PATS TRADE JAMIE COLLINS!!!

[The Gr8est]

The more I think about the compensation, the more I'm shocked they couldn't find one wacko GM to cough up more. Is it that we overvalued him to that extent or that BB wanted to keep him from a contender ?

Possibly some of both.

Collins is worth what another team was willing to pay for him. It was Cleveland in the round 3-4 range.

Now if it was before the season it would likely have been higher, and it is possible a contender would have paid more, but Chandler Jones only brought a low #2 pre-season, and the season is half over.

What is it worth to BB to get value for Collins, as well as keep him away from certain teams, as well as get him out of the Pats' locker room and make a statement to his team? This is also figured into the equation.

I also think there may be an agreement that Cleveland can't turn around and trade him to a team like Denver or Pittsburgh, for more than the Pats got.

 

[mb6592]

Collins has played horribly this season but ... only a 3rd?

Kinda reminds me of the old Woody Allen joke: two elderly women are at a Catskill mountain resort, and one of 'em says, "Boy, the food at this place is really terrible." The other one says, "Yeah, I know; and such small portions."

 

[RobertWeathers]

Having grown up in Canton (after Milton), for a Patriots player, it's close to work and there are some very nice isolated ( read private) areas...
There were a few who lived near us in the 70s and 80s, the late Bill Lenkaitis (?sp) was two houses down.....

Sure. Canton is a fine town. That's not a debate. I grew up in a crap-ass town in NH and Canton blows it out of the water.

Just don't consider it a destination for the lifestyles of the rich and famous.

Of course many Pats make their home in the Attelboros

 

[Hammer of Thor]

can Cleveland now trade Collins to a contender? Be kind, I really don't know the answer.

They have until 4:00 pm tomorrow to do so, unless the Patriots and Browns included a no-trade kicker clause as part of the deal (like what the Packers did when trading Brett Favre to the Jets; the compensation to the Packers was significantly upped if the Jets traded him to the Vikings thereafter).

 

[BradyFTW!]

Also, this is one reason why I don't want Jimmy G to be traded for picks. We get a 1rst rounder for him and there's a good chance he's going to be traded in a couple years and you get nothing in return.

Keep Jimmy as an insurance qb and let him walk when the time comes.

But the reason why these guys are being traded is because Belichick drafted too many really good players, to the point that he couldn't afford to extend them all. If that's the 'problem' that you may have to confront 4 years from now, then it just makes me even more bullish about getting another first if we can.

 

[BradyFTW!]

can Cleveland now trade Collins to a contender? Be kind, I really don't know the answer.

The trade deadline is tomorrow, so I don't think there's technically anything prohibiting them, but at a minimum there's a practical consideration that would make it very, very hard to pull off.

 

[Sciz]

can Cleveland now trade Collins to a contender? Be kind, I really don't know the answer.

Yes. The Eagles originally wanted Kline included in the Rowe trade so they could re-trade him. It sounds like that fell apart when they realized nobody else wanted Kline.

 

[deroc5050]

im starting to feel better about it.

I really don't feel better about it, they have a chance, a really really good chance to go all the way this year. They can use all the great players they can get. They can use depth at line backer or any position who knows who goes down next game or practice.

I just don't like this move. Obviously there is something I don't know. If we lost the compensatory pick because we brought in more players than we lost .. then so what! We lose a 4th rounder that may or may not pan out. But we know for sure that Jamie could help us win another Super Bowl this year.

 

[Clonamery]

Sure. Canton is a fine town. That's not a debate. I grew up in a crap-ass town in NH and Canton blows it out of the water.

Just don't consider it a destination for the lifestyles of the rich and famous.

Of course many Pats make their home in the Attelboros

Is Crap-ass anywhere near Cilleyville?

 

[cmasspatsfan]

I really don't feel better about it, they have a chance, a really really good chance to go all the way this year. They can use all the great players they can get. They can use depth at line backer or any position who knows who goes down next game or practice.

I just don't like this move. Obviously there is something I don't know. If we lost the compensatory pick because we brought in more players than we lost .. then so what! We lose a 4th rounder that may or may not pan out. But we know for sure that Jamie could help us win another Super Bowl this year.

But if the talented player isn't doing his job what good is he. You're better off with a lesser player doing his job, it's a team game after all.

 

[rads2005]

The only thing I can think of is Collins wasn't happy with the contract the Pats offered and instead of playing his ass off and winning another Super Bowl.. he let it effect him and was probably talking alot of **** to other players. Add to that his inconsistency in play and his injuries.. this must have pissed off BB to the point of just saying **** it, we are moving on now.

Something doesn't add up.

Unfortunately this makes no sense either. It is in Jamie Collins' best interest to play his ass off this season because it's a contract year.

Actually, his lack of gaudy stats in a contract year may have made him unhappy, maybe he said something to Belichick about being unhappy with not blitzing enough or something.

It is definitely a mistake though. Even if you benched Collins and just brought him on for pass rushing downs/pass coverage, the team is better off this year if you just keep Collins and then let him go in free agency. And you still have a good chance of a compensatory draft pick.

Bottom line, it's the wrong decision that hurts the team's play, because it reduces linebacker options and the odds are there isn't much, if any benefit down the line in a little bit better draft pick (even assuming it's a 3rd round compensatory).

