Patriots Training Camp - Monday August 1st

[venecol]

If I have a big concern this year, it's this. We tried this scheme the first time Dante retired and it was a disaster. Patricia has more experience with it from his Detroit days. I'm not sure that's a good thing. It's harder for me to say BB knows what he's doing when we implemented this scheme in the 2013 season and Brady almost got killed. That was the year that Wes Welker hip-checked Aqib Talib coming across the middle.

I was reading about how difficult it is to make the outside zone blocking scheme click, by even guys that grew up in systems that use it. A lot of attention to detail and timing. This report isn't surprising, it'll take time.

 

[patfanken]

I was reading about how difficult it is to make the outside zone blocking scheme click, by even guys that grew up in systems that use it. A lot of attention to detail and timing. This report isn't surprising, it'll take time.

I am SHOCKED. I repeat SHOCKED!!!! that the Pats offense looked bad. I mean they have changed a bunch of schemes and terminology plus have a bunch of personnel changes. But C'MON they've had ONE padded practice so far after 3 glorified walk thru's, so I am DEFINITELY not being unreasonable when I am SHOCKED to see the offense isn't running at full effectiveness.

(YES I am being sarcastic)

I am losing my faith in Greg Bedard's objectivity. Clearly he is reporting WITH an agenda. He hates the offensive coaching lineup and makes no bones about it and every individual play that creates a narrative that supports his bias will be played up big, and every play that takes it into a positive light will be minimized or simply ignored.

Christ guy's, they are still installing major aspects of the offense. If they are going to run this "outside zone" then the OLmen are going to need to block guys on the fly. In other word they have to block an area rather than a specific defender, So why is ANYONE surprised that it wasn't very good the first time they try it. This is the kind of system that requires THOUSANDS of reps for the offense acquire a consistent level of competence. Yet Bedard and others were still shocked when it didn't go well for the FIRST 10 of those reps. They are simply not being fair.

BTW- Here's a newsflash. It isn't going to look much better tomorrow....and even if it does, it STILL won't matter because they have so much more work that needs to happen. So many more looks and reactions from the blockers and RB's, Talk about the need for instant gratification, Jeesh.

 

[pazrul72]

If Montgomery makes the 53...I'd like to see him return kicks instead of Dugger or Rham. He's returned 57 in his career with 1 fumble with 22 yd average. I prefer RB's to return kicks and WR/CB return punts...like Marcus Jones.

You have that backwards, for returning kicks you need long speed, you usually have a second to get going, set up blocks, and it’s more about top speed as quickly as possible. That’s WRs and CBs. For punts it’s more about being able to dodge guys in a phone booth. It’s quickness and being elusive cuz guys are on you the moment you catch the ball. That’s RBs and slot guys.

 

[venecol]

You have that backwards, for returning kicks you need long speed, you usually have a second to get going, set up blocks, and it’s more about top speed as quickly as possible. That’s WRs and CBs. For punts it’s more about being able to dodge guys in a phone booth. It’s quickness and being elusive cuz guys are on you the moment you catch the ball. That’s RBs and slot guys.

Isn't Montgomery both a RB & WR?

 

[venecol]

I noticed in some of the videos where Mac was throwing deep passes to Parker and Thornton, how much air there was on the ball. Both receivers had to slow down and wait for the ball to arrive. He needs to work on lowering the arc on the ball, which requires more velocity.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

People really acting like a training camp playsheet is the Krabby Patty recipe

 

[Zuma]

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I noticed in some of the videos where Mac was throwing deep passes to Parker and Thornton, how much air there was on the ball. Both receivers had to slow down and wait for the ball to arrive. He needs to work on lowering the arc on the ball, which requires more velocity.

A high arc is easier to catch and therefore a "better" or preferred ball. No need to lower the arc. If the ball is late Mac needs to release a split second earlier. That is why players, QBs and WRs, talk about timing and "knowing" each other. A long arc to Thornton and Meyers has to be released at different times (Thornton earlier, Meyers later).

 

[BTTA]

I am losing my faith in Greg Bedard's objectivity. Clearly he is reporting WITH an agenda. He hates the offensive coaching lineup and makes no bones about it and every individual play that creates a narrative that supports his bias will be played up big, and every play that takes it into a positive light will be minimized or simply ignored.

