Patriots Daily News Thread Patriots Tuesday 12/5/23

[Real fan 02]

Will die on this take
We win the Superbowl in 2019 with a AB/Edelman combo

I'm right with you. We saw immediately the impact of having a future HOF WR would do and be for the offense. I know ABs got issues but had he kept it together that season we absolutely get to another Superbowl. By the end of that season we were stuck with sunu...

 

[Ian]

Nice read from Hurley:

 

[sb1]

Still can't believe this is going on in New York.

Wait ... yes I can.

SIGN THE... err maybe not.

 

[Guts]

Nice read from Hurley:

Yes the Steelers/Patriots game is definitely a meme lol

 

[Ian]

Yes the Steelers/Patriots game is definitely a meme lol

LOL, trying to do this from my phone. And failing.

 

[Toofy]

I actually have put some thought into the reverse of this though. What if Bill goes elsewhere and is very successful, and whoever Kraft replaces him with still sucks? I think Kraft's reputation will get eviscerated.

I honestly don't think anybody puts too much onus on owners reputation especially fans. Kraft will get credit for hiring bill and winning super bowl 6 times.

Whereas bill will also get similar credit of having Brady and winning 6 rings. But the legacy of his coaching takes a big hit. If he wins elsewhere he could reclaim it . Otherwise it's going to be pretty difficult because without Brady bill has not had overall win ratio greater than 50%

 

[Ian]

Can't recall if I posted this yesterday or not:

 

[Steve102]

Nice read from Callahan:

Patriots-Chargers film review: Bill Belichick’s worst roster flaw is killing the offense

The Patriots’ quarterbacks are a problem. But this position group is undermining their season just as much badly. Step inside the Herald’s film room to find out how.

www.bostonherald.com

From the article:

"Like the lonely zero that hung on the scoreboard at Gillette Stadium on Sunday, Bill Belichick’s history of drafting wide receivers is sad, painful and plain to see.

Do you know the last college receiver the Patriots selected who became a multi-year NFL starter?

That would be Deion Branch in 2002. That’s right.

It’s been more than 20 years since Belichick drafted and developed a true wideout. Tom Brady papered over that problem for two decades, as he did many dynasty-era deficiencies. But now Belichick’s receiving corps is undermining the Patriots more than any other non-quarterback position on the roster."

Some other good stuff in here as well including that Zappe was actually pretty accurate despite the outcome, and some other good bits of info.

If you really get into it, I think we will find that he's gotten his core offensive skill players from guys already in the league. Patten, Fauria, Smith, Dillon, Moss, Welker, Amendola, Stallworth, Gaffney, Blount, Hogan all were vets in the league. The home grown offensive talent is a much shorter list: Branch, Ben Watson, Edelman, Gronk, the other TE idiot, Sweet Feet, Sony (yeah I know he's polarizing), and of course Brady. Bill builds defense and OL via draft, fills in the rest with FAs, and he's missed on a bunch of late because he doesn't have the QB to lift them up.

I guess if you really analyze it, not much has changed. This is how he does it.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

I think everyone is going to get discounted when Brady was around. Bill legacy has taken a pounding . And if bill goes elsewhere and loses its going to eb even more.

Edelman is revered here but always considered a byproduct of brady's greatness. Only gronk held his own in eyes of other fans and media as one of the best in their positions.

But our offense drafting has been putrid. We don't even have someone like tank dell or Puka nacua in last 8 years of drafting. That's how bad we are.

Everyone is basing decisions of analytics and other advanced metrics while bill js hiring based on recommendations and looking decent in interviews.

To put in software parlance bill is dealing with mainframes while rest of league is dealing with supercomputers and artificial intelligence.

I wonder if scheme is part of the reason drafted wr never flourish here? Its a complex system that few get. The only drafted wr to ever do well here were branch, edelman, givens, jacobi (udfa). None of these guys are really that imposing or talented physically, more cerebral players. So Even on the wr hits weve never had a freakish guy like aj brown , dk metcalf, or deebo samuel come in and succeed via the draft. Moss worked well but was a veteran, he was also known as an incredibly intelligent player.

 

[mike_usagisan]

If you really get into it, I think we will find that he's gotten his core offensive skill players from guys already in the league. Patten, Fauria, Smith, Dillon, Moss, Welker, Amendola, Stallworth, Gaffney, Blount, Hogan all were vets in the league. The home grown offensive talent is a much shorter list: Branch, Ben Watson, Edelman, Gronk, the other TE idiot, Sweet Feet, Sony (yeah I know he's polarizing), and of course Brady. Bill builds defense and OL via draft, fills in the rest with FAs, and he's missed on a bunch of late because he doesn't have the QB to lift them up.

I guess if you really analyze it, not much has changed. This is how he does it.

