Pats get CB Aqib Talib from the Bucs !!

[SuperPatsFan1]

Well sure, but we also lose a 4th rounder in the process. That also happens to be next year when we already lacked a 5th and a 6th, so now there are no picks in rounds 4, 5, and 6. That makes it quite a large gamble of sorts.

One thing I do like about this move is that they are at least attempting to go "all in" this year, which I at least have to give them credit for.

Another thought is that they are attempting to solve an obvious area of weakness in a different manner, rather than continue to waste draft picks on college CB's. They at least attempted to grab someone who has proven NFL experience.

There are certainly some good qualities to this trade, but there is a big gamble too.

I hear ya. my comment was relative to the massive CB screw-ups we've had since we drafted Sameul in 2003. Noone have come close to panning out and none have had anything close to success when they departed either leading me to conclude that BB and his scouts pretty much suck when it comes to figuring out who can play corner and who can't.

Also, I've never been too fond of our scheme's either but that's another thread I'm sure.

 

[Deus Irae]

I hear ya. my comment was relative to the massive CB screw-ups we've had since we drafted Sameul in 2003. Noone have come close to panning out and none have had anything close to success when they departed either leading me to conclude that BB and his scouts pretty much suck when it comes to figuring out who can play corner and who can't.

Also, I've never been too fond of our scheme's either but that's another thread I'm sure.

Hobbs panned out fine.

 

[ATippett56]

If you think that Edelman has failed at WR due to a lack of production, why do you have a PS body who hasn't taken a single snap penciled in at WR4?

Edelman will be an unrestricted free agent. As for Greg Salas, it's time for the New England Patriots to develop a wide receiver.

Offensive snaps: Ridley closes deal - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Furthermore, Deion Branch played more offensive snaps than Julian Edelman against the St Louis Rams. Seems like Edelman is slipping further down the wide receiver depth chart.

 

[DocHoliday]

Edelman will be an unrestricted free agent. As for Greg Salas, it's time for the New England Patriots to develop a wide receiver.

Offensive snaps: Ridley closes deal - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Furthermore, Deion Branch played more offensive snaps than Julian Edelman against the St Louis Rams. Seems like Edelman is slipping further down the wide receiver depth chart.

The Patriots number one impediment to developing a receiver is Tom Brady.

He's a perfectionist that for better or for worse will not tolerate mistakes from WR.

Contrast with Peyton Manning, who by all accounts has spent an enormous amount of time with D. Thomas to develop the guy as well as their rapport. Yes, I understand that Manning has no choice.

The result is a team that needs young receivers for the future but isn't willing to take out any players to give them snaps to learn. Did you see the howls of rage we have when anybody is responsible for Welker not being on the field every snap?

Everyone expects receivers around here to put up 1000 yard seasons after coming up from the PS....

Cruz type players don't grow on trees...

 

[Deus Irae]

The Patriots number one impediment to developing a receiver is Tom Brady.

He's a perfectionist that for better or for worse will not tolerate mistakes from WR.

Contrast with Peyton Manning, who by all accounts has spent an enormous amount of time with D. Thomas to develop the guy as well as their rapport. Yes, I understand that Manning has no choice.

The result is a team that needs young receivers for the future but isn't willing to take out any players to give them snaps to learn.

Everyone expects receivers around here to put up 1000 yard seasons after coming up from the PS....

Cruz type players don't grow on trees...

Name the receiver who's failed in NE and gone on to be a quality receiver elsewhere afterwards.

 

[JackBauer]

Edelman will be an unrestricted free agent. As for Greg Salas, it's time for the New England Patriots to develop a wide receiver.

Offensive snaps: Ridley closes deal - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Furthermore, Deion Branch played more offensive snaps than Julian Edelman against the St Louis Rams. Seems like Edelman is slipping further down the wide receiver depth chart.

You do realize that Edelman is just coming back from injury, right? Well, maybe not since you compared Woodhead's receptions to Edelman's despite the fact that Woodhead has been healthy and Edelman has not.

I have no idea whether Edelman will be resigned or not. He does have utility beyond WR, which is a point in his favor. However, saying Edelman doesn't work at wideout while slotting a guy who hasn't taken a snap in his place is...well...

 

[ATippett56]

The Patriots number one impediment to developing a receiver is Tom Brady.

He's a perfectionist that for better or for worse will not tolerate mistakes from WR.

The result is a team that needs young receivers for the future but isn't willing to take out any players to give them snaps to learn. Did you see the howls of rage we have when anybody is responsible for Welker not being on the field every snap?

Everyone expects receivers around here to put up 1000 yard seasons after coming up from the PS....

The New England Patriots traded a future draft pick for Greg Salas. The New England Patriots increased Greg Salas pay to remain on the practice squad. Based upon the two aforementioned transactions, does not seem reasonable the New England Patriots wish to develop wide receiver Greg Salas for the future?

 

[DocHoliday]

The New England Patriots traded a future draft pick for Greg Salas. The New England Patriots increased Greg Salas pay to remain on the practice squad. Based upon the two aforementioned transactions, does not seem reasonable the New England Patriots wish to develop wide receiver Greg Salas for the future?

PS pay has no indication on future, as Markell Carter demonstrated.

