Pondering the "Patriot Way"...

[supafly]

Agreed. Where I take issue is in the idea that selecting AH in the draft equals the Patriots deciding to be un-Patriot like. Is there instances in the first half of BB's reign that show guys with red flags were avoided at all costs? Or did value then, just as value now, trump everything (with the exception of SERIOUS red flags like.....ummm....a murder charge)? Quite honestly the only thing I remember about the Patriots' drafting back then is that they wanted guys who had proven to work hard at their job, proven to put the success of the team high, could be coached, and had a level of football smarts. Do I recall that wrong? If not is there instances now that say the Patriots do not do that?

The "Patriot Way" was very much alive and well during their decision to take AH with the 113th overall pick in the 4th round.

They felt that there was a ton of value there for a mid-round pick, and that they weren't risking too much if it didn't work out. On top of that he came highly regarded from good friend and respected champion coach, Urban Meyer.

As far as all of these supposed character concern stories that are suddenly now coming out--notice how our reporters didn't have nearly 1/2 as much to say about anything close to that at the time. Bedard certainly wasn't coming anywhere close to touching on some of the things that he originally wrote about when the choice happened.

Why people associate the "Patriot Way" with ONLY drafting or bringing in choir boys is beyond me. It's never once been that way. One of the biggest traits in the PW is that they believe in getting good value, and this case was a prime example of that. Notice how we don't risk much with our 1st rounders too often and choose to bring in captains, 4 yr starters, and highly intelligent players. Choosing to take a flier on a kid in the 4th round who had smoked pot isn't exactly straying too far from your values.

A much better question would be: why didn't they include a clause in the second deal if they were so concerned with all of these enormous red flags? Or better yet, why did they throw around a 5/40 second pact only 2 yrs into the rookie deal if they were so concerned and were hearing rumors etc?

 

[supafly]

If Bill wanted a Safety with his 1st-rounder, then he should've drafted Eric Weddle.

I don't fault the Maroney & CJack picks from the prior year, because both were 2 of the best available players
at those picks (though I preferred DeAngelo Williams at RB, LaMa was still my #2), and neither of them
had reputations of idiocracy like the Stomper did. That dummy had no business wearing a Patriots uniform,
from both a football/value and a citizen standpoint, and Bill should've known that.

Hindsight is always 20/20 in regard to taking another player in the draft, but why exactly do you feel that Meriweather was such a horrible choice?

Aside from Polamulu, no one had more turnovers caused in the AFC during the time that Meriweather was here. I don't remember a ton of character concerns like you seem to be insinuating, but I could be wrong.

 

[JMC00]

The hack jason whitlock has chimed in saying Belichick and Kraft are from far innocent in this whole thing.

Bill Belichick, Robert Kraft should have known better in Aaron Hernandez situation - NFL News | FOX Sports on MSN

What about Belichick’s transition? We’ve been hailing him as a genius for a decade, crediting him for winning the Patriots Way, with the right kind of high-character players. He hasn’t won a Super Bowl since 2004. He’s getting a little desperate and sloppy.

Ya because Belichick should have known back in 2010 that Hernandez might decide to commit murder. So he must be getting desperate and sloppy. Guy's got 5 SB rings, 3 as a HC (tied for 2nd most all time), he's real desperate.

I tell you what I bet the Patriots are in the bottom of the league on having bad character guys on over the last 13 years.

Some idiot decides to murder someone and the media immediately start putting it on Belichick and Kraft because this is really the first time ever they can come after them on something like this and they've been dying to since 2007.

 

[Mogamedogz]

Whenever I hear the Term "Patriot Way" touted as some holier than thou motto, I get physically ill. What a crock.

You know what the Patriot Way is?? WIN AT ALL COSTS.

Same as 31 other teams.


Im almost looking forward to the looming return of the "lean years". This way 90% of the Fanboy Jock sniffers return to where ever they were before the Brady era.

 

[supafly]

Whenever I hear the Term "Patriot Way" touted as some holier than thou motto, I get physically ill. What a crock.

You know what the Patriot Way is?? WIN AT ALL COSTS.

Same as 31 other teams.


Im almost looking forward to the looming return of the "lean years". This way 90% of the Fanboy Jock sniffers return to where ever they were before the Brady era.