We know Collins isn't a locker room cancer given McCourty's reaction and shock.

My money is on he said something to Belichick or a coach and their hubris got in their way. There is no rule that can be 100%, and if Collins isn't a locker room cancer and he's gone via free agency anyway, just keep him and let Collins' (theoretical) comments go. If nothing else he's a 53rd guy who's one hell of an insurance policy in case Hightower goes down or something.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Possibly some of both.

Collins is worth what another team was willing to pay for him. It was Cleveland in the round 3-4 range.

Now if it was before the season it would likely have been higher, and it is possible a contender would have paid more, but Chandler Jones only brought a low #2 pre-season, and the season is half over.

What is it worth to BB to get value for Collins, as well as keep him away from certain teams, as well as get him out of the Pats' locker room and make a statement to his team? This is also figured into the equation.

I also think there may be an agreement that Cleveland can't turn around and trade him to a team like Denver or Pittsburgh, for more than the Pats got.

An extremely salient point Gr8, one that gets lost within the scrum of fans thinking/emoting of a player's past/present record of achievement.
I can tell you right now my house is worth a million dollars. I know it is! It is surrounded by forest, theater, a pool, great master setup, full guest suite, huge garage. It's a million dollar home with one exception, absolutely no one will offer me above a third round pick for it. ((however if anyone likes that description, likes the Tampa area, and has a million dollars -- please private message me )

 

[RobertWeathers]

Is Crap-ass anywhere near Cilleyville?

Yes. 1hr 15m SE.

 

[upstater1]

WEEI saying comp 3rd rounder if clev is awarded one, if not, Pats get their 4th rounder

But because of deflategate, that 4th rounder goes to the NFL while the Patriots keep their own, so it practically drops another 32 spots.

 

[upstater1]

Step away from the ledge. LOL
Why are we surprised by this?!!
Belichick never lets go of the vine unless he's got a certain grip on the next swing!!
If he hasn't already, Elandon Roberts will make you forget about Jamie Collins and we'll have him for another 3 years, guaranteed!!
This is team building and roster management in the Free Agency era and nobody, absolutely nobody, is better at it than Belichick.
Best of luck Jamie, you just went from a 7-1 team to an 0-8 team.
I would argue this move sends a pretty clear message to both players and agents.
That has value too!

He's not infallible. I don't question his roster building, but this is the middle of the season. He can let him walk and still keep him for the current run. But, I have always said that, if the Patriots had kept Deion Branch in 2006, they beat Indy in the AFCCG and win another Super Bowl. Remember Reche Caldwell's bugeyes and his drops?.

 

[rads2005]

OK, after a thousand responses I'm doubtless on well-trodden ground here, but this is how the tea leaves seem to me to be arranging themselves:

- Once the games started, he developed a bad case of "next-contract brain." It was always in the back of his mind, and it affected his focus as a team player. Common symptoms of the syndrom: freelancing to make splashier plays, playing less aggressively to protect against injury, feeling unwanted and generally not buying into the team ethic in a way that sets a bad example to new young players.

-The future projected to be more snaps for Roberts and fewer for Collins...which would only exacerbate the problems with Collins, who wanted to showcase himself for potential suitors.

- BB & co. started to contemplate what so recently seemed unthinkable, that it might be better to cut ties now. The trick is, the usual buyers for trade-deadline rent-a-stars are top playoff contenders. Nobody relishes the idea of Jamie Collins with a fresh new grudge against all things Patriots suiting up for the Steelers in the playoffs. So they take what they can get from lowly Cleveland.

Sound about right?

Very very good analysis and the only thing that makes sense, especially that last part.

I would add that even given this I don't think it's the right move. Keeping Collins means having a pass rushing weapon in the bag for obvious pass rushing downs and also the team's best coverage linebacker.

Letting him go doesn't do much if anything for improving draft position, since the Pats have a good chance of getting a compensatory pick for him (good chance they qualify this year since so many free agents).

I really doubt the locker room cancer thing - which is the only thing that would swing the trade in Belichick's favor. McCourty is too genuinely shocked for me to believe this.

Collins freelancing can be reigned in by just sticking him on passing downs.

 

[upstater1]

Yes, it's true.
No, the pick the Pats will lose is their own 4th rounder
I have no idea

I thought there is a provision that says if they trade into the round, they lose the higher pick of the two? We discussed this last spring.

 

[deroc5050]

But because of deflategate, that 4th rounder goes to the NFL while the Patriots keep their own, so it practically drops another 32 spots.

No its a 3rd compensatory this year. Or a 2018 4th rounder next year.

 

[hodgey]

When my son called me this morning with the news I was totally pissed. Then I had the day to reflect, listen to analysis & opinions then finally what I remembered from the last eight games. The only play that I can recall was the interception in I think the Texans game. I'm beginning to think that his reputation is far out weighing his production on the field at least this season. I know the points allowed per game on D has been great, but I have been for the most part disappointed with the defense. Hopefully this is a step in the right direction!!

 

[deroc5050]

But if the talented player isn't doing his job what good is he. You're better off with a lesser player doing his job, it's a team game after all.

He played lights out against the Texans. I thought he got a minor injury, so he hasn't played as many snaps lately. He might have flipped out with his reduced role against the Bills... he is in a contract year. Something happend but he is still a really good player.. he didn't just fall off a cliff in 3 or 4 weeks.