Patriots | Willing to listen to offers for backup QBs

[Snake Eyes]

Mallett was a 3rd rounder last year what has he done to increase his value to 1st rounder? Hoyer I could see going for a 2nd at most but Mallett...

It's what Mallett hasn't done that should increase his value. It was pretty unanimous among scouts that he was the most talented QB in the draft, he fell because of character concerns. He hasn't been arrested on cocaine charges or had any Vince Young/Pacman Jones strupclub arrests, it's looking like the character concerns were overstated.

 

[Froob]

It's what Mallett hasn't done that should increase his value. It was pretty unanimous among scouts that he was the most talented QB in the draft, he fell because of character concerns. He hasn't been arrested on cocaine charges or had any Vince Young/Pacman Jones strupclub arrests, it's looking like the character concerns were overstated.

I doubt it, one year of not getting busted doesn't bump his value that much. Next year perhaps but at very least he's gotta have one more preseason I'd be shocked if someone changed their mind from last year enough to give up a 1st or 2nd.

 

[Snake Eyes]

I doubt it, one year of not getting busted doesn't bump his value that much. Next year perhaps but at very least he's gotta have one more preseason I'd be shocked if someone changed their mind from last year enough to give up a 1st or 2nd.

I think it really comes down to the job security of the people in the front office. If they're going to get fired if they continue to lose then maybe it makes sense to roll the dice on Mallett if his talent would be an upgrade. OTOH, one can lessen their job security by doing something too out of the box, even if it's successful.

I don't know how any GM in his right mind would think Ryan Tannehill would help deliver a more successful season than Ryan Mallett, but the concensus is that Tannehill is 1st round pick, which makes that move safe.

 

[Hardly Dykes]

I doubt it, one year of not getting busted doesn't bump his value that much. Next year perhaps but at very least he's gotta have one more preseason I'd be shocked if someone changed their mind from last year enough to give up a 1st or 2nd.

The Browns are really the only possibility I see as they have the need and the picks that could appeal to the Pats. BB is not going to trade Mallett to the Phins unless he's entirely underwhelmed with his progress. If you look at the Browns, if they take Richardson at 4, the best WR at 22 and then ship 37 to the Pats for Mallett, they've had a heckuva draft on paper in an attempt to upgrade the worst offense in the NFL. Mallett, you would think, is better than any QB the Browns could get at 37 and I think that's a high enough pick that the Pats just might bite. Works for both teams.

 

[Aßßynormal]

Seattle has already alluded to definitely taking Tannehill at the 12 spot if he is still on the board. The source is Peter King - SI, as I said, he's definitive about it ....... FWIW.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Again, Hoyer couldn't get himself a gig for a second round pick. As for the "physical tools", there may be a more meaningless term in football, but I'm not sure any of us have ever heard it. Mallett, supposedly blessed with all this first round talent and all these physical tools, fell to the 3rd round in a year where teams were QB crazy in round one. Does that mean he'll never make it? No, but it's not a good sign, either.

To be fair, you also have folks like this running draft boards:

When you talk to teams with big interest in Andy Dalton . . . you hear about his aptitude and experience. Dalton had 49 starts at TCU and may be able to adapt to a new offense quickly—important in a year when teams will have to get new players ready on the fly if the work stoppage stretches through the summer.

At least one team is thinking not just about Dalton's brains but also about what's on top of them. "Has there ever been a red-headed quarterback in the NFL who's really done well?" a coach asked one reporter last week. "It sounds idiotic, but is there any way that could be a factor? We've wondered."

Despite an explosion in information - 04.25.11 - SI Vault

And there was no logical reason for Marques Colston to have fallen to the seventh round, either. So it's not like players always drop for logical reasons.

 

[Mystery Pats Fan]

I dont think BB will let Mallet go, Hoyer on the other hand is set to go IMO. i hope mallet would stay i think he can be a good QB, all he need is just to learn more from the greatest.

That is a great picture of the rings in your signature. Where did you find it?

