PATRIOTS NEWS Patriots Rookie Minicamp Thread

[Wozzy]

Featherweight? He is the third heaviest tackle in the list of elite left tackles I posted, and his agility drill numbers are in the median range for those tackles. His 40 time (single most important measurable for OTs) and both jumps are near the top.

Not sure I'd qualify all those guys as "elite" and many of them had a learning curve early on. David Bakthiari for example was pushed into starting when Bryan Bulaga got injured in camp and while he started all 16 games that season there were some serious struggles. He worked on his strength for the next season and came back much heavier and stronger... which I already said was a possibility for Wallace.

Why is 40 time the single most important measurable for OT's... since when?

 

[Fuzz]

Not sure I'd qualify all those guys as "elite" and many of them had a learning curve early on. David Bakthiari for example was pushed into starting when Bryan Bulaga got injured in camp and while he started all 16 games that season there were some serious struggles. He worked on his strength for the next season and came back much heavier and stronger... which I already said was a possibility for Wallace.

Why is 40 time the single most important measurable for OT's... since when?

Theyre all considered high end left tackles in the league. The only athletic freaks I can think of that are good are Trent Williams, Tristan Wirfs, Kolton Miller & Rashawn Slater.

40 time has always been looked at as especially important for draft stock for OTs. Here are a couple of articles that go into depth as to why:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...important-combine-event-for-each-nfl-position
https://unexpectedpoints.substack.com/p/scouting-combine-drills-that-matter-674

 

[Wozzy]

Theyre all considered high end left tackles in the league. The only athletic freaks I can think of that are good are Trent Williams, Tristan Wirfs, Kolton Miller & Rashawn Slater.

40 time has always been looked at as especially important for draft stock for OTs. Here are a couple of articles that go into depth as to why:
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...important-combine-event-for-each-nfl-position
https://unexpectedpoints.substack.com/p/scouting-combine-drills-that-matter-674

I think a lot of RAS charts are skewed for one simple reason, some guys running or putting up these great measurables are substantially bigger or stronger and we're judging them all as if they weigh the same or are similarly strong.

Like I've said already, I give Wallace a mostly incomplete grade for not lifting, he also has the worst agility of all the guys you mentioned... and he didn't feel the need to try again or bench at his pro day.

Patrick Paul
6-8 331
5.13 forty
29.0 vertical
30 bench
7.65 cone
4.71 shuttle
86 ¼ wingspan 36 ¼ arms

Kingsley Suamataia
6-5 332
5.04 forty
28.0 vertical
31 bench
0.00 cone
0.00 shuttle
82 1/8 wingspan 34 1/4 arms

Caedan Wallace
6-5 314
5.15 forty
31.0 vertical
No bench
7.73 cone
4.96 shuttle
82 5/8 wingspan 34 arms

Kolton Miller
6-9 309
4.91 forty
31.5 vertical
24 bench
7.34 cone
4.49 shuttle
82 1/2 wingspan 34 1/8 arms

Trent Williams
6-5 315
4.88 forty
34.5 vertical
23 bench
7.45 cone
4.51 shuttle
34 ¼ arms

Rashawn Slater
6-4 304
4.91 forty
33.0 vertical
33 bench
7.48 cone
4.45 shuttle
80 1/8 wingspan 33 arms

Nate Solder
6-8 319
5.05 forty
32.0 vertical
21 bench
7.44 cone
4.34 shuttle
35.5 arms

I don't think forty times are significantly more important than other measurables, but more importantly I don't think a good forty time makes bad measurables disappear or irrelevant. Patrick Paul and Kingsley above look a lot more like the "athletic freaks" you mention above, plus Paul at least (my preference) gave a complete workout. Your article also states the importance of arm length, nobody's arms above come close to Paul in terms of length... he is a freak. Both of those guys are also strong, which in my estimation means more for year one success than other measurables.

The bigger question here is JaLynn Polk considered a freak, which is what you're trying to find in the second round... I don't see it. Not when they drafted a similar guy in the 4th round. I don't dislike the Wallace pick, I see his potential and also assume I could be wrong about him. I've been wrong in the past.

 

[Zuma]

I think a lot of RAS charts are skewed for one simple reason, some guys running or putting up these great measurables are substantially bigger or stronger and we're judging them all as if they weigh the same or are similarly strong.