I was an early subscriber to his site, and am SO disappointed that this is the direction the football coverage has gone in. It's like he just waved a flag and joined sports radio. The cheap thrills of misery and complaint.

The contrast with the coverage of the other sports, especially the Celtics, is so glaring that its clear they don't have an intentionally crafted editorial voice but instead are just a handful of independent actors. Big opportunity lost.

 

[BTTA]

Knowing the name of the plays is not important to other teams? Ok

It really isn't, no. They all know each others' playbooks pretty well. The art is in how they disguise stuff for each opponent, from one week to the next.

 

[BTTA]

Yep and there were reports Uche went from 245ish to 230ish.

For a 245 lb. athlete who was already in top shape to drop 15 pounds of fat in a year is staggering. He'd have post Tour de France body fat.

 

[Zuma]

It really isn't, no. They all know each others' playbooks pretty well. The art is in how they disguise stuff for each opponent, from one week to the next.

I'm starting to think each team should give the other team a copy of there playbook before game.

 

[PowerRunRevival]

I was reading about how difficult it is to make the outside zone blocking scheme click, by even guys that grew up in systems that use it. A lot of attention to detail and timing. This report isn't surprising, it'll take time.

Can someone explain to me what the benefit of going to a zone blocking scheme is? Do RPOs work better with a zone blocking scheme (I expect they want to add RPOs to the offense because Mac was so good at them in college)? Is a zone blocking scheme better for outside runs? Or spreading the defense out? I would love someone who knows more about X's and O's than I do to explain the schematic benefit.

 

[venecol]

A high arc is easier to catch and therefore a "better" or preferred ball. No need to lower the arc. If the ball is late Mac needs to release a split second earlier. That is why players, QBs and WRs, talk about timing and "knowing" each other. A long arc to Thornton and Meyers has to be released at different times (Thornton earlier, Meyers later).

It also makes it more likely for a DB to pbu or int though, as we saw in the playoffs.

 

[SlowGettingUp]

Can someone explain to me what the benefit of going to a zone blocking scheme is

This is a good review showing just how different the blocking schemes are from what the OL here is used to. Note the comment that the scheme works well with play action and bootlegs. Note also that despite the name, most runs still happen up the middle of the field - the defenders get stretched horizontally, which opens up holes in the middle.

Football 101: Outside Zone - Weekly Spiral

Outside zone is a versatile run play that forces defenses to play disciplined while also respecting the threat getting to the outside.

weeklyspiral.com

 

[Wozzy]

Can someone explain to me what the benefit of going to a zone blocking scheme is? Do RPOs work better with a zone blocking scheme (I expect they want to add RPOs to the offense because Mac was so good at them in college)? Is a zone blocking scheme better for outside runs? Or spreading the defense out? I would love someone who knows more about X's and O's than I do to explain the schematic benefit.

The biggest reason is faster pace on offense, teams run more no-huddle and it requires less time to set up and run. The whole league is using more zone blocking... that being said the Pat's have used zone blocking going back to the earliest part of the 2000's or before even, it's not new... it's just being used more.

 

[A Defiant Goose]

For a 245 lb. athlete who was already in top shape to drop 15 pounds of fat in a year is staggering. He'd have post Tour de France body fat.

If he was 245lbs and roughly 15% body fat that's 37 lbs of fat. if he lost 15 lbs of pure fat that puts him at less than 10% which is approaching bodybuilder territory. There was probably a bit of muscle lost OR he might've been at a higher BF% than 15 when he was at 245lbs, which is my guess tbh

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

It also makes it more likely for a DB to pbu or int though, as we saw in the playoffs.

Agreed that is why Mac wants to throw a high arc over the top and only if there is not a safety waiting. Also the high arc has to be timed so it does not come up short for a DB or safety to intercept. If Mac's ball in the playoffs led Agholor, the safety would not have been able to intercept it from his Cover 1 position. The high arc is preferred, but it has to be thrown properly (leading the receiver), not short so the reciever has to wait as you noted in your review. I think Mac will see this and correct. It is a challenge to lead Thornton and Henry by the same amount when both are running at much different speeds.

 

[n6249c]

For a 245 lb. athlete who was already in top shape to drop 15 pounds of fat in a year is staggering. He'd have post Tour de France body fat.

Who said he dropped fat? Could drop muscle mass, right?