Not so sure that I agree with "win at ALL costs," but I'd certainly agree that winning both now and in the future would obviously be the top priority.

I'd be interested in hearing how many of my 14 examples that you'd agree with on page 4 (post 32) in this thread.

I think it's a lot more than what most people think, and it isn't nearly immediately based on chooisng choir boy players like most people somehow think. It never was. They've taken plenty of chances with lesser character players if they felt the value was there and the incident in question wasn't severe enough to warrant crossing them off of the board.

 

[supafly]

The hack jason whitlock has chimed in saying Belichick and Kraft are from far innocent in this whole thing.

Bill Belichick, Robert Kraft should have known better in Aaron Hernandez situation - NFL News | FOX Sports on MSN



Ya because Belichick should have known back in 2010 that Hernandez might decide to commit murder. So he must be getting desperate and sloppy. Guy's got 5 SB rings, 3 as a HC (tied for 2nd most all time), he's real desperate.

I tell you what I bet the Patriots are in the bottom of the league on having bad character guys on over the last 13 years.

Some idiot decides to murder someone and the media immediately start putting it on Belichick and Kraft because this is really the first time ever they can come after them on something like this and they've been dying to since 2007.

See, this is the aspect of the media that I just cannot deal with very well. I can accept getting certain technical aspects of a story wrong much easier than I can writing articles that reek of bias and BS.

Where were all of these articles on these concerns when they took him 3 yrs ago? Answer..besides some talk about marijuana, they were nowhere to be found.

It's funny to see stuff like this popping up now as hindsight is always 20/20, but AH's main concern coming out of school was his pot smoking issue--which at the time made him miss a total of ONE college game at FL.

He also came with high praise from Urban Meyer and Belichick was privvy to watching practices with his own eyes. The bottom line is that they felt that there was sufficient value by taking him with a mid round pick, and I don't blame them one bit. There wasn't much to go on that he'd somehow end up committing violent acts, so anyone who tries to claim that now is just fooling themself in my opinion.

 

[DarrylS]

See, this is the aspect of the media that I just cannot deal with very well. I can accept getting certain technical aspects of a story wrong much easier than I can writing articles that reek of bias and BS.

Where were all of these articles on these concerns when they took him 3 yrs ago? Answer..besides some talk about marijuana, they were nowhere to be found.

It's funny to see stuff like this popping up now as hindsight is always 20/20, but AH's main concern coming out of school was his pot smoking issue--which at the time made him miss a total of ONE college game at FL.

He also came with high praise from Urban Meyer and Belichick was privvy to watching practices with his own eyes. The bottom line is that they felt that there was sufficient value by taking him with a mid round pick, and I don't blame them one bit. There wasn't much to go on that he'd somehow end up committing violent acts, so anyone who tries to claim that now is just fooling themself in my opinion.

He also escaped the scrutiny of NFL and Patriots Security, even if he committed the murder in '12 the police did not link him to that until yesterday.... so a lot of folks missed what this kid allegedly did.

Mr. Kraft and BB are not investigators, so they have to rely on others..

This kid was able to fly under the radar well... but, apparently he seems to have led a double life...

 

[mgteich]

This has never been the patriot philosophy, certainly not since Kraft bought the team.

You may wish that we operated like the Raiders, the Redskins, or the Ravens, but we don't.

Whenever I hear the Term "Patriot Way" touted as some holier than thou motto, I get physically ill. What a crock.

You know what the Patriot Way is?? WIN AT ALL COSTS.

Same as 31 other teams.


Im almost looking forward to the looming return of the "lean years". This way 90% of the Fanboy Jock sniffers return to where ever they were before the Brady era.

 

[Shockt327]

Something has indeed changed. Sure, in the past, the team looked the other way when star players (like Law) were in touchy situations. However, things have come a long way when we knowingly draft players with character and legal issues. Personally, and it is a personal opinion, I don't think that Hernandez or Dennard would have been drafted by the patriots a few years ago. I'm not sure Gronk's off the field behavior would be have tolerated.

So, yes. patriots have changed.

Folks have suggested that the "patriot way" is do whatever it takes to win. Players are required to produce on the filed, and their behavior off the field is irrelevant. IMHO, that is the RAIDER way, not the patriot way.

Nonsense.

