Pats WR's ... What is a #1 WR?

[pazrul72]

I suppose I can sometimes but when you're trying to have a reasonable conversation with a last-word jockey it's hard not to.

So be the bigger person. I had a rule with Andy, he got 3 responses after that i found a different discussion. We went back and forth alot on cam versus Mac and i got tired of writing the same thing with the same stats again and again.

 

[Wozzy]

Would you two get a room so you can fight or f#$% already? Its literally the same back and forth non arguements in every thread. You know there is middle ground, Bill did just about everything possible to ruin Mac AND if Mac was who he was supposed to be that wouldnt have mattered. Its ok to be happy both are gone and there is a fresh start with a new beginning thats exciting to root for without trying to win a 4 year old arguement thats been beaten and beaten and beaten and beaten and beaten and beaten to death. Let it go.

Don’t blame me, I offered to put him on ignore if he’d do the same… he refused. I didn’t make this offer because I couldn’t handle his BS, I did it for the sake of the board. He’s the instigator, he chases me around… period.

Mac sucked, nobody ruined Mac. If Mac was Burrow or Herbert he couldn’t be ruined.

 

[Grogan14]

Someone who at times needs to be doubled and is a true vertical threat

 

[pazrul72]

Don’t blame me, I offered to put him on ignore if he’d do the same… he refused. I didn’t make this offer because I couldn’t handle his BS, I did it for the sake of the board. He’s the instigator, he chases me around… period.

Mac sucked, nobody ruined Mac. If Mac was Burrow or Herbert he couldn’t be ruined.

I blame both of you, it takes two to tango. Again see my post about debating with Andy. Also middle ground, if you cant see how 3 OCs in 3 years with no high quality draft choices or FA signings on offense can ruin a QB then i dont know what to tell you besides check with your optometrist. That last bit is basically what i said for your point in the arguement, if Mac was who he was supposed to be none of that would matter. Its BOTH, BB ran the ruin a rookie QB playbook to perfection AND Mac didnt have the temperment to be an NFL QB and sucked. New coach, new qb, new beginnings can we please just let it go?

 

[Fuzz]

IMO to be a #1 you have to be 6'2+ 220+ lbs run at least a 4.4 and have either a crazy vertical or top shelf Route running. There are usually 4 or 5 in the NFL in a given year and the crazy part is its not always the same guys. My criteria is every single game you need to do one of three things 1)get 5-8 catchs for 60-120 yards against the other teams #1 corner, i.e you win some you lose some but you hold your own and draw thier best coverage 2) get double covered and open up the field for everyone else to have big days or 3) get crappy coverage and go off for 10 catches 200 yards and a couple TDs.

Thats way too stringent. I don't believe there's a single receiver in the league right now who meets those requirements. The closest is probably Nico Collins 6'4 - 215 - 4.43. The prototypical #1 right now is 6'1 - 205 - 4.5, which I would expect are close to average numbers across all WR's. In fact, that's basically what all our receivers look like except for Pop Douglas and Thornton.

Ceedee Lamb 6'2 - 200 - 4.5
Amon Ra St Brown 6'0 - 202 - 4.5
Stefon Diggs 6'0 - 191 - 4.46
Davante Adams 6'1 - 215 - 4.56
Ja'Marr Chase 6'0 - 201 - 4.34
Justin Jefferson 6'1 - 195 - 4.43
Brandon Aiyuk 6'0 - 200 - 4.5
Tyreek Hill 5'10 - 190 - 4.29
AJ Brown 6'1 - 226 - 4.49
Keenan Allen 6'2 - 211 - 4.58
Deandre Hopkins 6'1 - 218 - 4.57
Puka Nacua 6'2 - 205 - 4.57

 

[Fuzz]

Thats way too stringent. I don't believe there's a single receiver in the league right now who meets those requirements. The closest is probably Nico Collins 6'4 - 215 - 4.43. The prototypical #1 right now is 6'1 - 205 - 4.5, which I would expect are close to average numbers across all WR's. In fact, that's basically what all our receivers look like except for Pop Douglas and Thornton.

Ceedee Lamb 6'2 - 200 - 4.5
Amon Ra St Brown 6'0 - 202 - 4.5
Stefon Diggs 6'0 - 191 - 4.46
Davante Adams 6'1 - 215 - 4.56
Ja'Marr Chase 6'0 - 201 - 4.34
Justin Jefferson 6'1 - 195 - 4.43
Brandon Aiyuk 6'0 - 200 - 4.5
Tyreek Hill 5'10 - 190 - 4.29
AJ Brown 6'1 - 226 - 4.49
Keenan Allen 6'2 - 211 - 4.58
Deandre Hopkins 6'1 - 218 - 4.57
Puka Nacua 6'2 - 205 - 4.57

Actually, turns out there is one:

DK Metcalf 6'4 - 235 - 4.33

Freak

 

[sb1]

Don’t blame me, I offered to put him on ignore if he’d do the same… he refused. I didn’t make this offer because I couldn’t handle his BS, I did it for the sake of the board. He’s the instigator, he chases me around… period.

Mac sucked, nobody ruined Mac. If Mac was Burrow or Herbert he couldn’t be ruined.

 

[pazrul72]

Thats way too stringent. I don't believe there's a single receiver in the league right now who meets those requirements. The closest is probably Nico Collins 6'4 - 215 - 4.43. The prototypical #1 right now is 6'1 - 205 - 4.5, which I would expect are close to average numbers across all WR's. In fact, that's basically what all our receivers look like except for Pop Douglas and Thornton.

