi]

The Chief’s have figured a way to hold us and not get called for it. I saw it last year with Berry on Gronkowski. I was it last night. It is weird that this refs were not heavily penalizing them.

The refs missed lots of things last night. On that long run kick return, I swear Slater was basically held and subsequently pushed down from the back. That is what sprung the KC guy.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

The points are irrelevant for this discussion. Mahomes didn't figure anything out in the second half. You had a brainfart from JMac, that blown Harmon coverage, the Brady fumble and a ST return to the goal line account for 21-24 points. That has nothing to do with Kansas figuring anything out or with schematic changes.

They simply made the plays they didn't in the first half.

Do we know for sure if that Hunt touchdown was because of a JMac brain fart? It looked like he was responsible for the flat area in zone, but Mahomes escaped the pocket and Hunt slipped behind the coverage

I’m not trying to be a dink or something, just genuinely curious if there is enough evidence to suggest that was a blown coverage by JMac or just a bad play for that situation?

 

[luuked]

Do we know for sure if that Hunt touchdown was because of a JMac brain fart? It looked like he was responsible for the flat area in zone, but Mahomes escaped the pocket and Hunt slipped behind the coverage

I’m not trying to be a dink or something, just genuinely curious if there is enough evidence to suggest that was a blown coverage by JMac or just a bad play for that situation?

The brainfart I am referring to is that JMac lost track of Hunt when he supposedly peeked back and lost a few steps on him.

I will add this into the rewatch thread but my recollection of the play is that DMac saw Hill run a slant inside and broke towards him leaving JMac on an island with Hunt. Now the slant was the considerably easier throw to complete for Mahomes so I will definitely not question DMac's decision on that.

Then again Mahomes might have escaped the pocket but he was still being pressured by our defenders. It was not as if he had time to stop and set. He threw a pitch perfect pass right into where Hunt was going while sliding to the right.

I am not sure how many QBs are able to make that throw. Rodgers and Mahomes I suppose.

I don't think this was a blown coverage at all.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Didn't they have an illegal procedure penalty?

Illegal formation, but it was declined.

 

[Tunescribe]

My Pats Fans fantasy team scored 173.68 points and I'm still waiting on Green Bay's defense to play tonight.

A pox on you as well. Here is the lamentable forecast of what you and your fellow Millennial attention-deficit fantasy twits are in the process of creating:

 

[TommyD4207]

Dillon, CMart..who is #3?

Jim Nance, about 40 yards behind Martin.

 

[Coolade2]

...and is on a pace for a 1200 yd season

Interesting... Maybe someone realized the best thing for a 41 year old QB is handing the ball off..

 

[Joey007]

Boy pisses me off . I hate it when they run it down to 3 seconds. I'd run it down to 5 seconds in case there is a fumble by the holder. Just adds a level of protection and is a pet peeve of mine

I hear ya. But after what Mahomes did on the drive before, I do NOT want to leave him a single second on the clock.

 

[condon84]

Michel showed some acceleration that he didn't have the first few games.

Brady to Gordon needs to be ironed out, but the fact that Brady went to him more than any receiver is great news.

Gronk/Edelman/Gordon, top 3 receiving threat is as good as it gets. White coming out of the backfield, Michel running the rock. Plus Hogan/Dorsett as the 4th and 5th option. Yeah our offense won't have problems scoring.

Hightower was a beast last night.

Van Noy missed some open field tackles that would have force 4th down. At least two from my recollection.

Flowers was also a beast.

Not sure what the count was, but it looked like we blitzed on key downs quite a bit. On those long TD passes, did we blitz on those? Can't remember.

Looks like there were some miscommunication in the defensive backfield on those long plays. It's a concern but that can be fixed.

Still not a fan of our LB situation, but this defense can tighten up and will probably do so by the end of the year.

Great win.

 

[condon84]

My Pats Fans fantasy team scored 173.68 points and I'm still waiting on Green Bay's defense to play tonight.

Money league i'm in I scored 197. My team has Mahomes, Hill, and Hunt. I went all KC this year and it's paying off. Plus i got Diggs, James White, Emmanuel Sanders.

 

[DaBruinz]

I may be in the minority but I didn't think the defense was that great in the first half. Yes they had two interceptions. One was a good one in the other one was thrown right to Hightower.

This Patriots team was clearly lucky to hold them two three field goals in the first half. They couldn't do that in the second half and the Chiefs exploded for 31 points.

The one "thrown right to Hightower" was because Hightower dropped back off the line instead of continuing to rush the passer. That was BY DESIGN.

The Defense held the Chiefs to 9 points over 5 series. We saw what happens when the Chiefs explode..

 

[RobertWeathers]

Interesting... Maybe someone realized the best thing for a 41 year old QB is handing the ball off..

I've been screaming for years for them to land a young, yard chewing, TD producing RB who can break runs

...and health-permitting, they have him now

 

[luuked]

The one "thrown right to Hightower" was because Hightower dropped back off the line instead of continuing to rush the passer. That was BY DESIGN.

The Defense held the Chiefs to 9 points over 5 series. We saw what happens when the Chiefs explode..

Will post a short dissect of this play in the rewatch thread in 10 or so but I am just amazed by the people here sometimes. You have Hightower not only reading the RPO correctly but also playing his disguise perfectly to the point where Mahomes never saw him drop underneath after the initial read and then people call this luck.

That pick right there was coaching and execution at its best. There was absolutely nothing lucky about it.

 

[DaBruinz]

I would agree if not more than half of those was result of plays by the offense or ST that created very short fields.

You're saying that 21 points by the Patriots were created by the defense and Special teams play?

 

[DaBruinz]

I would agree. They could have scored 30 plus either way.

D did a lot of things well:
Run D
Limiting Kelce - likely was BB point of emphasis.
Limiting Hunt at times
Good coverage on their other WRs.
Hightower was very disruptive
Elandon played well
Good disruption and edge rush most of the game, good contain on QB

Very bad:
Lack of focus on Hill
No adjustments or physicality thrown at Hill
We have JJ and Rowe and Gilmore but the McCourties are covering him?
KVN played hesitant and led to the missed tackles. He didn’t play fast and use his help on the second one was more concerning
Did Rivers play?

I agree with most everything you've said, but:

Did you watch the game last night when Rowe was on the field? He was lost. He was arguing with DMac about where to line up.

Jmac played a helluva game overall.

I don't get where this "KVN played hesitant" is coming from.. Could you cite actual plays?

 

[luuked]

You're saying that 21 points by the Patriots were created by the defense and Special teams play?

Nah I just misread his post. I thought he was talking about giving up 40 points is not MEH. I didn't realize he was talking about offense.

 

[sieglo]

And yeah, all the fawning may be tiresome, but I think the NFL might finally have itself the next real deal in Mahomes.

I really don't understand this sentiment. We see crappy early-career QBs light up the Pats D all the time. It's a Belichick specialty, it's been going on for YEARS and none of these guys ever amount to anything.

If Mahomes is still playing at a high level in three years, then I'll be impressed.