Pats release Leigh Bodden

[SyN65]

The thing about these roster moves that I don't get is we seem to replace the players we release with players that are worse...lol.

Like take Meriweather for example, we release him but then we replace him with Sergio Brown/Josh Barret...I mean I hated Meriweather as much as the next guy but are those two really better?

And now Bodden...I'm assuming Molden/Malcolm whoever it is is going to take his spot...are these guys really better?

It's almost like BB gets frustrated with these guys, cuts them, and then inserts a player that is either comparable/worse than the one he released in his spot hoping something will stick...I don't get it.

 

[Rob0729]

Belichick's misses have, interestingly, come with players that a lot of posters didn't want because they had other preferences. For all the "Hindsight!" stuff, the reality is that a lot of the Patriots misses have been pretty widely panned and/or questioned by the laypeople even at the time they happened.

That's not to say that the layperson has been right on everything or the BB's off-the-track picks never pan out, but BB seems to miss a lot more often when he tries to out-think the room and/or looks to be over-reliant on raw numbers.

And many of Belichick's hits were with players people didn't want because they had other preferences. More people didn't want Logan Mankins when he was drafted than they didn't want Darius Butler (who many on this board wanted the Pats to take in the first round and was considered a great value pick in the second round). Most people on this board loved the Laurence Maroney pick when it happened. Most people loved when the Pats got a first round talent in Chad Jackson in the second round.

If fans on this board had their way, Mankins, Patrick Chung, Ty Warren, McCourty (assuming he rebounds which he is starting to), Solder (who is solid for the most part so far), and others would not have been drafted because there were other players not available. For every reach that fails for Belichick, there has been reaches that have succeeded.

Belichick has had a lot misses just like most GMs over the years. But people are rewriting history on his drafts.

 

[Sciz]

Belichick's misses have, interestingly, come with players that a lot of posters didn't want because they had other preferences. For all the "Hindsight!" stuff, the reality is that a lot of the Patriots misses have been pretty widely panned and/or questioned by the laypeople even at the time they happened.

That's not to say that the layperson has been right on everything or the BB's off-the-track picks never pan out, but BB seems to miss a lot more often when he tries to out-think the room and/or looks to be over-reliant on raw numbers.

In all fairness, the laypeople question everything that doesn't involve a tall WR or a pass rusher.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I wouldn't say it's the professor that's failing. If it were the professor, then the students would be fine once they went to a different class. That hasn't really been the case, though. If anything, blame the admissions department.

Agreed in part, because Wilhite and Butler have gotten starting roles elsewhere, and with us we just needed them as #4/#5 CB's which they 'weren't good enough for'. And we don't know what Bodden will do. Regardless, BB is the admission's department here anyway.

 

[IcyPatriot]

The thing about these roster moves that I don't get is we seem to replace the players we release with players that are worse...lol.

Like take Meriweather for example, we release him but then we replace him with Sergio Brown/Josh Barret...I mean I hated Meriweather as much as the next guy but are those two really better?

And now Bodden...I'm assuming Molden/Malcolm whoever it is is going to take his spot...are these guys really better?

It's almost like BB gets frustrated with these guys, cuts them, and then inserts a player that is either comparable/worse than the one he released in his spot hoping something will stick...I don't get it.

But there is a huge difference between a talented player and one who can be effective in a system isn't there? It's great when they come in one package but .......

 

[Rob0729]

In all fairness, the laypeople question everything that doesn't involve a tall WR or a pass rusher.

I remember a lot of people slamming Belichick for not trading up to get Vernon Gholston and trading down to get Mayo. People slammed Belichick for drafting McCourty rather than taking a stud like Jerry Hughes or Jared Odrick.

People seem to forget the board consensus picks that turn out to be complete busts when Belichick actually drafts a far superior player.

 

[Deus Irae]

In all fairness, the laypeople question everything that doesn't involve a tall WR or a pass rusher.