Ceedee Lamb 6'2 - 200 - 4.5
Amon Ra St Brown 6'0 - 202 - 4.5
Stefon Diggs 6'0 - 191 - 4.46
Davante Adams 6'1 - 215 - 4.56
Ja'Marr Chase 6'0 - 201 - 4.34
Justin Jefferson 6'1 - 195 - 4.43
Brandon Aiyuk 6'0 - 200 - 4.5
Tyreek Hill 5'10 - 190 - 4.29
AJ Brown 6'1 - 226 - 4.49
Keenan Allen 6'2 - 211 - 4.58
Deandre Hopkins 6'1 - 218 - 4.57
Puka Nacua 6'2 - 205 - 4.57

Fair enough, there are guys on there i thought were bigger, like chase. So make those numbers 6 ft + 200+ and the rest still applies.

 

[Fuzz]

Fair enough, there are guys on there i thought were bigger, like chase. So make those numbers 6 ft + 200+ and the rest still applies.

Justin Jefferson, Stefon Diggs & Tyreek Hill still don't meet those measurables. I dont think anyone would argue that they aren't all #1s. Also, only 2 guys from the list I posted meet your 40 time requirement.

 

[sb1]

Mac didnt have the temperment to be an NFL QB

That would 100% be the GM’s fault for picking him and the coach’s fault for setting him up to fail despite some red flags in his scouting report:

• - Doesn't play with the desired poise of an NFL starter.
• - Play can be panicky and rushed in the face of pressure.
• - Would like to see him play with more grit.

Also his McEnroe label was never a term of endearment to me. Suggested he can’t handle adversity all that well, and he didn’t.

 

[rkarp1]

That would 100% be the GM’s fault for picking him and the coach’s fault for setting him up to fail despite some red flags in his scouting report:

• - Doesn't play with the desired poise of an NFL starter.
• - Play can be panicky and rushed in the face of pressure.
• - Would like to see him play with more grit.

Also his McEnroe label was never a term of endearment to me. Suggested he can’t handle adversity all that well, and he didn’t.

I continue to believe this conversation, and the teams GM/hc situation is completely different if Josh stayed on board, and Bill opted to retain Thuney rather than 5th year option Wynn and resign TBrown. the Strange pick could have been used for an offensive weapon. Bill would be going for the all time wins record. Thuney would be in the discussion for the Pats ring of honor

 

[Wozzy]

I blame both of you, it takes two to tango. Again see my post about debating with Andy.

Have no clue who Andy is. Odd how not a single poster has called out SB1 for his lack of control or respect for other board members. I offered a solution, he rejected it… it’s no longer my problem. Pressure him to change, not me.

Also middle ground, if you cant see how 3 OCs in 3 years with no high quality draft choices or FA signings on offense can ruin a QB then i dont know what to tell you besides check with your optometrist. That last bit is basically what i said for your point in the arguement, if Mac was who he was supposed to be none of that would matter. Its BOTH, BB ran the ruin a rookie QB playbook to perfection AND Mac didnt have the temperment to be an NFL QB and sucked. New coach, new qb, new beginnings can we please just let it go?

Tell your buddy. I don’t chase him around.

 

[Wozzy]

I continue to believe this conversation, and the teams GM/hc situation is completely different if Josh stayed on board, and Bill opted to retain Thuney rather than 5th year option Wynn and resign TBrown. the Strange pick could have been used for an offensive weapon. Bill would be going for the all time wins record. Thuney would be in the discussion for the Pats ring of honor

Mac still would have sucked… he sucked to end 2021 with Josh and a good offense around him. He was also a terrible leader of men and built a reputation as a dirty player which embarrassed his own teammates. Ridiculous…

 

[sb1]

Mac still would have sucked… he sucked to end 2021 with Josh and a good offense around him. He was also a terrible leader of men and built a reputation as a dirty player which embarrassed his own teammates. Ridiculous…

What's ridiculous is your obsession with a backup QB on the Jacksonville Jaguars. He broke you. Lmao

 

[Wozzy]

What's ridiculous is your obsession with a backup QB on the Jacksonville Jaguars. He broke you. Lmao

You think he's good... when can we expect him to start?

 

[sb1]

You think he's good... when can we expect him to start?

Yup you're broken. Lmao. It's ok dude the bad man is gone.

 

[Wozzy]

Yup you're broken. Lmao. It's ok dude the bad man is gone.

Fck off you attention starved child.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

I think ideally you just want a bunch of guys that can get open. That's really all you need. Wear down defenses. You can totally have an offense based on the principle of 'death by a thousand cuts'. If your receivers get open, even for just 6 or 8 yards at a time, but consistently, you will score. It can lead to defenses getting frustrated and taking gambles that expose them. It can lead to opposing offenses taking gambles because you're using so much clock. Honestly, if you can do it, it's one of my favorite offenses to watch.

 

[n1997y]

I think ideally you just want a bunch of guys that can get open. That's really all you need. Wear down defenses. You can totally have an offense based on the principle of 'death by a thousand cuts'. If your receivers get open, even for just 6 or 8 yards at a time, but consistently, you will score. It can lead to defenses getting frustrated and taking gambles that expose them. It can lead to opposing offenses taking gambles because you're using so much clock. Honestly, if you can do it, it's one of my favorite offenses to watch.

Agreed, as long as your QB doesn’t make colossal blunders. One pick six is almost insurmountable by such an offense. Even a poor completion percentage can make it too inconsistent to be successful. Problem is even little blunders can turn into colossal blunders. Lots of passes off the fingertips end up as INTs.

So you need a reliable QB. And that means a good OL. That’s why those two are really more important than that unicorn #1 WR. Good QB, solid OL, and several WRs that can get open are a winning combination. Pats proved that for years.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

And that reliable QB doesn't need to have a rocket arm, either. He just needs to get the ball to the open guys with zip. There's a difference between velocity/accuracy and just distance throwing. Take Steve Young.... distancewise, he couldn't bomb it. But he delivered the ball with zip and accuracy.