Like I've said already, I give Wallace a mostly incomplete grade for not lifting, he also has the worst agility of all the guys you mentioned... and he didn't feel the need to try again or bench at his pro day.

Patrick Paul
6-8 331
5.13 forty
29.0 vertical
30 bench
7.65 cone
4.71 shuttle
86 ¼ wingspan 36 ¼ arms

Kingsley Suamataia
6-5 332
5.04 forty
28.0 vertical
31 bench
0.00 cone
0.00 shuttle
82 1/8 wingspan 34 1/4 arms

Caedan Wallace
6-5 314
5.15 forty
31.0 vertical
No bench
7.73 cone
4.96 shuttle
82 5/8 wingspan 34 arms

Kolton Miller
6-9 309
4.91 forty
31.5 vertical
24 bench
7.34 cone
4.49 shuttle
82 1/2 wingspan 34 1/8 arms

Trent Williams
6-5 315
4.88 forty
34.5 vertical
23 bench
7.45 cone
4.51 shuttle
34 ¼ arms

Rashawn Slater
6-4 304
4.91 forty
33.0 vertical
33 bench
7.48 cone
4.45 shuttle
80 1/8 wingspan 33 arms

Nate Solder
6-8 319
5.05 forty
32.0 vertical
21 bench
7.44 cone
4.34 shuttle
35.5 arms

I don't think forty times are significantly more important than other measurables, but more importantly I don't think a good forty time makes bad measurables disappear or irrelevant. Patrick Paul and Kingsley above look a lot more like the "athletic freaks" you mention above, plus Paul at least (my preference) gave a complete workout. Your article also states the importance of arm length, nobodies arms above come close to Paul in length... he is a freak. Both of those guys are also strong, which in my estimation means more for year one success than other measurables.

The bigger question here is JaLynn Polk considered a freak, that's what you're trying to find in the second round... I don't see it. Not when they drafted a similar guy in the 4th round. I don't dislike the Wallace pick, I see his potential and also assume I could be wrong about him. I've been wrong in the past.

Another incomplete…

Kingsley Suamataia
6-5 332
5.04 forty
28.0 vertical
31 bench
0.00 cone
0.00 shuttle
82 1/8 wingspan 34 1/4 arms

 

[Wozzy]

Another incomplete…

Kingsley Suamataia
6-5 332
5.04 forty
28.0 vertical
31 bench
0.00 cone
0.00 shuttle
82 1/8 wingspan 34 1/4 arms

Agreed, but look at his strength... the guy is Conan strong. He also ran a faster forty at 17 pounds heavier than Wallace. Incomplete is better than bad, and Wallace's agility drills were bad.

Paul was my first choice in the second round, Kingsley my second... but mostly I wanted a starting left tackle above all else.

If Wallace becomes that, the collaboration station have earned my undying respect.

 

[Zuma]

Agreed, but look at his strength... the guy is Conan strong. He also ran a faster forty at 17 pounds heavier than Wallace. Incomplete is better than bad, and Wallace's agility drills were bad.

Paul was my first choice in the second round, Kingsley my second... but mostly I wanted a starting left tackle above all else.

If Wallace becomes that, the collaboration station have earned my undying respect.

You are cherry picking between Bad and Incomplete to suite your argument. Why not wait and see how he does so you won’t look Bad or Incomplete if he plays well.

 

[Fuzz]

I think a lot of RAS charts are skewed for one simple reason, some guys running or putting up these great measurables are substantially bigger or stronger and we're judging them all as if they weigh the same or are similarly strong.

Like I've said already, I give Wallace a mostly incomplete grade for not lifting, he also has the worst agility of all the guys you mentioned... and he didn't feel the need to try again or bench at his pro day.

