Payton’s fourth down call

[n1997y]

Really good writing by Seth Wickersham here. I especially like his introductory description of the Bears game as background for Payton’s planning:

Payton saw the Bears line up on offense, and he squinted. "Kick it," he said.

On the play, Caleb Williams was intercepted, costing Chicago three points -- the difference in the final score.

"Why are coaches not kicking field goals?" Payton said, turning back to game preparation.

Inside Sean Payton's fourth-down Patriots-Broncos call

h/t PP2

 

[brdmaverick]

The Broncos had all the momentum and were rolling. Anything more than just 'inches' where a sneak is 99% successful, I would have said kick it and take the two-score lead.

 

[StockingAnarchyNumber12]

You take the 10 point lead before the snow hits. Bad call

 

[yukon cornelius]

payton is great at scripting his early plays.....the more the game goes on, the more he is exposed

gimme mcD and vraebel.....in game adjustments matter, so does clock management and game management

they kick that field goal, pats are likely cleaning out lockers today

 

[NovaScotiaPatsFan]

I fully recognize that I'm very risk averse and that has hindered me in life, but I 100% kick it in that situation. Football isn't a game of points, it's a game of scores, and any time you can put yourself up by an extra score you should take it IMO.

I also said the same thing about McVay not kicking to go down 1 in the NFC Championship game. In that situation if you can reduce what you need from a TD to a FG you take it, unless you really don't trust your defense. They had over 5 minutes left, all 3 Time outs + the 2 Minute Warning.

 

[yukon cornelius]

I fully recognize that I'm very risk averse and that has hindered me in life, but I 100% kick it in that situation. Football isn't a game of points, it's a game of scores, and any time you can put yourself up by an extra score you should take it IMO.

4th and short, playing the rams in a dome.....sure, TDs matter....in this situation it was all about coming away with points, any points

 

[Pape]

you have a back up under center... and you pass on points? dumb ass move ... glad it worked out for him in the end... can start his vacation two weeks early

 

[Patsman]

payton is great at scripting his early plays.....the more the game goes on, the more he is exposed

gimme mcD and vraebel.....in game adjustments matter, so does clock management and game management

they kick that field goal, pats are likely cleaning out lockers today

I'm not sure it was McD/Vrabes best days either. End of first half, Vrabes was holding on to way to much time calling TO's there when it was highly unlikely they were going to get into FG range pinned back in their own ten. Should have just gone into the second half tied, lucky Denver missed that FG. The run play to forfeit a first down attempt and opt for the FG in the second half was pretty iffy.

 

[Kdo5]

He’s a good coach but it was a terrible decision. A two score lead forces the Patriots to play a little more aggressively and with an elite defense that can be the difference in creating a key turnover.

Once the Pats had the game tied their offense never really had to play with any urgency and could just take care of the ball.

 

[gobesmug]

I fully recognize that I'm very risk averse and that has hindered me in life, but I 100% kick it in that situation. Football isn't a game of points, it's a game of scores, and any time you can put yourself up by an extra score you should take it IMO.

I also said the same thing about McVay not kicking to go down 1 in the NFC Championship game. In that situation if you can reduce what you need from a TD to a FG you take it, unless you really don't trust your defense. They had over 5 minutes left, all 3 Time outs + the 2 Minute Warning.

McVay not kicking was beyond dumb. They would been 1 kick from a win or worse case scenario a TD with a 2pt conversion to tie.

In that scenario they could played super aggressive not worrying about giving up a big play for a TD.

 

[yukon cornelius]

I'm not sure it was McD/Vrabes best days either. End of first half, Vrabes was holding on to way to much time calling TO's there when it was highly unlikely they were going to get into FG range pinned back in their own ten. Should have just gone into the second half tied, lucky Denver missed that FG. The run play to forfeit a first down attempt and opt for the FG in the second half was pretty iffy.

looking at the weather, you gotta go for it there

 

[Diffs4]

I'm not sure it was McD/Vrabes best days either. End of first half, Vrabes was holding on to way to much time calling TO's there when it was highly unlikely they were going to get into FG range pinned back in their own ten. Should have just gone into the second half tied, lucky Denver missed that FG. The run play to forfeit a first down attempt and opt for the FG in the second half was pretty iffy.

I agree with you. The end of the first half calling those time outs to get the ball back when your offense was doing absolutely nothing was a head scratcher for me. They are very lucky that Denver missed that field goal, that 3 points would have been on Vrabel in my opinion. I think McDaniel's was content to run out the clock since they were backed up but Vrabel was very demonstrative to speed it up after the first play. Was saying this before they were stopped and punted the ball back to Denver and they got the ball back at midfield.

The other head scratcher for me was the tush push on fourth down. Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not recall them running that all year. Yes QB sneaks but not a tush push. And it was terribly executed as no one pushed Maye forward, they just went to block, Very fortunate that was called a first down. I think he did get it but that first linesmen running in had him short. Did not like the play call there at all. Hey they won the game that is all that matters, but the end of the half was poorly coached in my humble opinion and they were lucky not to be down 10-7.

 

[Sfpat]

Payton was believing his BS about Stiddy's abilities and wanted to prove to the world that he was right. His ego got in the way.

 

[everlong]

Before the plays were run I disagreed with Payton's decision but also Vrabel's and I'm still not convinced Maye picked up the first down on the push. These guys have to stop with the advanced analytics or the we're always going as a matter of principal ****. In a wide open game I think you should almost always go for it. In a game like yesterday where points are at a premium take the points or play field position.

 

[Bill Lee]

Payton was believing his BS about Stiddy's abilities and wanted to prove to the world that he was right. His ego got in the way.

Of course I don't know him, but he totally looks like the kind of guy who reads his own press clippings and believes them.

 

[n1997y]

The Broncos had all the momentum and were rolling. Anything more than just 'inches' where a sneak is 99% successful, I would have said kick it and take the two-score lead.

Ironically that seems to be what Payton said about the Bears game. And then he went against his own advice to them…

 

[Steve102]

Take the points.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Payton is a helluva coach but sometimes he gets too caught up with his plan and doesn't think big picture.

They call that mikemartzitis.

 

[PlainOldEd]

It has beccome an epidemic. I remember Tomlin against the Ravens I think, he went for it and missed and was asked later if he would do it again. He said "yes, we're trying to win the game".
Well, guess what? The team with the most points wins the game. So risking 3 automatic points is probably stupid.

 

[bormio]

I agree with you. The end of the first half calling those time outs to get the ball back when your offense was doing absolutely nothing was a head scratcher for me. They are very lucky that Denver missed that field goal, that 3 points would have been on Vrabel in my opinion. I think McDaniel's was content to run out the clock since they were backed up but Vrabel was very demonstrative to speed it up after the first play. Was saying this before they were stopped and punted the ball back to Denver and they got the ball back at midfield.

The other head scratcher for me was the tush push on fourth down. Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not recall them running that all year. Yes QB sneaks but not a tush push. And it was terribly executed as no one pushed Maye forward, they just went to block, Very fortunate that was called a first down. I think he did get it but that first linesmen running in had him short. Did not like the play call there at all. Hey they won the game that is all that matters, but the end of the half was poorly coached in my humble opinion and they were lucky not to be down 10-7.

I did not like calling the first TO when they had not yet gotten to 4th down. Bad crap can happen. I remember KC doing it at the end of the first half in the AFCCG. We converted a third and long with a huge play and we got 7 to make it 14-0.