Nonsense. People are fine with a lot of picks. People weren't fine with picks like


Butler
Jackson
Wheatley
Wilhite
Crable
Tate
O'Connell


etc...

However, there was all kinds of love about Mayo, Chung, Gronk (except for injury worries), Spikes, Barwin (Just in case Patsnutme is reading ), etc...

 

[upstater1]

I fixed the three year thing.

I didn't say that you cannot question Belichick, but we saw what Butler could do in this defense. Sure the Pats could have kept Butler for another year so people could biatch what a horrible draft pick he was and cut him next year and let him rebound his career then. It was clear for whatever reason, he was not a fit here. To Belichick's credit, he let him go rather than do what most coaches do and hold onto high draft picks because they won't admit they made a mistake on a guy.

You most certainly can complain about things with Belichick, but cutting Butler was not a bad move on his part. He just wasn't a fit here. We all saw that. Just because he is much better in Carolina doesn't change that. It just means he either needed a change of scenery or he is just a better system fit for them.

BTW, I would rather have Sanders over Barrett. I don't know just yet if I would want Sanders over Ihedibgo though. As for Butler over Molden, it would have been Butler over Bodden when he was cut.

I didn't think Butler was that bad. What I saw out of Butler was a horrible start to the 2010 season when he was toasted repeatedly in a few games. Then he saw the bench for the next few games, and he ended up playing quite a bit (and about as well as he's playing in Carolina) for the last 8 games off the year, when he wasn't burnt.

So he came into this preseason and in game 1 he looked like the Butler of the start of 2010. Had a bad game. but for the next few preseason games, he looked pretty good.

2 years is perhaps enough to tell he won't be a good fit. My argument though is that we brought in a guy who was burned much worse than Butler.

I think, as Rapaport says, Bodden's release was attitude-, and not talent-related. If Molden turns out to be better than Bodden (this year's Bodden) I will eat my shoe.

Seems to me that Belichick gets rid of guys that might provide depth in favor of fodder (Barrett, Brown, Molden, Adams). So instead of Butler, Sanders, Bodden, we get fodder. I'm OK with that if it's an attitude issue, but Sanders and Butler hardly seemed like headcases.

 

[Rob0729]

Nonsense. People are fine with a lot of picks. People weren't fine with picks like


Butler
Jackson
Wheatley
Wilhite
Crable
Tate
O'Connell


etc...

However, there was all kinds of love about Mayo, Chung, Gronk (except for injury worries), Spikes, Barwin (Just in case Patsnutme is reading ), etc...

Huh?!? People loved the Butler pick and hated Chung. Many people and so called experts had the Pats taking Butler in the first round. People felt that Chung was a reach in the second. As for Jackson, most people loved that pick because he was a projected first rounder. The Patriots fans spin in that draft is the Pats got two first round picks with Maroney and Jackson.

Let's not going recreating history.

 

[JackBauer]

Nonsense. People are fine with a lot of picks. People weren't fine with picks like


Butler
Jackson
Wheatley
Wilhite
Crable
Tate
O'Connell


etc...

However, there was all kinds of love about Mayo, Chung, Gronk (except for injury worries), Spikes, Barwin (Just in case Patsnutme is reading ), etc...

Unless my memory is failing me, I thought people were (generally) high on Butler coming out.

 

[Sciz]

However, there was all kinds of love about Mayo, Chung, Gronk (except for injury worries), Spikes, Barwin (Just in case Patsnutme is reading ), etc...

I don't know about that. Tons of people thought Mayo was a reach, everybody had a different player they wanted instead of Chung (I wanted Barwin gosh darnit!), and Spikes was deemed too slow by a ton of people (and still is).

For purposes of my argument, Gronk now counts as a "tall receiver."

 

[Rob0729]

Unless my memory is failing me, I thought people were (generally) high on Butler coming out.

They were. In fact, many of them slammed the Pats for taking Chung over Butler until they drafted Butler. The only real problem Pats fans had early in that draft other than reaching for Chung was that they traded out of the first round.