Patrick Paul
6-8 331
5.13 forty
29.0 vertical
30 bench
7.65 cone
4.71 shuttle
86 ¼ wingspan 36 ¼ arms

Kingsley Suamataia
6-5 332
5.04 forty
28.0 vertical
31 bench
0.00 cone
0.00 shuttle
82 1/8 wingspan 34 1/4 arms

Caedan Wallace
6-5 314
5.15 forty
31.0 vertical
No bench
7.73 cone
4.96 shuttle
82 5/8 wingspan 34 arms

Kolton Miller
6-9 309
4.91 forty
31.5 vertical
24 bench
7.34 cone
4.49 shuttle
82 1/2 wingspan 34 1/8 arms

Trent Williams
6-5 315
4.88 forty
34.5 vertical
23 bench
7.45 cone
4.51 shuttle
34 ¼ arms

Rashawn Slater
6-4 304
4.91 forty
33.0 vertical
33 bench
7.48 cone
4.45 shuttle
80 1/8 wingspan 33 arms

Nate Solder
6-8 319
5.05 forty
32.0 vertical
21 bench
7.44 cone
4.34 shuttle
35.5 arms

I don't think forty times are significantly more important than other measurables, but more importantly I don't think a good forty time makes bad measurables disappear or irrelevant. Patrick Paul and Kingsley above look a lot more like the "athletic freaks" you mention above, plus Paul at least (my preference) gave a complete workout. Your article also states the importance of arm length, nobody's arms above come close to Paul in terms of length... he is a freak. Both of those guys are also strong, which in my estimation means more for year one success than other measurables.

The bigger question here is JaLynn Polk considered a freak, which is what you're trying to find in the second round... I don't see it. Not when they drafted a similar guy in the 4th round. I don't dislike the Wallace pick, I see his potential and also assume I could be wrong about him. I've been wrong in the past.

Wallace's shuttle was 4.78, not 4.96. Maybe thats why you think he had poor agility numbers.

I dont think you're necessarily looking for freaks in the second round. They picked JaLynn Polk because they think he is dependable and willing and able to do the dirty work in the middle of the field. As long as he does that, he'll be well worth the pick.

 

[VJCPatriot]

I think a lot of RAS charts are skewed for one simple reason, some guys running or putting up these great measurables are substantially bigger or stronger and we're judging them all as if they weigh the same or are similarly strong.

Like I've said already, I give Wallace a mostly incomplete grade for not lifting, he also has the worst agility of all the guys you mentioned... and he didn't feel the need to try again or bench at his pro day.

Patrick Paul
6-8 331
5.13 forty
29.0 vertical
30 bench
7.65 cone
4.71 shuttle
86 ¼ wingspan 36 ¼ arms

Kingsley Suamataia
6-5 332
5.04 forty
28.0 vertical
31 bench
0.00 cone
0.00 shuttle
82 1/8 wingspan 34 1/4 arms

Caedan Wallace
6-5 314
5.15 forty
31.0 vertical
No bench
7.73 cone
4.96 shuttle
82 5/8 wingspan 34 arms

Kolton Miller
6-9 309
4.91 forty
31.5 vertical
24 bench
7.34 cone
4.49 shuttle
82 1/2 wingspan 34 1/8 arms

Trent Williams
6-5 315
4.88 forty
34.5 vertical
23 bench
7.45 cone
4.51 shuttle
34 ¼ arms

Rashawn Slater
6-4 304
4.91 forty
33.0 vertical
33 bench
7.48 cone
4.45 shuttle
80 1/8 wingspan 33 arms

Nate Solder
6-8 319
5.05 forty
32.0 vertical
21 bench
7.44 cone
4.34 shuttle
35.5 arms

I don't think forty times are significantly more important than other measurables, but more importantly I don't think a good forty time makes bad measurables disappear or irrelevant. Patrick Paul and Kingsley above look a lot more like the "athletic freaks" you mention above, plus Paul at least (my preference) gave a complete workout. Your article also states the importance of arm length, nobody's arms above come close to Paul in terms of length... he is a freak. Both of those guys are also strong, which in my estimation means more for year one success than other measurables.

The bigger question here is JaLynn Polk considered a freak, which is what you're trying to find in the second round... I don't see it. Not when they drafted a similar guy in the 4th round. I don't dislike the Wallace pick, I see his potential and also assume I could be wrong about him. I've been wrong in the past.

Patrick Paul gives some Nate Solder vibes with his size and length. Wish we had moved up to draft him. He went at #55 to the Phish.

 

[captain stone]

Why is Reagor better than Bolden as a kick return option?

Because Reagor sucks less at his regular position than Bolden does at his.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

You've been the biggest critic here since BB left questioning every move seems like you are hoping Mayo and Wolf fail. Newsflash BB ain't coming through that door get over it.

