Patriots Traitors

[BradyBirdYazOrr]

I think if the whole truth ever comes out Willie Mac will move up this list...though Lardboy tuna is definitely tops...just for the sheer gall afterwards and his deriliction of duty before he left

 

[BradyBirdYazOrr]

I also think Parcells leaving triggered the mass migration of our players to the Jets. It was very interesting to read what BB had to say about this in Patriot Reign.

It could also be said that Milloy could qualify for this list as well when he refused to restructure his deal and forced BB to cut him for cap reasons.

Having said this, I voted for Benedict Kicker! The fact that he won 3 Super Bowls with us and then turned around wanted to leave NE is worse than what Tuna did.

Dont get me wrong im sickened by the little punk kicker but...could it be the hero status was too much...he knew he was going to be exposed...eventually and especially if he had re-signed with us our glass half empty sportswriters would have eventually started looking closer at his numbers and his golden image may have been tarnished....moving to a dome his numbers should improve...and he becomes an icon to our media..cause anyone who stiffs us is their hero...the Boston Sportswriters are our biggest wolves in sheeps clothing.....have you ever noticed when Holley, Gammons or any of our local writers get on national tv they almost make it a point to trash the home teams?I guess a Boston sports fan in the national media carries the same stigma as a Republican in hollyweird.

 

[pats1]

I think the whole "traitor" thing took a hit when the free agency/salary cap era rolled around. Before then, the system was set up for players to remain with their teams for most of their careers, creating security for fans to build allegiances with their favorite players. Now, with the system much different, you just have to get used to the turnover in the game, as it's not always a "traitor" situation.

Such can be witnessed just be seeing some of the reactions to the remnants of the 2001 roster. It's not the way it used to be, folks. Casual fans (say, those newscasters or less-informed, fair-weather writers) who hold less of a bearing on the roster past the main stars (who have, in most cases, been around for awhile) will think the roster pretty much stays the same through the middle class-down. When one of the high-profile players leaves in a relatively similar manner in which these lower-profile players leave under the radar, it strikes these casual fans (not calling anyone here one, obviously) in such a way that the team has violently cut ties with this player or the player is a traitor. This traces back to the whole pre-free agency era.

 

[zippo59]

I think the whole "traitor" thing took a hit when the free agency/salary cap era rolled around. Before then, the system was set up for players to remain with their teams for most of their careers, creating security for fans to build allegiances with their favorite players. Now, with the system much different, you just have to get used to the turnover in the game, as it's not always a "traitor" situation.

I wouldn't call negotiating with another team the night before your current team plays the SB bussiness as usual.

 

[fgssand]

I think if the whole truth ever comes out Willie Mac will move up this list...though Lardboy tuna is definitely tops...just for the sheer gall afterwards and his deriliction of duty before he left

Dare I ask?? And please. cite a source - not just some made up babble....

 

[pats1]

I wouldn't call negotiating with another team the night before your current team plays the SB bussiness as usual.

It's a business, you have to understand that. Just because they're playing in the Super Bowl or in a period of success and allegiance or whatnot with their team doesn't stop the notion that free agency IS A BUSINESS.

: pats1 looks at zippo59's sig :

...uhh...

 

[Brarrell]

Gotta be the Tuna

He took his eye off the ball in the 96 Super Bowl - putting his own concerns ahead of the team and it cost us the game. That's just plain unPatriotic.

That being said I'll always appreciate the football credibility he helped bring back to New England during his short tenure.

Curtis should bear no ill will among any of us IMO and AV, righthly or wrongly (wrongly IMO) feels like the management didn't respect him enough with their earlier offers.

Your kidding right? Lets see Martin won"t negotiate with the Pats for months all of a sudden he fires his agent a new agent represents him and he signs with Tuna within days, a poison pill contract is offered knowing the Pats won't resign him. OK I know Curtis is a well respected guy and all that, but in this situation he was a snake he wanted to play for Parcells and he got his wish and the money. So now every time the Pats kick their ass I love it and especially when Martin is playing.

 

[rabthepat]

The TUNA wins it...

