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Patriots Training Camp - Monday August 1st

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upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
According to Bedard, some amount of sloppiness, some amount of defense knowing what was coming, some amount of new scheme, and some defensive players simply beating the O-line - Strange had some tough reps. They were better with their more traditional run scheme.

If I have a big concern this year, it's this. We tried this scheme the first time Dante retired and it was a disaster. Patricia has more experience with it from his Detroit days. I'm not sure that's a good thing. It's harder for me to say BB knows what he's doing when we implemented this scheme in the 2013 season and Brady almost got killed. That was the year that Wes Welker hip-checked Aqib Talib coming across the middle.
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
If Montgomery makes the 53...I'd like to see him return kicks instead of Dugger or Rham. He's returned 57 in his career with 1 fumble with 22 yd average. I prefer RB's to return kicks and WR/CB return punts.
I hope Marcus Jones can do both, he's explosive, but they're not just going to hand it to him.
 

Zuma

BB Krishna
PatsFans.com Supporter
I hope Marcus Jones can do both, he's explosive, but they're not just going to hand it to him.
Yeah I did an edit and added Marcus before you posted. I think Marcus would work as well....as long as he isn't a starter on D....which he probably won't be.
 

LFGMac10

In the Starting Line-Up
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
What really stood out here was Reiss saying Thornton wasn't just impressing with his straightline speed but also with his ball skills and his ability to change direction! That is huge. So many pure speed guys are one-dimensional and therefore not all that useful. But if you've got a speed guy who can also stop on a dime and change direction- then you really got something. Opens up the whole route tree. A guy like that is a weapon.
Fingers crossed Thornton is the guy that breaks the WR drafting curse
 

Ross12

Moderator
Staff member
PatsFans.com Supporter
I find it interesting that Montgomery looks so good in camp so far. I always thought he was a decent player but didn’t expect a lot from him in NE and felt like he was just White insurance, since they also re-signed White. But White has lingering injury concerns and Montgomery has seized the opportunity.
 

jimnance

In the Starting Line-Up
My biggest questions with him are route running/making everything look through same, being able to contribute on all areas of the field. Going against bigger stronger CB outside by himself. And going from Baylor to NEP offense.

I like his movements though. We'll see what happens but this is from draft night.

Multi sport athlete in HS. Track background, legit burner that can fly. From Florida

Big time speed with different gears. Different type of speed that makes DB think. Most impressive attribute I noticed here was his body control and balance. He can shift, turn and move without losing any mph. Big time blazer. Not the quickest it takes a second to hit top gear but he's got legit high 4.2, low 4.3 speed.

No problems getting out his breaks but he has to get stronger he's tiny. Plus stop & start ability though. Fluid athlete with good COD. Again plus balance and body control.

Fiesty, tough blocker, plus stalk blocker. Very good tracking ability, remains calm and poised throughout this phase and can make a play in a the air now & then but again he's smaller at 180.

Good hands but could get stronger at catch point. They're small so he has to get stronger there. You can see it effect deep shots in close quarters at times.

Underutilized on offense and could be a deep threat from the slot as well as on in-breaking routes. Used primarily as a vertical threat. He could definitely handle more on his plate. Natural ST/gunner, day one. Good spacial and field awareness, he's alert and ready all times.

He has to add more details in his route running though. Head/body fakes, working off leverage, changing up his tempo, stacking defenders. Route running needs some work for sure. Wasn't exposed to a full tree and might not at this level bc of his size. He absolutely knows what to do, natural separation but he has to make the routes his own. A lot of this comes with experience.

I had a high 4th on him. Again surprised where we took not necessarily the prospect.
Yeah kids got big potential. Obviously he needs to add a little more muscle. He will.
He'll mostly be no more than the #3 wr option behind Bourne and Parker. Maybe #5. Not to mention Henry/Smith and the rbs who will get a fair share of passes.
But his ceiling is higher than I thought.
He could be serious by next year
 

jimnance

In the Starting Line-Up
Just hitting the breaks a bit here — those were not Reiss‘s observations, but rather what Ross Douglas (one of the WR coaches) relayed to him. Douglas was saying that they were impressed with his ball skills and change of direction skills. Douglas didn’t have to say that, of course, but I’m hoping this reflects the truth rather than the coaches pumping a guy up to the media.
@BGC just posted a pre-draft analysis by someone and they said the same thing. Somehow I missed this when I was reading up on him. Having change of direction ability by a speedster is huge and not all that common. Changes my perception of him. Again,he's a rookie and it takes a few years to develop all this on the nfl level. But he's got potential
 

jimnance

In the Starting Line-Up
I find it interesting that Montgomery looks so good in camp so far. I always thought he was a decent player but didn’t expect a lot from him in NE and felt like he was just White insurance, since they also re-signed White. But White has lingering injury concerns and Montgomery has seized the opportunity.
3rd down back will be interesting. Assuming White's out a good part of season, you've got Strong(assuming he gets healthy,Montgomery and the most important one,Stevenson.
He dropped some pounds and worked all off-season on route-running and catching footballs.
Having Rham stay on field on 3rd downs is the ideal scenario since it keeps the D guessing. With the others D is pretty sure a pass. With Rham they don't know. Run? Pass? Then if the Pats sometimes run and sometimes pass with him on 3rd,now the D is really guessing. Especially if he was successful with both.
But Montgomery playing well only helps. It's good to have options. Injuries happen
 