It has nothing to do with BB. A lot of posters want immediate satisfaction, like forcing a draft pick for a position of need, and I would prefer to make the right move with the long term in mind. I like Maye, he has a lot of upside and seems to be a great guy, but we had a great opportunity in R2 and R3 and forced the picks. You liked our FA approach signing no outside high level FAs?

Newflash - we need play makers. We made no real effort to sign any top FAs and forced our draft picks to be the best available WR or OT, no the best player available. What play makers have we added in 2024?

 

[Wozzy]

You are cherry picking between Bad and Incomplete to suite your argument. Why not wait and see how he does so you won’t look Bad or Incomplete if he plays well.

There's nothing else to talk about now, so we rehash the draft to death... that's just the way it is. And no, I'm not cherry picking if I said Wallace got an incomplete grade for the tests he did not take and since I said he could be much stronger and better than I know because of it.

 

[Wozzy]

Wallace's shuttle was 4.78, not 4.96. Maybe thats why you think he had poor agility numbers.

Wrong

2024 Draft Scout Caedan Wallace - OT - Penn State

2024 Draft Scout Caedan Wallace - OT - Penn State

draftscout.com

I dont think you're necessarily looking for freaks in the second round. They picked JaLynn Polk because they think he is dependable and willing and able to do the dirty work in the middle of the field. As long as he does that, he'll be well worth the pick.

You're looking for first round value in the second round. I'm not sure Polk is a first round WR, I could be wrong. He only gave a partial workout and the measurables he did test for were pretty good, he has good size and college production. I think Patrick Paul had a closer to first round grade and was a bigger position of need. We'll see...

 

[Wozzy]

Patrick Paul gives some Nate Solder vibes with his size and length. Wish we had moved up to draft him. He went at #55 to the Phish.

Agreed, I think there was good value to be found there because he was a smaller school guy (Houston). He went to the Senior Bowl and showed he totally belonged.

 

[Zuma]

 

[Fuzz]

Wrong

2024 Draft Scout Caedan Wallace - OT - Penn State

2024 Draft Scout Caedan Wallace - OT - Penn State

draftscout.com

You're looking for first round value in the second round. I'm not sure Polk is a first round WR, I could be wrong. He only gave a partial workout and the measurables he did test for were pretty good and he has good size and college production. I think Patrick Paul had a closer to first round grade and was a bigger position of need. We'll see...

No, youre wrong. These are the official pro-day results from the Penn State website:

2024 NFL Pro Day Central

2024 NFL Pro Day Central

gopsusports.com

He didnt do the shuttle in the combine, so not sure where your number is from. "First round value in the second round" is an oxymoron. If youre talking about boom/bust sort of prospects, the Pats already took a bunch of those in the draft. Polk was their safe, dependable pick.

 

[Wozzy]

No, youre wrong. These are the official pro-day results from the Penn State website:

2024 NFL Pro Day Central

2024 NFL Pro Day Central

gopsusports.com

He didnt do the shuttle in the combine, so not sure where your number is from. "First round value in the second round" is an oxymoron. If youre talking about boom/bust sort of prospects, the Pats already took a bunch of those in the draft. Polk was their safe, dependable pick.

I trust Draftscout over some Penn State fanzine or school site any day, they've been doing this for decades.

You can't even trust schools to give you the proper height or weight on players, they list them at 6'5" on their webpage then they go to the combine and measure 6'2." Schools lie...

 

[Zuma]

 

[Fuzz]

I trust Draftscout over some Penn State fanzine or school site any day, they've been doing this for decades.

You can't even trust schools to give you the proper height or weight on players, they list them at 6'5" on their webpage then they go to the combine and measure 6'2." Schools lie...

I can tell theyve been doing this for decades, because their site looks like its from 1998. I've never heard of them.

I hear you on Pro-Day numbers, but they're the next best thing to combine numbers. Wallace (along with most of the other tackles) didnt do the shuttle in the combine, so thats all we have to go on.

 

[patsinthesnow]

Riddick’s been early on alot of rookie breakouts btw

 

[Ross12]

Is there actually any rule preventing him from putting himself on the active roster in an emergency situation? I know it wouldn’t happen but I’m curious if it’s actually banned in any capacity. Dude can 100% still play in an emergency.