PFW: Comprehensive minicamp TE Analysis

[DaBruinz]

The next time you watch a agme, tell me how long and how often the camera is showing the offensive line and everything that's going on in the trenches. Of course you see Graham. He's usually helping on the outside pass rusher but you get a very limited look at the line as a whole.

They are on there long enough to discern who is supposed to be doing what. You'd know that if you actually watched the games instead of boozing it the entire time. And the TV replays, many times, show much of the line play.

 

[I'm Ron Borges?]

So, in your opinion, coaches are wasting their times reviewing films. Sorry, but you just made your opinion absolutely worthless on this subject matter.

Are you serious? Coaches film is nothing like the TV angle. Now, who is the one that's worthless on this subject matter? That is comical. You try to give me a dig and make yourself look like an idiot saying that coaches actually break down the TV feed and don't video tape the game themselves from up in the coaches box. Why do you think they do that? Because they're bored? Wow, great point buddy.

 

[I'm Ron Borges?]

I said not one word of agreement or disagreement about your 'personal opinion', nor did I in any way suggest that your post count had anything to do with the legitimacy of your opinions or your ability to post them.

T-Shirt,

My comment to Box was meant as a joke. If you or he took it the wrong way, I'm sorry but I still think his system has flaws in it. That's why coaches tape the offensive line play from the above so they can see everything that's going on. Other than Dabruins, who thinks they just watch the game on TV. My only point was I don't think us fans get a good enough look of the offensive line play just from watching the game on TV to say who is doing their job and who isn't. Sure, if a LT is getting beat for 3 sacks a game that's a telling sign but play-by-play, I think it's tough to disect the O-line from the view we see. I don't see any reason why we need to make this thread any longer. That's just my opinion of the situation.

 

[arrellbee]

... video tape the game themselves from up in the coaches box.

You're kidding, right ?? ?? ??

 

[T-ShirtDynasty]

T-Shirt,

My comment to Box was meant as a joke.

Then you need to work on your delivery because you came off sounding like a spoiled little snot-nosed teenager. (Here's a hint, humor is more easily recognized when you don't put words into people's mouths, like you did to Box, Me, and DaBruinz all in this single thread.) Either way, I just figured I'd clue you in as to why Box spends hours watching a single series in a game. It's really not as simple as "re-watching" a game as you joked.

If you or he took it the wrong way, I'm sorry but I still think his system has flaws in it.

'Course it does, but it IS the best we've got to go on. And we at PatsFans have considerably more to go on than other sites because of Box and Pats1 and others work with breaking down regular broadcast footage. And from experience I'd say this... you'd be surprised how much you can observe on the line when you pause, rewind, slow-mo, pause, rewind, slow-mo, over and over and over again on a single play. DVR is a godsend.

That's why coaches tape the offensive line play from the above so they can see everything that's going on. Other than Dabruins, who thinks they just watch the game on TV.

See, that's the putting words in people's mouths I was talking about that tends to raise hackles. Nobody here believes that Dabruinz thinks the coach relies on film from the CBS telecast to break down plays, and I'm sure you don't either. It's just clearly your attempt to try to make somebody else look dumb.

My only point was I don't think us fans get a good enough look of the offensive line play just from watching the game on TV to say who is doing their job and who isn't. Sure, if a LT is getting beat for 3 sacks a game that's a telling sign but play-by-play, I think it's tough to disect the O-line from the view we see.

It is tough, but that doesn't mean it's not accurate or valuable. Honestly try it before you critisize. When they were looking for volunteers to help break down series, I gave it a shot because I wanted to help. I had NO idea how hard it was, I think my first attempt at disecting a play, took about 10 or 15 minutes of pause/rewind/slow-mo with an occasional zoom-in on my DVR JUST to get the blocking noted on a single play. I was kinda stunned (and further proof that BOR needs medication) and gave up quickly. But even pausing/rewinding with Box's notes in hand following along comparing his notes to the action in the game, I think you'll be surprised what you can see. Seriously, try it. (Not that I'm holding my breath thinking I'll be able to change your mind.)

I don't see any reason why we need to make this thread any longer. That's just my opinion of the situation.

Agreed, and there's a very educational Fruit Smoothie thread going on somewhere around here that could use some love and attention. (People actually think that s#!t is healthy!)