Hands down he is the Benedict Arnold of our times. He screws us in the Superbowl by not having the team totally prepared and focused. Then he cuts and runs to the Jets and takes our players.

We should have beaten Green Bay and won our 1st Superbowl. Bill Belichick would have gotten it done.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I wouldn't call him a traitor, but the one that disturbed me the most, and still does, was the loss of Willie McGinest.

My favorite Pats player, and playing at his best....

MegaDittos NEM. I agree.

 

[BradyBirdYazOrr]

Dare I ask?? And please. cite a source - not just some made up babble....

I dont think this is my made up story Joey....there has been whole threads here and even articles written on it....The whole impropriety with the agents and all ...and his link agentwise with adam....Gosh...You aint been around too long huh newbie

 

[shmessy]

Your kidding right? Lets see Martin won"t negotiate with the Pats for months all of a sudden he fires his agent a new agent represents him and he signs with Tuna within days, a poison pill contract is offered knowing the Pats won't resign him. OK I know Curtis is a well respected guy and all that, but in this situation he was a snake he wanted to play for Parcells and he got his wish and the money. So now every time the Pats kick their ass I love it and especially when Martin is playing.

Wow, that's clueless. You think Curtis thought up how to construct the poison pill offer sheet? Parcells had nothing to do with it?

Martin moved only one person from the Pats - himself. Parcells moved at least four - himself, Tupa, Martin and BB.

I'm not defending Martin, but you should learn a thing or two about which came first - - the Tuna or the egg.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Your kidding right? Lets see Martin won"t negotiate with the Pats for months all of a sudden he fires his agent a new agent represents him and he signs with Tuna within days, a poison pill contract is offered knowing the Pats won't resign him. OK I know Curtis is a well respected guy and all that, but in this situation he was a snake he wanted to play for Parcells and he got his wish and the money. So now every time the Pats kick their ass I love it and especially when Martin is playing.

It's "you're" kidding (the contraction for "you" and "are" whereas "your" is a possessive pronoun) and sure - Curtis took the money - an at the time unprecedented $6 million a year or so if I recall which was far more than the Patriots were willing to pay him upfront.

I don't begrudge players for taking a better contract with for more money. I don't begrudge Givens for doing it, I didn't begrudge Andruzzi for doing it, etc. etc. Are you a traitor if you leave your job for a better offer for more money and more security?

But I don't recall that Martin "refused" to negotiate with the Pats for months. Generally speaking I thought the Patriots and most coaches/GMs, including Parcells, generally don't like to negotiate contracts during the season... (i.e. those "months" when Curtis "refused" to negotiate.) How many Patriots players renegotiated their contracts during the middle of last season? Maybe they all "refused" to negotiate as well???

So in your conspriacy theory, Curtis "refused to negotiate" obviously with the knowledge that Parcells would be leaving at the end of the season (even though Parcells didn't know that yet) and he would go play for him for mega millions and that Parcells would give up all those draft picks to get him?

I guess that's what happened if you say so - you seem to know much more about this than me.

I really don't even begrudge Parcells for putting in a poison pill in his RFA offer. He wasn't breaking the letter of the law - though I think it was slimy and not in keeping with the spirit of the law - but I say shame on Tagliabue for looking the other way rather than cracking down on such a practice right then and there.

Seemingly they again allow poison pills in contracts and if the NFL isn't going to enforce that policy I'd say its fair game for BB and the Pats to use that to their advantage as well.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

You guys can't be serious.

Rule number one of the pro sports world:
You can admire loyalty, but you cannot demand it, outside of contractual terms.

Now, when under contract, you perform your obligations, and if you're at all human, you relish in it. BB has built a team in New England that epitomizes the "enough is enough" athlete - they come to play (for the most part,) leave the business on the conference table, put on the cleats, and enjoy functioning as a team. But cast your mind back to the infancy of the salary cap...