 

[Mystery Pats Fan]

It's what Mallett hasn't done that should increase his value. It was pretty unanimous among scouts that he was the most talented QB in the draft, he fell because of character concerns. He hasn't been arrested on cocaine charges or had any Vince Young/Pacman Jones strupclub arrests, it's looking like the character concerns were overstated.

I was absolutely elated when they announced his name as a Patriot pick. I literally jumped out of my chair. I had read up on him and watched a lot of video and absorbed every thing written about him prior to the draft and even with his, alleged, off field problems, I could not believe he fell as far as he did.

On most occasions, problems that kids had in college disappear when they reach the NFL. $$$$$ have a way of changing people, not to mention all the little extras along the way.

If BB trades Mallett, as I said in an earlier post, Curse of the Bambino, move over. Here comes the curse of The Mallett.

 

[DW Toys]

To be fair, you also have folks like this running draft boards:



Despite an explosion in information - 04.25.11 - SI Vault

And there was no logical reason for Marques Colston to have fallen to the seventh round, either. So it's not like players always drop for logical reasons.

I don't get the lust for Hoyer on this forum to keep him and push Mallett out. Hoyer is capable of being a starting QB now according to BB which is a good thing for him. I can see rating Hoyer at least 3rd over the other QBs in this Draft. You might say he has not a NFL resume, but neither do the Draftees. He is way ahead of the Draftees.

Why is not Mallett the four year plan to replace Brady? He has the tools, the smarts, the arm.
He's losing snaps to Hoyer.

Hoyer is a manager which is great and those types have won SuperBowls. Mallett was a first round talent. Hoyer turned out to be a wise pick up as an UDFA.....BUT.........I want someone who can sling it.

We are spoiled TBs don't come around often, but I can go through rosters and see where Mallett can be better next year than half the NFL starters listed.

I am not buying the RFA no sale of Hoyer. There were exactly.....none in the league! Draft day might be a different tune when the Weedens(????) and Cousins are gone off the Board. Cleveland should consider Hoyer.

Look at it this way. If we get a second for Mallett we gained one position. If we get a second for Hoyer, we scored.

We get "Googotz" if we let Hoyer go in 2013. What is everyone thinking here. I don't get it?

I feel the Pats got their QB for the future last year.

DW Toys

 

[IllegalContact]

It's only irrelevant if you don't believe that college QB's are often little more than products of the system...if not beneficiaries of pre-existing circumstances. Moreso than guys who manage to make it at the next level against the odds.

Every QB is different, and those that you mentioned bring zero to the mallett table.

Odds have nothing to do with the ability of a player

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I don't get the lust for Hoyer on this forum to keep him and push Mallett out. Hoyer is capable of being a starting QB now according to BB which is a good thing for him. I can see rating Hoyer at least 3rd over the other QBs in this Draft. You might say he has not a NFL resume, but neither do the Draftees. He is way ahead of the Draftees.

So you don't see the lust for a starting caliber QB with three years experience in the system as your backup? I guess you slept through 2008...

Why is not Mallett the four year plan to replace Brady? He has the tools, the smarts, the arm.
He's losing snaps to Hoyer.

Because Bill cares about winning now and Brady is the QB and Hoyer is best suited and qualified to back him up. Brady also hasn't even shown a hint of losing ground and since he's been a perennial all pro and GOAT performer that's saying something. Why on earth would you want to project his replacement years before the fact? Mallett's contract will expire after the 2014 season and he will be a UFA. Same deal with Brady. Want to bet who gets an extension in the next year or two? 'Cause they will only be extending one guy at starter money...

Hoyer is a manager which is great and those types have won SuperBowls. Mallett was a first round talent. Hoyer turned out to be a wise pick up as an UDFA.....BUT.........I want someone who can sling it.

Been there, done that...Brady's predecessor. Traded him within the division because Bill wants someone running his offense who can do a whole lot more than sling it...