 

[NEPatriot]

Huh?!? People loved the Butler pick and hated Chung. Many people and so called experts had the Pats taking Butler in the first round. People felt that Chung was a reach in the second. As for Jackson, most people loved that pick because he was a projected first rounder. The Patriots fans spin in that draft is the Pats got two first round picks with Maroney and Jackson.

Let's not going recreating history.

Rob, while I agree with your general premise, there were/are differing views of players/prospects on this board. I wouldn't lump most/all posters into one camp.

 

[plk]

Nonsense. People are fine with a lot of picks. People weren't fine with picks like


Butler
Jackson
Wheatley
Wilhite
Crable
Tate
O'Connell


etc...

etc. would include

Mankins (a guard in the first round)
McCourty (just a special teamer)
Solder (a developmental project)

 

[Deus Irae]

Unless my memory is failing me, I thought people were (generally) high on Butler coming out.

Well, I'm going from memory since I wasn't going to go perusing through all the draft threads, but here's my recollection of a few, including Butler:

Mayo: loved (I didn't mind him as a player, but I preferred getting the LT in Clady)

Chung: loved (some were pissed because they'd wanted Delmas who was already pissed, and people were worried about his coverage skills, but they loved him for his effort and leadership)

Gronk: People loved his game, and were worried about his injury

Butler: I was one who didn't want him, just for example. I wanted Smith from Utah. Others just hated Butler's height and/or had other reasons.

 

[zoostation]

Maybe they'll talk football on a "Patriots" friday now instead of that baseball game...

I doubt it....I think they'll have a week long conversation about playing Adrien Gonzalez in right field and putting Ortiz on first base against the Phillies in the world series. Just like they did this past July before the :bricks:

 

[Rob0729]

Rob, while I agree with your general premise, there were/are differing views of players/prospects on this board. I wouldn't lump most/all posters into one camp.

Well, you are not going to get a complete consensus on any player on the board. I am just basically going with the general sentiment. Most people loved the Chad Jackson and Darius Butler picks and were luke warm on Patrick Chung pick. There were people who hated either or both the Jackson and Butler picks and/or loved the Chung pick, but they were in the minority.

For that matter, a large portion of the board didn't like the Mayo pick although I don't think it was the consensus.

 

[Deus Irae]

etc. would include

Mankins (a guard in the first round)
McCourty (just a special teamer)
Solder (a developmental project)

People loved Mankins. They just thought he went too high. When it was learned that he was going to get taken with, as I recall, the next pick, the "too high" thing pretty much died.

McCourty's issue was much more a matter of people being tired of the Patriots taking CBs and missing while other positions were needed. In fact, I was one of the people railing against McCourty after day 1 (New draft setup leading to the "in a vacuum" posts), and I changed to being alright with the pick after the rest of the draft brought players for other positions. Much of the McCourty angst was a product of the new draft format, and that's been twisted by people such as yourself.

The issues with Solder were of readiness (and let's not kid ourselves, because he wasn't ready and has shown that in his time) and greater need elsewhere. People were right on this. He looks like he's going to work out, but the team clearly needed the pass rusher.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Butler: I was one who didn't want him, just for example. I wanted Smith from Utah. Others just hated Butler's height and/or had other reasons.

Butler fit the Patriots DB mold to a tee, except between the ears.

He was smaller, fast and had great change of direction. (3 cone drill) However could not adjust from man to the soft BB zone defense predicated on read and react.

 

[upstater1]

Huh?!? People loved the Butler pick and hated Chung. Many people and so called experts had the Pats taking Butler in the first round. People felt that Chung was a reach in the second. As for Jackson, most people loved that pick because he was a projected first rounder. The Patriots fans spin in that draft is the Pats got two first round picks with Maroney and Jackson.

Let's not going recreating history.

I remember a few thought Butler was worthy as a first rounder, especially coming off the combine, but people were generally psyched about Chung. I remember because everyone knew the Patriots needed a safety, and right after the Patriots grabbed him (some thought he went a bit too early) there was a run on other safeties.