 

[Pats726]

ONly so many players you can take into camp even. Guess they figure the guys they got are the ones and don't want to eat up other spots.

I would be surprised if they went in with only 4..that is thin..and an injury could make it a LOT harder..I agree, it's going to be tough to make it into camp...some interestingf decisions as the roster is pared down...

 

[spacecrime]

Are you serious? Coaches film is nothing like the TV angle. Now, who is the one that's worthless on this subject matter? That is comical. You try to give me a dig and make yourself look like an idiot saying that coaches actually break down the TV feed and don't video tape the game themselves from up in the coaches box. Why do you think they do that? Because they're bored? Wow, great point buddy.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

 

[I'm Ron Borges?]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Great post

 

[I'm Ron Borges?]

You're kidding, right ?? ?? ??

No, I'm not. Feel free to e-mail the Pats and ask them if they have some intern taping the games from the coaches box or not. If they so no, I'll apologize to everyone on here. Even T-shirt said everyone knows this is done but apparently you are not one of those people. My God, they even do that in high school for christ sakes.

 

[I'm Ron Borges?]

Then you need to work on your delivery because you came off sounding like a spoiled little snot-nosed teenager. (Here's a hint, humor is more easily recognized when you don't put words into people's mouths, like you did to Box, Me, and DaBruinz all in this single thread.) Either way, I just figured I'd clue you in as to why Box spends hours watching a single series in a game. It's really not as simple as "re-watching" a game as you joked.

'Course it does, but it IS the best we've got to go on. And we at PatsFans have considerably more to go on than other sites because of Box and Pats1 and others work with breaking down regular broadcast footage. And from experience I'd say this... you'd be surprised how much you can observe on the line when you pause, rewind, slow-mo, pause, rewind, slow-mo, over and over and over again on a single play. DVR is a godsend.

See, that's the putting words in people's mouths I was talking about that tends to raise hackles. Nobody here believes that Dabruinz thinks the coach relies on film from the CBS telecast to break down plays, and I'm sure you don't either. It's just clearly your attempt to try to make somebody else look dumb.

It is tough, but that doesn't mean it's not accurate or valuable. Honestly try it before you critisize. When they were looking for volunteers to help break down series, I gave it a shot because I wanted to help. I had NO idea how hard it was, I think my first attempt at disecting a play, took about 10 or 15 minutes of pause/rewind/slow-mo with an occasional zoom-in on my DVR JUST to get the blocking noted on a single play. I was kinda stunned (and further proof that BOR needs medication) and gave up quickly. But even pausing/rewinding with Box's notes in hand following along comparing his notes to the action in the game, I think you'll be surprised what you can see. Seriously, try it. (Not that I'm holding my breath thinking I'll be able to change your mind.)

Agreed, and there's a very educational Fruit Smoothie thread going on somewhere around here that could use some love and attention. (People actually think that s#!t is healthy!)

Well, you made some good points so I'll tell you what. I have the playoff game against Denver taped so I'll go back and see if I get anything out of watching the plays over. I believe that's fair. And by the way, Dabruinz said my opinion was worthless and I was a drunk (even though he has never met me) so while I'll take your advice, he attacked me first and even worse, he was 100 percent wrong. Him and that other guy actually think BB is watching replays of the game. I'm sorry but that's just plain old stupidity and I don't mind saying so. You said I tried to make Dabruinz look dumb but yet you overlooked the fact that he was totally wrong and attacked me first. Perhaps you can work on that because you, Dabruinz, Box nor any other poster owns this board and if someone personally attacks me for giving my opinion, I'm coming right back at them. Even if it's a moronic post like ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ....

 

[arrellbee]

Originally Posted by I'm Ron Borges?
... video tape the game themselves from up in the coaches box.

Originally Posted by arrellbee
You're kidding, right ?? ?? ??

No, I'm not. Feel free to e-mail the Pats and ask them if they have some intern taping the games from the coaches box or not. If they so no, I'll apologize to everyone on here. Even T-shirt said everyone knows this is done but apparently you are not one of those people. My God, they even do that in high school for christ sakes.