We are spoiled TBs don't come around often, but I can go through rosters and see where Mallett can be better next year than half the NFL starters listed.

I could do the same thing with Hoyer but GM's don't care what you or I think.

I am not buying the RFA no sale of Hoyer. There were exactly.....none in the league! Draft day might be a different tune when the Weedens(????) and Cousins are gone off the Board. Cleveland should consider Hoyer.

Those guys will go off the board to teams in the market for a developmental starter. And they will pay them less than half of what Hoyer would have commanded because their draft slot dictates their contract. UFA backups are making more than those potential rookie starters will. Hoyer would require a level of committment on a starters deal of likely $6M+ per. He wasn't interested in being someone else's backup. He won't be any more interested in being that come draft day. Noteam is going to trade much for the opportunity to pay him $1.8M this year to back up their guy in a system he has no foundation in. Even Pioli won't go there because at this point his seat is getting a little warm and the natives in KC aren't all that keen on either him or the last QB he plucked off the NEP backup QB roster... Cleveland probably should consider Hoyer, but since they didn't already when they had the chance to they likely won't.

Look at it this way. If we get a second for Mallett we gained one position. If we get a second for Hoyer, we scored.

We get "Googotz" if we let Hoyer go in 2013. What is everyone thinking here. I don't get it?

We get a proven veteran backup to TFB with three years experience in the system, just like Cassel had heading into 2008. Last time out that netted us 11 wins...

I feel the Pats got their QB for the future last year.

DW Toys

Why? Because he had a first round grade based on measurables talent? The road to the NFL is littered with guys at that position who did and never amounted to much. While the guy you seem so eager to replace only graded out as a 3-4th rounder and fell to the 6th because people ignored the film and bought the not a blue chipper talent wise stereotype ergo presuming a limited ceiling as a potential backup and he only turned out to be arguably the GOAT at the position.

What's that old saying, those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it? As Bill says, once you draft a guy it doesn't matter what round you took him in. What matters is what kind of player he turns out to be in your system...

 

[goheels22002]

It's debatable he was fine until the first comma... After that he was off the rails.

You were doing great until your first apostrophe. The Patriots have to be looking for the next Steve Young, now. TFB is going to be 35 in a few seconds. If the Patriots do anything, they keep re-stocking the cupboard and have done an impressive - unprecedented - job of replacing everyone from the 2002 SB team and still making it into the big game. There's only one guy left to replace. Belichick and the Krafts and Brady know that.

But who knows about either one of those guys? Mallett has the physical tools and Hoyer has the smarts and experience in the system, but neither is proven. Maybe one of them is the Chosen One. We just don't know.

As for listening for a trade opportunity, the Patriots will always do that. With the rookie cap being such a friendly thing, maybe this is the year of the big trade up to grab an elite player - probably a top offensive or defensive lineman - both areas where top-flight talent is needed. With the flat cap and $11 million in space right now, a rookie salary for three years is a bargain compared to any previous year.

I could see trading Mallett or Hoyer plus the #27 pick for a top ten selection to get a guy like Mankins or Seymour. There are a couple of rookies in each category that fit the profile but who will be long gone at #27.

 

[eagle eye]

Lots of people really dismissing Brian Hoyer as just a game manager here. I don't know for sure how good he is but he certainly hasn't done anything wrong to this point. We really haven't seen him much in the regular season but anytime he did play he played well.

Nobody knows anything about Ryan Mallett since he got here but we have people telling us he is the real deal. I just don't get that, if Brady missed a game in the morning and I had to pick his replacement for that game with the very limited information I've got then it would certainly be Brian Hoyer that would be starting. And on what I've seen of him I'd rank him on the same level as Matt Flynn. Flynn got a nice contract based on one game in a QB friendly system.

