Patriots type 3-4 OLB

[bucky]

But, bucky ... Arrington? Really? A UDFA cornerback/special teamer who was in at "DE" for a few plays at the end of ONE game and he makes your list of "pass-rushers who failed"? Sorry. No disrespect, but you might want to excise that one.

I understand your point, though, and if you want to expand the list to include non-drafted acquisitions, we're also talking about Mike Wright and TBC (who, IMO, was originally drafted as just a sub-rusher, AND brought back as a sub-rusher, but, through an unfortunate set of circumstances, ended up playing a much larger role than he was cut out for).

I'm not sure I expressed my point clearly. It's actually quite simple and high level: our 3rd down personnel is quite bad - to the point that BB tried Arrington there for almost a full half. So whatever the strategy has been, it's not getting it done lately. Which is why a lot of people including myself are suggesting a strategy of using a relatively high pick (let's just say top 50) to get an immediate upgrade at pass rusher who can potentially evolve into 3 down OLB. Arguably, Cunningham is such a guy, but he's not that great of a pass rusher.

 

[jays52]

I'll 3rd that emotion.

Here's a poll on the Chargers Forum on the Watt vs Wilkerson debate. (Watt is way ahead).

Who Would You Rather: Muhammad Wilkerson or JJ Watt? - The Official San Diego Chargers Forum

Wilkerson's technique is deeply disconcerting to me. He plays with poor pad level, has poor handspeed, and showed very stiff hips when he had to drop them to align his kinetic energy. He's certainly a great athlete, but his muscle memory is poor. That takes time to correct, and given the projected schematic responsibility he seems like a project player.

 

[Off The Grid]

Wilkerson's technique is deeply disconcerting to me. He plays with poor pad level, has poor handspeed, and showed very stiff hips when he had to drop them to align his kinetic energy. He's certainly a great athlete, but his muscle memory is poor. That takes time to correct, and given the projected schematic responsibility he seems like a project player.

Beautifully put.

I cannot for the life of me understand all the Wilkerson Love, hereabouts.

Well, each to their own.

But he was never on my Board.

 

[IllegalContact]

Beautifully put.

I cannot for the life of me understand all the Wilkerson Love, hereabouts.

Well, each to their own.

But he was never on my Board.

well......I guess that all that should have mattered to anyone....would have helped if you posted this sooner so the rest of us would not have had to waste our time...

likewise with the Watt love......following in carriker's footsteps

 

[MaineMan]

I'm not sure I expressed my point clearly. It's actually quite simple and high level: our 3rd down personnel is quite bad - to the point that BB tried Arrington there for almost a full half. So whatever the strategy has been, it's not getting it done lately. Which is why a lot of people including myself are suggesting a strategy of using a relatively high pick (let's just say top 50) to get an immediate upgrade at pass rusher who can potentially evolve into 3 down OLB. Arguably, Cunningham is such a guy, but he's not that great of a pass rusher.

Sure, he rushed a few times, but actually, I thought Arrington was in there for three reasons:
(1) Screw with Manning's head
(2) He's a better run defender than anyone else we could have put in at LDE
(3) He could drop back into coverage better than any of our D-linemen (kind of a sneaky way to put an extra DB on the field)

 

[jsull87]

what are peoples thoughts on allen baily? i was watching some drills before and he looked like a guy who is interesting. He was a guy being mentioned in the 1st round then suddenly dropped off everyone's radar

 

[IllegalContact]

what are peoples thoughts on allen baily? i was watching some drills before and he looked like a guy who is interesting. He was a guy being mentioned in the 1st round then suddenly dropped off everyone's radar

he'd be good situationally like jarvis green was, but I don't think he would be a 3-down guy......too light

 

[Spiral]

Glad to see that some people are considering Acho at ILB. I'm not a draft expert, but I watch just about every UT game. He actually played a lot at DT this year, mainly because there was no one else on the team who was willing/able to play the position. It may be hard to evaluate him on tape for that reason. It's also hard because he's #81, his brother is #18, and they both moved around a lot. I think he has some position flexibility and also has the intellect to pick up mulitple positions. Reminds me of Roman Phifer. Not as good as Brian Orakpo, but could play in the league for 10 years. A good pick from #74 on, IMO

 

[Water Boy]

Wilkerson's technique is deeply disconcerting to me. He plays with poor pad level, has poor handspeed, and showed very stiff hips when he had to drop them to align his kinetic energy. He's certainly a great athlete, but his muscle memory is poor. That takes time to correct, and given the projected schematic responsibility he seems like a project player.

Have you seen much film on the guy? I have not. Most scouts seem to think he's a fantastic 3-4 DE prospect.

 

[Brady2Welker]

he'd be good situationally like jarvis green was, but I don't think he would be a 3-down guy......too light

Bailey wouldn't be a 3-4 DE for us. He'd play standing up, or situationally going to DE on third downs. He was 280-290 (I don't remember which) at the combine, he had a private workout with the Patriots and them shows up at his pro day weighing 275. I could just be crying wolf here at trying to predict the Patriots personnel moves but they might have asked him to shed a bit to see his versatility. The fact that the Patriots have been around him so much (especially BB) has me thinking well see him wearing a flying Elvis soon. I wasn't s huge fan of him immediately, but he's growing on me as a second round pick; hes not the most fluid in space but Theres something to be said about his explosion measurements at his size (6'3 280 with a 36 vertical and over 10 foot broad).