I don't think was a bad way to build it either. I would point to the OL and the QB draft picks not working out that has dragged the entire offense down.

 

[Wax Frog]

LOL, trying to do this from my phone. And failing.

Sounds like it's time for a bit of "lazy" Waxy AI...

 

[Steve102]

I don't think was a bad way to build it either. I would point to the OL and the QB draft picks not working out that has dragged the entire offense down.

That's accurate. It worked for him the whole time, until it didn't. I would wager that Henry, Gesicki, Parker, and even Agholor would have all flourished under Tom. The OL is bad and QB is as well.

I get that everyone wants to pick on the WR drafting thing, myself included. It's the lowest hanging fruit. I think if you take the emotional fixation OMG BILL PICK A STUD WR out of it, he's been consistent in his methods.

For those of you keeping score, Ryland, Gostkowski, Rohrwasser, and Poachman were all kickers drafted by Bill. He's consistent in his methods. Barringer is the first punter that I see, however.

EDIT: I missed Bailey and Mesko as punters, thanks. @Hammer of Thor

Patriots Draft History

 

[Ross12]

If you really get into it, I think we will find that he's gotten his core offensive skill players from guys already in the league. Patten, Fauria, Smith, Dillon, Moss, Welker, Amendola, Stallworth, Gaffney, Blount, Hogan all were vets in the league. The home grown offensive talent is a much shorter list: Branch, Ben Watson, Edelman, Gronk, the other TE idiot, Sweet Feet, Sony (yeah I know he's polarizing), and of course Brady. Bill builds defense and OL via draft, fills in the rest with FAs, and he's missed on a bunch of late because he doesn't have the QB to lift them up.

I guess if you really analyze it, not much has changed. This is how he does it.

Yeah, this is a good way to summarize it. Bill has always been good at drafting and developing defense, OL and probably RB. The rest of the offense really was generally built upon grabbing undervalued vets or guys who hadn't gotten a chance elsewhere and who get a chance to prove themselves in NE. The issue lately has really just been that his free agent signings on offense the last few years have kind of sucked, combined with losing his all-time-great QB, and the next man up at QB falling apart.

Theoretically though, the defense is still great when everyone is healthy and this year has allowed the depth guys to get a lot of experience. Bill could potentially try again with tons of upcoming cap space from 2024 forward, paired with premium draft capital. What if he signs Mike Evans and a few role players on offense, solidifies the OL via free agency and the draft, and is able to draft the next great QB at #2?

 

[Ian]

 

[Ian]

Zappe's press conference is upcoming at 12:45pm:

 

[Ian]

Opponents have only had two rushes of 20yds+ since Week 5:

2023 Top 10 Longest Patriots Opponent Offensive Plays - Receiving and Rushing

www.patsfans.com

 

[Steve102]

Yeah, this is a good way to summarize it. Bill has always been good at drafting and developing defense, OL and probably RB. The rest of the offense really was generally built upon grabbing undervalued vets or guys who hadn't gotten a chance elsewhere and who get a chance to prove themselves in NE. The issue lately has really just been that his free agent signings on offense the last few years have kind of sucked, combined with losing his all-time-great QB, and the next man up at QB falling apart.

Theoretically though, the defense is still great when everyone is healthy and this year has allowed the depth guys to get a lot of experience. Bill could potentially try again with tons of upcoming cap space from 2024 forward, paired with premium draft capital. What if he signs Mike Evans and a few role players on offense, solidifies the OL via free agency and the draft, and is able to draft the next great QB at #2?

They'd be in business. Back at it real quick, as long as they hit on a QB who doesn't melt when he's yelled at.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

That's accurate. It worked for him the whole time, until it didn't. I would wager that Henry, Gesicki, Parker, and even Agholor would have all flourished under Tom. The OL is bad and QB is as well.

I get that everyone wants to pick on the WR drafting thing, myself included. It's the lowest hanging fruit. I think if you take the emotional fixation OMG BILL PICK A STUD WR out of it, he's been consistent in his methods.

For those of you keeping score, Ryland, Gostkowski, Rohrwasser, and Poachman were all kickers drafted by Bill. He's consistent in his methods. Barringer is the first punter that I see, however.

Patriots Draft History

Zoltan was a 5th rounder in 2010, Jake Bailey was a 5th rounder in 2019.

 

[VrabelJr]

Peppers reaching his potential is another BB coaching miracle. Anfernee Jennings is another case of Next Man Up and probably not giving the job back.

 

[Steve102]

Zoltan was a 5th rounder in 2010, Jake Bailey was a 5th rounder in 2019.

I knew Bailey but spaced it, but I missed Zoltan, thanks. I should have remembered, I loved the name. Zoltan Mesko.