 

[Snake Eyes]

Lots of people really dismissing Brian Hoyer as just a game manager here. I don't know for sure how good he is but he certainly hasn't done anything wrong to this point. We really haven't seen him much in the regular season but anytime he did play he played well

Hoyer doesn't fit the suit of a franchise QB, this is one of the reasons why people are so quick to dismiss him, if he was 6'4 with a strong physique, chiseled looks with Troy Aikman hair, and was romantically linked to a few very attractive models everyone would be talking about how amazing he was in the time he played and how he's a franchise QB who's being held back by evil Bill Belichick.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Those guys will go off the board to teams in the market for a developmental starter. And they will pay them less than half of what Hoyer would have commanded because their draft slot dictates their contract. UFA backups are making more than those potential rookie starters will. Hoyer would require a level of committment on a starters deal of likely $6M+ per. He wasn't interested in being someone else's backup. He won't be any more interested in being that come draft day. Noteam is going to trade much for the opportunity to pay him $1.8M this year to back up their guy in a system he has no foundation in. Even Pioli won't go there because at this point his seat is getting a little warm and the natives in KC aren't all that keen on either him or the last QB he plucked off the NEP backup QB roster... Cleveland probably should consider Hoyer, but since they didn't already when they had the chance to they likely won't.

FWIW, it's at least possible they might not have pulled the trigger because they were waiting to see how the draft turns out. If they can get the guy they want, they go with him; if not, they trade for Hoyer.

 

[DW Toys]

Why? Because he had a first round grade based on measurables talent? The road to the NFL is littered with guys at that position who did and never amounted to much. While the guy you seem so eager to replace only graded out as a 3-4th rounder and fell to the 6th because people ignored the film and bought the not a blue chipper talent wise stereotype ergo presuming a limited ceiling as a potential backup and he only turned out to be arguably the GOAT at the position.

What's that old saying, those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it? As Bill says, once you draft a guy it doesn't matter what round you took him in. What matters is what kind of player he turns out to be in your system...

OK. Let's agree to disagree. I would suspect you really like Hoyer and you feel your case is strong on keeping him......but alas, the Pats did allow him to "shop his wares". I feel that is not a very strong indication of dying love and affection so I have to extend my disagreement to really disagreement.
Hey will all have our, as you guys say..."binkies". I am not in love with Mallett but keeping him versus a game manager like Hoyer makes sense.

Hoyer is a capable backup but BB states he can be a starter for an NFL Team. What that means in salesmen talk is "Yes Mr. Customer, we can show you the Carfax".

Here is how I dissect your argument about RFA signings. Wallace could have had his agent take a $6-$8m dollar deal. The fact is a Team gives up a first rounder. I still think Wallace can be traded...but I also think a Team like Cleveland would be remiss not to talk to the Pats about Hoyer Draft day if not already. Maybe it is not a second rounder but the Browns have .

Being spoiled like you and I are about the Pats good fortunes of a decent second and third QB are moot points if BB wants to take a second rounder for either. Lower round Draft picks for BB is more exciting than porn and the Browns have 13 Draft picks. 2 in each the 4th, 5th and 6th. Would BB take one of each of those 4,5 and 6 for Hoyer? Yep. That is of more interest than a second to BB any day.

I think that Mallet is the better QB. Much more upside.
Whether BB extends Brady or Mallett in four years is not a real indication of anything. Third rounder versus UDFA is still a valid NFL comparison. We have had failures both ways.
DW Toys

 

[ctpatsfan77]

2 in each the 4th, 5th and 6th. Would BB take one of each of those 4,5 and 6 for Hoyer? Yep. That is of more interest than a second to BB any day.

Then why did he trade away this year's 5, 6, AND 7?

 

[DW Toys]

Then why did he trade away this year's 5, 6, AND 7?

He already used those arrow from his quiver.
I am not a huge fan of quantity versus quality. I would say a superb draft would be if just three of the six make it we did well. Why go lower rounds? Who the hell knows.