Well, I guess you weren't kidding. I'm sure they do that in high school games - I've taped a few myself. However, have you ever watched any Belichick play analysis ?? Where do you think the cameras were situated that he uses ?? Just curious.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

My thanks to T-shirt, Db, and Co. for trying to explain our gentle little family here. If Ronnie chooses to wait until coach's tape is available as part of Sunday Ticket, that is his choice.

 

[pats1]

My thanks to T-shirt, Db, and Co. for trying to explain our gentle little family here. If Ronnie chooses to wait until coach's tape is available as part of Sunday Ticket, that is his choice.

(First off - damnit! Another reason I should ditch Charter!)

But some points to make for "Lil' Ronnie:"

1) I've nearly nearly worn out my rewind, fast forward, pause, and slow motion buttons on my clunky old VCR. It's not just quickly watching the game. Thankfully this year I have some video capture equipment, so I'll be able to record these games to DVD.

2) CBS has a myriad broadcast views, and they are able to show relevant, coaches-style persepectives to most plays. In conjuction with the real-time footage, you CAN draw a good amount of conclusions from the tape data.

 

[DaBruinz]

Are you serious? Coaches film is nothing like the TV angle. Now, who is the one that's worthless on this subject matter? That is comical. You try to give me a dig and make yourself look like an idiot saying that coaches actually break down the TV feed and don't video tape the game themselves from up in the coaches box. Why do you think they do that? Because they're bored? Wow, great point buddy.

I didn't show myself to be an idiot. This goes to show you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. The cameras in the stadium all provide TV film footage. There are no other cameras rolling that provide film to the coaches. What I understand, also, chumly, is that the TV footage doesn't show EVERYTHING the coaches get, but that what the coaches get comes from the same cameras.

There are people on here who are clearly smarter than you. There are people who are smarter than I am. YOU are not one of them.

 

[spacecrime]

Well, you made some good points so I'll tell you what. I have the playoff game against Denver taped so I'll go back and see if I get anything out of watching the plays over. I believe that's fair. And by the way, Dabruinz said my opinion was worthless and I was a drunk (even though he has never met me) so while I'll take your advice, he attacked me first and even worse, he was 100 percent wrong. Him and that other guy actually think BB is watching replays of the game. I'm sorry but that's just plain old stupidity and I don't mind saying so. You said I tried to make Dabruinz look dumb but yet you overlooked the fact that he was totally wrong and attacked me first. Perhaps you can work on that because you, Dabruinz, Box nor any other poster owns this board and if someone personally attacks me for giving my opinion, I'm coming right back at them. Even if it's a moronic post like ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ....

Sorry, must have dozed off for a second. Truth is, all those guys are just jealous of you and your amazing insights into the Patriots. We've been discussing the Pats for years but deep down knew that we needed a newbie to sign up and show us the Way Things Are.

Don't worry about them or me. We aren't used to being in the presence of one so all-knowing. We're not sure how to act.

Thanks for setting us straight.

Now that we are enlightened, your job here is done. Time for you to move on, like the Lone Ranger, and enlighten some other fans.

 

[DaBruinz]

Well, you made some good points so I'll tell you what. I have the playoff game against Denver taped so I'll go back and see if I get anything out of watching the plays over. I believe that's fair. And by the way, Dabruinz said my opinion was worthless and I was a drunk (even though he has never met me) so while I'll take your advice, he attacked me first and even worse, he was 100 percent wrong. Him and that other guy actually think BB is watching replays of the game. I'm sorry but that's just plain old stupidity and I don't mind saying so. You said I tried to make Dabruinz look dumb but yet you overlooked the fact that he was totally wrong and attacked me first. Perhaps you can work on that because you, Dabruinz, Box nor any other poster owns this board and if someone personally attacks me for giving my opinion, I'm coming right back at them. Even if it's a moronic post like ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ....

1st off, I didn't call you a drunk. I said you were boozing it up and not paying attention to the game. If you consider that an attack, well, damn, Jr, you need to get thicker skin.

2ndly, I wasn't totally wrong and you have provided nothing to the contrary.

3rdly, your opinion, from where I stand, is worthless. Your claims that there was no way for Box or others to be able to discern blocking assignments from the tape reviews were the most baseless posted in this thread. If you had actually read any of them, which it doesn't seem like you have, you'd know what others were referring to.