Kasmir

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Having change of direction ability by a speedster is huge and not all that common. Changes my perception of him. Again,he's a rookie and it takes a few years to develop all this on the nfl level. But he's got potential
The fact that he was 4/4 in the red zone drills from the 10 yard liner last week indicates that he has short area acceleration as well as speed.
 

SlowGettingUp

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
The fact that he was 4/4 in the red zone drills from the 10 yard liner last week indicates that he has short area acceleration as well as speed.

Didn't show up in his 3-cone time though (7.25). But maybe that's a body-type thing - Randy Moss wasn't that much better (7.19). And maybe 3-cones aren't a good measure other than for slot receivers - many fewer even attempt it these days:


And here's one famously slow 3-cone:

 

jimnance

In the Starting Line-Up
The fact that he was 4/4 in the red zone drills from the 10 yard liner last week indicates that he has short area acceleration as well as speed.
Not necessarily. Depends upon the routes. I didn't watch video of any of his catches so I don't know what routes he was running.
If it was a jumpball( he's excellent at those,is 6'2" and has hops) or a back shoulder fade, no short area quickness involved.
But JE11 scored a lot of rz tds using his quickness, it wasn't always Gronk.
If he's capable of both that makes him an even better rz threat. Throw in Parker, Henry and a (hopefully)improved Jonnu,plus Stevenson and Pats rz should be much better than it was last year.
 

TheRainMaker

Voted most handsome by my mother
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Mike Reiss points out my biggest gripe with Uche and why he's been struggling with the pass rush. He has a nice get off, but Tackles seem to recover and end up shoving him out of the play. Tackles then catch on to his only move and Uche becomes ineffective. He needs to develop more rush moves. He looks like a carbon copy of Chase Winovich.

Although I don't want to hear Strange struggling, he shouldn't feel too bad getting beat by the team's best interior rusher (Barmore). It's also only his first day.

I like what I'm hearing about Thornton.
 
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Jim Beankie

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Big time speed with different gears. Different type of speed that makes DB think. Most impressive attribute I noticed here was his body control and balance. He can shift, turn and move without losing any mph. Big time blazer. Not the quickest it takes a second to hit top gear but he's got legit high 4.2, low 4.3 speed.

No problems getting out his breaks but he has to get stronger he's tiny. Plus stop & start ability though. Fluid athlete with good COD. Again plus balance and body control.
I had mentioned this in your PTP WR 2022 after the Combine, but TT's 10m split, 1.41, I believe is the 2nd fastest of all time to Chris Johnson's 1.40. Please stay healthy.
 

Kasmir

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Didn't show up in his 3-cone time though (7.25). But maybe that's a body-type thing - Randy Moss wasn't that much better (7.19). And maybe 3-cones aren't a good measure other than for slot receivers - many fewer even attempt it these days:


And here's one famously slow 3-cone:

Was talking about his acceleration. He had a 1.41s 10 yard split in his 40 which is off the charts great, one of the fastest -- if not the fastest -- ever measured.

Breaking 1.5s is incredibly rare. Usain Bolt had a 1.49s 10 yard. DK Metcalf was 1.48s. Tyreek Hill was 1.5s. Randy Moss was 1.52. Deon Sanders was 1.52.

Tyquan may have the fastest acceleration off the line ever measured.

So yeah, if unjammed he's going to be going faster than any human in the red zone.
 
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BaconGrundleCandy

#1 Mac Jones fan
PatsFans.com Supporter
Yeah kids got big potential. Obviously he needs to add a little more muscle. He will.
He'll mostly be no more than the #3 wr option behind Bourne and Parker. Maybe #5. Not to mention Henry/Smith and the rbs who will get a fair share of passes.
But his ceiling is higher than I thought.
He could be serious by next year
Hoping he finds work immediately as our motion guy as that'll keep him busy, involved and give him something to really focus on and dig into. Very interested in this pick for so many reasons.
I had mentioned this in your PTP WR 2022 after the Combine, but TT's 10m split, 1.41, I believe is the 2nd fastest of all time to Chris Johnson's 1.40. Please stay healthy.
Yup. Appreciate your thoughts and insights on speed Jim. Very useful.
 

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