Superstars were the rage. You had to have those Aikman/Irving/Smith "triplets" reproduced in your system to win. Lunch pail guys - offensive and defensive linemen - weren't talked about unless they were spectacular sack monsters or physical freaks (Kearse.) It was assumed that there were no more dynasties. Sports was a me-first business, and athletes were brats. Belichick never accepted that, and after '01, everybody else started questioning it too. T.O? Moss? WHO CARES! Talk to me about your team, not your favorite "big name."

These guys departed to do what they thought was best for them, and that's still the perogative of every player or coach in the NFL. As for Curtis Martin, have we all forgotten how easily Robert Edwards replaced him, before his pro-bowl week injury? So he chose to migrate to New York - as always, the Pats went on without him. Yes, we had down years. Yes, we as fans suffered. But not as much as fans that have to sing the praises of Chad Pennington.

All that said - what's documented about Parcells talking to the Jets the night before the Super Bowl? Was it a 3 hour meeting? Was it a 10 minute "yeah we'll talk next week" phone call? Do all sides agree it even happened?

Treason's about countries. This is sports. Sports is a business.

But mid-'90s sports was an amateurish business, and the model has matured. Why? Because the "product" in sports is victories and championships. Your organization cannot move product without functioning as a team. Teams are corporate, not individual entities - and we come full circle. Just as a prima donna can destroy a good workplace environment (regardless of his value as a talent,) the same can happen in football. You need to move product, not have the best employees on paper. Bye-bye, prima donna. You'll land on your feet... somewhere.

It took the Belichik Patriots to show that to the league, and the league is still playing catchup today. As for "traitors?" Good thing it's we, the fans, that worry about silly notions like that. If BB or the team did, we'd never get anything won.

PFnV

 

[patman52]

Chuck fairbanks

 

[Mike the Brit]

It's a business, you have to understand that. Just because they're playing in the Super Bowl or in a period of success and allegiance or whatnot with their team doesn't stop the notion that free agency IS A BUSINESS.

: pats1 looks at zippo59's sig :

...uhh...

Yes, it's a business.

But how much money do you need? If you walk away from $10 million because somewhere else you're offered $11 million then, fair enough, you're playing by the rules, but it doesn't mean I have to respect you: you're a greedy person in my book.

What if you walk away from a franchise where you've been honored and loved for $200,000 dollars (having made a lot, lot more over your career). What if you don't give the team a chance to match? I think it shows that you really wanted out -- that you didn't like your teammates or the management or the ownership or the fans.

OK, that's your right, of course; I get the message -- now get out of my life!

 

[Leemo]

Anyone who voted AV is a ****** and shouldn't be associated with the Patriots organization. You really mustn't have any brain cells at all if you think that. Get the facts you knobs.

 

[desi-patsfan]

Anyone who voted AV is a ****** and shouldn't be associated with the Patriots organization. You really mustn't have any brain cells at all if you think that. Get the facts you knobs.

You think not giving the team, that has made you the highest paid kicker in the league and has given you many oppertunities to be the hero, a chance to match offers is fine? I dont hate adam but the way he left doesnt sit well with me.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

I think that some folks are taking this tongue-in-cheek polls' rants too seriously.
It's just a fun way to vent.

 

[Keegs]

Anyone who voted AV is a ****** and shouldn't be associated with the Patriots organization. You really mustn't have any brain cells at all if you think that. Get the facts you knobs.

Adam is a schmuck. I hate him as much as Peyton Manning now. He went to our biggest Rival and didn't give us a chance to match. No matter what he did it for selfish reasons.

If we found him we can find someone else. Correct me if im wrong but i believe he was an undrafted rookie free agent kicker. I'm willing to bet there are more from where he came from.

How are you not gonna feel sick to your stomach when you see him in that white colts uniform?

I was 14 when we lost To Green Bay and it really bothered me that Parcells left afterwards and took Curtis with him. Maybe i didn't know as much about football then as i do now so it didn't make me as mad as it should have.

But the Vinatieri situation just hurts more personally. I hope he blows it for them this year.

 

[Jacky Roberts]

Anyone who voted AV is a ****** and shouldn't be associated with the Patriots organization. You really mustn't have any brain cells at all if you think that. Get the facts you knobs.

^^clownshoe^^