Finally, you are sitting there WHINING now about the fact that you have the right to your opinion and totally forgetting that I am entitled to my opinion also. And even with Freedom of Speech (if it applied here, which, technically it doesn't as Ian can ban anyone he wants for anything he deems inappropriate) you are not protected from the repurcussions excercising that Freedom of Speech. The repurcussion of you dismissing the work that such Pats fans as Box of Rocks and Pats1 do in their tape reviews is that you draw the ire of those people who value the work that they do. Cause and Effect.

 

[tombonneau]

Maybe I'm a little late to this thread, but are there people on here arguing that NFL coaches use TV broadast tapes to break down film and don't actually tape the game themselves? You're kidding, right?

I know a guy who is a videographer for the Pats. They tape their own games. They might supplement this with raw network footage, that could be in the league TV contracts, but they are definitely taping games.

I don't know, its late, so maybe I'm not understanding the argument, but that seemed to be the gist of it, but really I don't know how anyone could think otherwise.

 

[DaBruinz]

T-Shirt,

My comment to Box was meant as a joke. If you or he took it the wrong way, I'm sorry but I still think his system has flaws in it. That's why coaches tape the offensive line play from the above so they can see everything that's going on. Other than Dabruins, who thinks they just watch the game on TV. My only point was I don't think us fans get a good enough look of the offensive line play just from watching the game on TV to say who is doing their job and who isn't. Sure, if a LT is getting beat for 3 sacks a game that's a telling sign but play-by-play, I think it's tough to disect the O-line from the view we see. I don't see any reason why we need to make this thread any longer. That's just my opinion of the situation.

Nice way to put words in my mouth Chumly. No where did I say that the coaches just watch the game on TV. Nice bold-faced LIE by you. And you wonder why you have drawn the ire that you have.

The FACT of the matter is that the cameras in the stadium are all controlled by the NFL. They are fixed positions and the coaches get the same feeds as the networks. The difference is that the teams get continuous feeds of over-head shots so they get the entire field and can see the plays from the broad perspective. That is the "GAME TAPE." Those cameras are the ones that the networks cut to on REPLAYS, many times, or when they are showing how a receiver beat a coverage. In the coaches booth, the teams also get the TV feeds because they don't necessarily get the same picture from the over-head shots. Its how teams are able to call down and tell the HC that he should review a play before the other team gets a chance to snap the ball as well.

 

[DaBruinz]

Maybe I'm a little late to this thread, but are there people on here arguing that NFL coaches use TV broadast tapes to break down film and don't actually tape the game themselves? You're kidding, right?

I know a guy who is a videographer for the Pats. They tape their own games. They might supplement this with raw network footage, that could be in the league TV contracts, but they are definitely taping games.

I don't know, its late, so maybe I'm not understanding the argument, but that seemed to be the gist of it, but really I don't know how anyone could think otherwise.

Tom - The argument made was that no one could review the "network" feeds and be able to discern blocking assignments from them.

The problem with that thesis is that ALL the feeds come from the NFL controlled cameras. There are certain cameras assigned to provide the teams with their "GAME FOOTAGE." They are the ones that the teams get their photos from that they send down to the field for the players to review. These cameras tape every play of the game. These cameras are also cut to quite often during the game. They are the ones that provide the wide-angle shots that come from over-head so that you can see where everyone is lined up. Mainly, they are shown in replays. However, you CAN discern quite a bit from them. Just like you can discern quite a bit from other replay shots that come on during the game.

The BORGES clone insinuated that I said that the teams use the same network feed to do game reviews as what Box used. The problem is that I never said anything of the sort. All I did was question his wording.

 

[patriotsrule]

I don't want to get in the middle of this fight and I'm not even really sure what the argument is about since the topic is about tight ends but I just read this on Patriots.com and thought it might be of value:

Does the Patriots coaching staff tape all of the games themselves and if not where do they get their video from? Thanks.
Mark Richter

Every single game the Patriots play is taped by the team’s video crew from the end zone angle and a side angle specifically for the coaching staff. The game is recorded from above so the coaches can see everything that’s going on and what is happening anyplace on the field on a particular play. This is the reason why you hear the phrase “coaches’ tape.†The way they tape the game gives coaches a very specific view of the action that most people aren’t able to see. They also tape every practice in a similar manner.
-Tom Casale