Desire may be there, but the Patriots history suggests WR development to be impeded for whatever reason

 

[ATippett56]

You do realize that Edelman is just coming back from injury, right? Well, maybe not since you compared Woodhead's receptions to Edelman's despite the fact that Woodhead has been healthy and Edelman has not.

Julian Edelman played in the New York Jets game.

Julian Edelman Career Game Log - Pro-Football-Reference.com

I have no idea whether Edelman will be resigned or not. He does have utility beyond WR, which is a point in his favor. However, saying Edelman doesn't work at wideout while slotting a guy who hasn't taken a snap in his place is...well...

How many years are the New England Patriots willing to invest to develop a wide receiver? The New England Patriots cut Chad Jackson, Brandon Tate, Taylor Price after two seasons.

 

[JJDChE]

Kills your argument

The production of Greg Robinson Randall, Dan Klecko, Kenyatta Jones and Jonathan Wilhite kill my argument? I wouldn't want any of those guys with a 2013 4th round pick, so I don't see how it kills it. 5 of 16 guys we've drafted in the first round have been valuable to this team. I don't consider any of those guys listed above as valuable. I'm borderline on Randall, so call it 6 of 16 if you want. Still about a 2/3rds 'useless' rate.

 

[jays52]

Name the receiver who's failed in NE and gone on to be a quality receiver elsewhere afterwards.

Chad. Jackson. BOOM!

 

[Deus Irae]

The production of Greg Robinson Randall, Dan Klecko, Kenyatta Jones and Jonathan Wilhite kill my argument?

Obviously...

 

[ATippett56]

New England Patriots cornerback housekeeping:

CB1: Devin McCourty
CB2: Aqib Talib
CB3: Alfonzo Dennard
CB4: Marquice Cole
CB5: Derrick Martin

Sterling Moore was demoted to the practice squad.

Why is Kyle Arrington still on the 53 man roster?

 

[JJDChE]

Obviously...

:sleeping:

 

[Deus Irae]

:sleeping:

You made a percentage claim about the 4th round picks that was clearly wrong. Posting a smiley isn't going to change that.

Your "95%" claim is also historically wrong, if you're demanding a high rate of "production" from it as you seem to be with the 4th round pick list.

Either way, your argument fails.

 

[PatsFan2]

If Aquib Talib is half the player we think he is...he automatically puts our Defense over the Top. Our Defense is a Good CB away.

 

[JJDChE]

You made a percentage claim about the 4th round picks that was clearly wrong. Posting a smiley isn't going to change that.

Your "95%" claim is also historically wrong, if you're demanding a high rate of "production" from it as you seem to be with the 4th round pick list.

Either way, your argument fails.

6 players of value in 16 4th round picks. I'm willing to go out on a limb that Talib will provide more value in 8 games than Klecko, Wilhite and Jones did in their careers. Klecko, Wilhite and Jones provided this team with next to nothing. It shouldn't be hard.

The 95% is a pure guess. He has a pretty good shot of making an impact. There really isn't much precedent to go by on this team when it comes to bringing guys in midseason. Unlike our typical 'value' signings, there isn't much question of whether this guy can play or is past his prime. This isn't Ocho or Haynesworth.

 

[Deus Irae]

6 players of value in 16 4th round picks. I'm willing to go out on a limb that Talib will provide more value in 8 games than Klecko, Wilhite and Jones did in their careers. Klecko, Wilhite and Jones provided this team with next to nothing. It shouldn't be hard.

Go out on any limb you want. It was a 50% hit rate in terms of players who started for the team. Your claim:

...As you can see 11 out of 16 players on that list never contributed anything of value for this team even for 1 game...

was simply wrong.

The 95% is a pure guess.

And an obviously incorrect one.

Yes, Talib has the potential to be an excellent pickup for the Patriots. It's not a 95% likelihood if you're using a high threshhold for "productive", though, as Patriots trade/FA history demonstrates.

Yes, the 4th round picks are generally less successful than first round players. 50% of BB's 4th round picks have started in games for the Patriots, though, so it's not just a throwaway pick that was traded.

There's no need to go making false percentage claims. Your overall point is a defensible one, even if people disagree with it, without trying to rig the argument.

 

[JJDChE]

Go out on any limb you want. It was a 50% hit rate in terms of players who started for the team. Your claim:



was simply wrong.

I didn't use starting as a qualifier. Some guys played and were liabilities. Most notably Jones and Wilhite.

The numbers aren't terribly relevant in any case. If you want to go back an find how many quality starters come out of the 4th round, you're welcome to do the research. It's well below 50%, I think most can agree on that without looking through draft classes. There's a much greater than 50% chance that a 26-yo proven commodity is going be a quality starter than anyone we draft in the 4th round.

 

[PATSNUTme]

I was reading over the PFW 2008 Draft Guide on Talib. He was ranked 25 overall and the 4th CB in the class.

The write up said that he was a talented zone cover CB, who is not a very willing tackler. Now a lot has changed since then and just looking at his stat's for the 4 years at TB indicates that he is a solid but not great CB.

However he does have good ball skills and a solid CB is needed by the Patriots. If his personal baggage is now in order he's worth 4th, getting a 7th, for this year which is his contract year.

If he wants to "get paid" next year he has to prove that he is a good players and a no problem addition to the team.