Not that many roster spots anyway IMO.
DW Toys

 

[MoLewisrocks]

OK. Let's agree to disagree. I would suspect you really like Hoyer and you feel your case is strong on keeping him......but alas, the Pats did allow him to "shop his wares". I feel that is not a very strong indication of dying love and affection so I have to extend my disagreement to really disagreement.
Hey will all have our, as you guys say..."binkies". I am not in love with Mallett but keeping him versus a game manager like Hoyer makes sense.

A strong indication of their "dying" love...would have been not to tender him at all. If they were ambivalent they'd have original round tendered him, which is his case meant we can keep you around or let you go when we get to camp and see how Mallett is doing with no compensation. They second round tendered him, and likely thought about a first but read the market right so aren't overpaying for one more year as a quality backup. He won't be here next season not because they'd just as soon move on, but because like with Cassel and most other developmental QB's worth developing they want a shot at starting somewhere and barring injury it ain't gonna happen for them here. Same deal for Mallett... Only backup who never started that I can remember extending to remain a backup was Manning's former backup - and he then managed to get hurt and they walked away from him. I think he is or was one of Eli's backups now. GM's and HC's don't think too highly of a young guy who passes on a chance to even fight for a shot at starting anywhere because he's happy to just be a backup.

Hoyer is a capable backup but BB states he can be a starter for an NFL Team. What that means in salesmen talk is "Yes Mr. Customer, we can show you the Carfax".

Here is how I dissect your argument about RFA signings. Wallace could have had his agent take a $6-$8m dollar deal. The fact is a Team gives up a first rounder. I still think Wallace can be traded...but I also think a Team like Cleveland would be remiss not to talk to the Pats about Hoyer Draft day if not already. Maybe it is not a second rounder but the Browns have .

Wallace never heard a whisper of interest. He wasn't discounting himself and no one was paying remotely what he was looking for with a draft pick thrown in too boot. Still won't. Steelers have no need to trade him, he's their's cheap for one more year in a contract season. If he solidifies his value they may tag and trade him. If not they may get him to sign at a more reasonable price or let him walk and get a 3rd round comp pick for him. They cannot trade him during the draft unless he has signed his tender. And he isn't likely to do that because there wouldn't be time to work out a long term deal with whomever he was being traded to (which would really devalue him from a Steeler standpoint).

Being spoiled like you and I are about the Pats good fortunes of a decent second and third QB are moot points if BB wants to take a second rounder for either. Lower round Draft picks for BB is more exciting than porn and the Browns have 13 Draft picks. 2 in each the 4th, 5th and 6th. Would BB take one of each of those 4,5 and 6 for Hoyer? Yep. That is of more interest than a second to BB any day.

But is that of more interest to Bill than having a competent backup on the roster - let alone one he never had to spend a draft pick on? And if it is, would it not be just as tantalizing for him to trade Mallett whom he drafted in the 3rd for a 3rd, 4th and 5th (that he certainly would have taken for that pick before he made it...). See, that's the part of the equation you simply won't factor in because you assume any kid who had a first round grade must be good enough to be that guy for any team...even though history has proven that to consistently not be the case. And I thought that used to be the basis of your aversion to the draft and what made trading picks for someone else's under utilized or expendable poorly coached pick more appealing to you...although that is what you seem to want Holmgren to do to us now...

I think that Mallet is the better QB. Much more upside.
Whether BB extends Brady or Mallett in four years is not a real indication of anything. Third rounder versus UDFA is still a valid NFL comparison. We have had failures both ways.

DW Toys

Upside is potential not yet achieved... Sometimes it never is. Other times it is inexplicably exceeded. 5-6 guys were thought to have more of it than Brady back in 2006 and most of them never came close to achieving it. Hell, one of them turned out instead to be a yoga practicing goat farmer - much to Steve Mariucci and Bill Walsh's chagrin. And whether BB extends Brady or Mallett will be the ultimate indication...as far as the NEP are concerned.

 

[lurker1965]

What I learned from this thread:

1) When Brady retires in week 3 Mallet can start his HOF career.
2) Hoyer is chopped liver, but worth a serious pick.