They drafted Brandon Merriweather in 07. Merriweather was involved in a shooting on the campus of Florida. Everyone knew this, even in the media (unlike AH's gang relations).

edit: Oh, and they traded for Corey Dillon after chronicling his entire criminal history before the trade. They knew.

 

[Shockt327]

Who invented this **** concept "Patriot Way"?

The media.

Now it's a straw-man being used against them. I've never heard BB proclaim that there was a "Patriot Way."

 

[Mack Herron]

Nonsense.

They drafted Brandon Merriweather in 07. Merriweather was involved in a shooting on the campus of Florida. Everyone knew this, even in the media (unlike AH's gang relations).

edit: Oh, and they traded for Corey Dillon after chronicling his entire criminal history before the trade. They knew.

These examples merely show that the threshold was not zero tolerance, but they do not negate the assertion that things have changed. If they have, here is possible reason: The NFL tilts the field against continued success for instance by having successful teams draft late and get last chance at the waiver wire. There would have to be compensatory strategies to maintain the same quality on the field.

 

[primetime]

This has never been the patriot philosophy, certainly not since Kraft bought the team.

You may wish that we operated like the Raiders, the Redskins, or the Ravens, but we don't.

The Patriots have had more players with known 'red flags' than the Ravens or Redskins over the years. The Ravens had one very high profile guy in Ray Lewis, I'm not even sure who the Redskins had.

 

[primetime]

The Patriot Way, CliffNotes version:

1) Have Tom Brady
2) Prosper

 

[mgteich]

The issue is the strategy of running a team. The issue of the OP was "win at any cost". Signing players with character issues is one small part of such a strategy.

The Redskins were "win at any cost" by using all their resources each year to win this year, in the draft, and in free agency. There is no view of the future.

The Raiders had that philosophy for years (less so now). What they required was production on Sunday, no more, no less.

The Ravens famously completely tubes the future in 2001 to win at any cost. It took them years to recover.

The Patriots have had more players with known 'red flags' than the Ravens or Redskins over the years. The Ravens had one very high profile guy in Ray Lewis, I'm not even sure who the Redskins had.

 

[PatsDeb]

Sorry I haven't read through the whole thread, so I don't know what others have said, but what gets me is why the Pats gave AH that huge bonus/extension, when, based on Matt Light's comments alone, it could not have been a secret to the team that AH never left the gangbangers behind. Out here in the real world it appeared that AH was a good soldier and that the Pats giving him a chance by drafting him and keeping him for 3 years had worked out for the good and merited the extension (edit - I questioned the extension on his injury history, not character issues). But they had to have had way more information than us.

I guess the team gambled (and lost) that he had stayed "relatively" clean for those three years and his play outweighed the risks of his off-field behavior. It just surprises me that the Pats, Kraft in particular, really wanted to keep this guy after all that has come out this week, some of which cannot have been a surprise to the Pats as it was to us.

Then it makes me sad to think that maybe the reason the Pats kept AH is because a lot of NFL players live like this on the edge and that it is just the cost of doing business. Pay them the big bucks, hope they don't get into trouble, and if they do, dump them. Sigh.

 

[mgteich]

I agree with your analysis. The patriots knew the risks at the time of the draft and at the time of the extension. The team made a business judgement. Had Hernandez produced for another year, even the judgement of the extension would have been fine.

Sorry I haven't read through the whole thread, so I don't know what others have said, but what gets me is why the Pats gave AH that huge bonus/extension, when, based on Matt Light's comments alone, it could not have been a secret to the team that AH never left the gangbangers behind. Out here in the real world it appeared that AH was a good soldier and that the Pats giving him a chance by drafting him and keeping him for 3 years had worked out for the good and merited the extension (edit - I questioned the extension on his injury history, not character issues). But they had to have had way more information than us.

I guess the team gambled (and lost) that he had stayed "relatively" clean for those three years and his play outweighed the risks of his off-field behavior. It just surprises me that the Pats, Kraft in particular, really wanted to keep this guy after all that has come out this week, some of which cannot have been a surprise to the Pats as it was to us.

Then it makes me sad to think that maybe the reason the Pats kept AH is because a lot of NFL players live like this on the edge and that it is just the cost of doing business. Pay them the big bucks, hope they don't get into trouble, and if they do, dump them. Sigh.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Yup. And yup.