 

[jays52]

Have you seen much film on the guy? I have not. Most scouts seem to think he's a fantastic 3-4 DE prospect.

Much? No, I haven't. I have seen a fair amount of him, though, and enough to form an informed opinion. Athletically the guy is a beast. Strong, quick enough, long as hell, but he's sloppy. He gets by against inferior competition on athleticism. He leans into stuff too much, gives up his breastplate, and just kind of Gojira's his way through lesser athletes. If he tried that stuff against big-10 or SEC lines (nevermind NFL) he would get abused by equal athletes with far superior technique. This is especially going to prove true against NFL running games that not only rely on inside/outside zone, but also the power. Wilkerson could legitimately get injured as a playside end against the power o with this current technique.

Beware the sportswriters. Scouts work for NFL teams, writers work for websites.

 

[Off The Grid]

Beautifully put.

I cannot for the life of me understand all the Wilkerson Love, hereabouts.

Well, each to their own.

But he was never on my Board.

well......I guess that all that should have mattered to anyone....would have helped if you posted this sooner so the rest of us would not have had to waste our time...

likewise with the Watt love......following in carriker's footsteps

Simmer DOWN, Francis.

I was merely expressing my opinion...if that's okay with you!!

 

[Ochmed Jones]

Much? No, I haven't. I have seen a fair amount of him, though, and enough to form an informed opinion. Athletically the guy is a beast. Strong, quick enough, long as hell, but he's sloppy. He gets by against inferior competition on athleticism. He leans into stuff too much, gives up his breastplate, and just kind of Gojira's his way through lesser athletes. If he tried that stuff against big-10 or SEC lines (nevermind NFL) he would get abused by equal athletes with far superior technique. This is especially going to prove true against NFL running games that not only rely on inside/outside zone, but also the power. Wilkerson could legitimately get injured as a playside end against the power o with this current technique.

Beware the sportswriters. Scouts work for NFL teams, writers work for websites.

Out on the internet is the Temple - Penn State game. Wilkerson lines up at both DT and DE. I have charted every play from the game that Wilkerson is on the field and have come to the conclusion that after Dareus, he is the best 3-4 DE in this draft for our defense.

On several occasions Wisnewski needed help dealing with Wilkerson on the inside. I consider Wisnewski of Penn State to be an excellent college technician.

Wilkerson struggles with side blocks, but Dante can fix that fairly easily and once Wilkerson gets up to par with NFL strengrth, he will be a Ty Warren clone.

 

[Off The Grid]

Wilkerson's technique is deeply disconcerting to me.

I know exactly what you mean.

It was kind of like that time...when my favorite band cancelled their show that I was going to go to.

Very disconcerting.

I was so crestfallen that I dropped my toothpaste.

 

[Off The Grid]

He leans into stuff too much, gives up his breastplate, and just kind of Gojiras his way through lesser athletes.

For those of you who're new to Scouting Lexicon, I'll explain:

Gojira ~ Go.JEE.ra ~ Verb ~ Transitive

1 ~ To perpetrate a distinctly Gojira-like demeanor.

2 ~ To emulate a Gorija-esque philosophy.

3 ~ To carry oneself in a manner starkly akin to that which elicits thoughts of Gojira.

4 ~ To trade purely on one's raw physical talents, with nary a thought to Technique.

Gojira ~ aka ~ GODZILLA!!

Editor's Note: This discussion in NO way impugns Brother Godzilla, my Brother From Another Mother, who ~ as you all know ~ plays with a GREAT Base, and is utterly STAUNCH against the run...although he HAS been known to blow his Gap Discipline and go on the occasional Rampage...from time to time.

 

[IllegalContact]

here's some fodder for you watt-lovers to get on hating with

2011 mock draft, take three | ProFootballTalk

its actually pretty funny.....the pats pass on jj watt to take..........brooks reed......

commence firing

 

[West Philly Patriot]

Bailey wouldn't be a 3-4 DE for us. He'd play standing up, or situationally going to DE on third downs. He was 280-290 (I don't remember which) at the combine, he had a private workout with the Patriots and them shows up at his pro day weighing 275. I could just be crying wolf here at trying to predict the Patriots personnel moves but they might have asked him to shed a bit to see his versatility. The fact that the Patriots have been around him so much (especially BB) has me thinking well see him wearing a flying Elvis soon. I wasn't s huge fan of him immediately, but he's growing on me as a second round pick; hes not the most fluid in space but Theres something to be said about his explosion measurements at his size (6'3 280 with a 36 vertical and over 10 foot broad).

Right. Reports have it that he showed up to his pro day @ 275. Thats a 10lb drop from his combine weight. He's telling the league he wants to be considered by 3-4 teams as an OLB. I would love this guy in the mid to late 2nd, especially if we trade back with 28 to pick up multiple picks.

I have waffled on this guy a lot but I'm onboard. He showed great explosion at 285 losing 15lbs with a good S&C could do wonders for this guy. We have some of the best coaches in the business imo and he can still be molded.

I have read another poster say we have good steady contributors on the outside already, we need some explosiveness and someone that requires the opposition to gameplan for them. This guy is obviously not a DE and the only problem now is with all the attention BB has been giving him. Other teams may be all over him and BB will not reach.