Here's the thing a lot of the unoriginal dime-a-dozen columnists are missing: There was no "Patriots Way" until AFTER THE TEAM WON SUPER BOWLS. WINNING WAS PART OF THE PACKAGE.

Sunday's Globe had a graphic with Volin's column showing the "risks" Pats have taken on guys who had been red flagged. After a week of copycat "lost their Way" commentary it was a good reminder to see the list going back to guys like Cox and Rodney. Hey, it's America -- people deserve second chances. And the Pats have always kept these guys on short leashes. Behave and perform while you're here, or else. That's always been "The Way." (Like I said in the other thread: How many times do you hear commentators say of a troubled player, 'Well, if there's any place he can turn it around, it's New England.'?)

This about sums it up.

 

[Shockt327]

I love how people are just sort of casually ignoring the difference between guys like Hernandez (whose problems occurred while in NE), and guys who were simply given a second chance -- almost a rehabilitation project -- after the problems occurred on another team. Big difference.

Haynesworth?
Dillon?
Moss?
Even totally vanilla "trouble-makers" like Rodney or Cox

These are guys who everyone already knew had red-flags (to varying degrees, at that). NE was the team giving them a second chance. If they worked out? They stayed. If not? Gone. How is this a negative thing? Why is NE suddenly taking the rap for all the history with these guys?

What's next? Are we going to blame The Eagles for the Mike Vick dog abuse, too?

 

[Tunescribe]

Sorry I haven't read through the whole thread, so I don't know what others have said, but what gets me is why the Pats gave AH that huge bonus/extension, when, based on Matt Light's comments alone, it could not have been a secret to the team that AH never left the gangbangers behind. Out here in the real world it appeared that AH was a good soldier and that the Pats giving him a chance by drafting him and keeping him for 3 years had worked out for the good and merited the extension (edit - I questioned the extension on his injury history, not character issues). But they had to have had way more information than us.

I guess the team gambled (and lost) that he had stayed "relatively" clean for those three years and his play outweighed the risks of his off-field behavior. It just surprises me that the Pats, Kraft in particular, really wanted to keep this guy after all that has come out this week, some of which cannot have been a surprise to the Pats as it was to us.

Then it makes me sad to think that maybe the reason the Pats kept AH is because a lot of NFL players live like this on the edge and that it is just the cost of doing business. Pay them the big bucks, hope they don't get into trouble, and if they do, dump them. Sigh.

I've also been wondering how pervasive the gang element is throughout the NFL and how much is just tolerated as "it is what it is." Do teams just dress it up as best they can and try to keep a lid on it? This crap gets so tiresome.

 

[patsfanincleveland]

Sorry I haven't read through the whole thread, so I don't know what others have said, but what gets me is why the Pats gave AH that huge bonus/extension, when, based on Matt Light's comments alone, it could not have been a secret to the team that AH never left the gangbangers behind. Out here in the real world it appeared that AH was a good soldier and that the Pats giving him a chance by drafting him and keeping him for 3 years had worked out for the good and merited the extension (edit - I questioned the extension on his injury history, not character issues). But they had to have had way more information than us.

I guess the team gambled (and lost) that he had stayed "relatively" clean for those three years and his play outweighed the risks of his off-field behavior. It just surprises me that the Pats, Kraft in particular, really wanted to keep this guy after all that has come out this week, some of which cannot have been a surprise to the Pats as it was to us.

Then it makes me sad to think that maybe the reason the Pats kept AH is because a lot of NFL players live like this on the edge and that it is just the cost of doing business. Pay them the big bucks, hope they don't get into trouble, and if they do, dump them. Sigh.

If the NFL excluded players on the edge.....there would be no NFL.

The simple reality is the organization can only be judged on the framework and environment in which they provide opportunity.

By all accounts that can be known, Hernandez was a valued player who really made an effort to get things turned around. Sometimes it can't be done.

Absent having a 24/7 babysitter or 24/7 constant tail, all you can do is hope they do turn it around.....or if you don't, second chances aren't in the vocabulary.

As Patriots fans, we should be completely confident that the organization gave him everything possible to succeed and no organization could have given a better chance to succeed.

Remember, a re tard like Jason Whitlock will complain about exploitation of poor minorities in athletics and then turn around and indict Belichick and Kraft.......for giving that opportunity.

Watch closely who comes up with the male bovine dung.