Patriots new OC - Alex Van Pelt

[upstater1]

Looks like Kraft was in fact the one thinking long term.. wich led to a mutual parting of ways. I agree about the defense, however the most important position in football was just utterly botched and mismanaged.

Long term is a rebuild. Where did Belichick cut corners? Taking a CB in the 1st when you more desperately need a QB, LT and WR is an example of long term thinking.

 

[PatsFan2]

I don't think we should assume Troy Brown is back. I feel like he was very much a Belichick hire, and Van Pelt should have say in who's under him (which is something they reportedly did not do for O'Brien). I'm sure Mayo respects Brown as a man and a player, but he doesn't owe him a job. They just hired the OC yesterday, the other dominos will start to fall now.

IF T Brown was behind the Pop Douglas find we can't get rid of him.

 

[festy1986]

Are you talking about the Browns? They won 7 more games than the Pats last year and made the playoffs. And they did it with their 2nd, 3rd, 4th and possibly 5th QBs.

The Browns under achieved. The Patriots did not.

We'll all get a chance to predict the 204 win total in next year's poll. This past year we were all way over. I wasn't very confident but still predicted 8 wins.

Well that's because you're too optimistic. I would not have predicted anything more than five wins.

The Patriots didn't even address their offensive problems and rely on juju O'Brien to somehow manage this team was laughable at best.

Without knowing who they're getting in free agency it's hard to guess but giving all the changes I wouldn't expect more than five wins again.

 

[Real fan 02]

In fairness even though I’m not a fan of Fields’ game I’d take a flyer on him for a 5th. I just don’t think that’s going to be enough for the Bears. For that return they may as well keep him for the last year of his rookie contract as a backup. QB needy teams would have to give up more than that, and I’d rather see the Pats use their draft picks on fresh new rookie contracts rather than guys on expiring deals.

Yes of course, I agree with that. I'm just talking strictly on the "idea" of going after him. We need to understand that what we have currently at QB is trash. I'm in no way proclaiming fileds is the savior , however posters are going in a bit much referring to him as trash.. that is a bit harsh.

 

[Sicilian]

IF T Brown was behind the Pop Douglas find we can't get rid of him.

Where did we hear that? Also, Pop had a great season (by Patriot rookie standards), but numerous people have pointed out his route running still needs a lot of work. I'm not sure being naturally shifty is a good indication that Brown coached him up.

Also, it doesn't matter how well Brown coached a player in the EP system, if we need to start teaching wide receivers the WC offense.

 

[PatsFan2]

Most of us are defending the move to Van Pelt, a couple aren't. I note many voices who wanted BB out are veryu much against this move. I don't think there is nearly the flip you describe.

What elite guard are you talking about? Is it Mason? Mason filled in at LG badly. Onwenu was also bad at LG. Onwenu was Mason's replacement. Please don't tell me you consider Karras an elite guard. Lastly, if it's Thuney you're referring to, we're going all the way back to 2020?

Patricia hasn't coached the Patriots defense since 2016 when they were the #1 defense in the NFL so his stamp on the defense is irrelevant. The defense was obviously Belichick's expertise, and it played like it.

McDaniels, as big a failure as he was as a HC, was always a good OC -- certainly more accomplished than Van Pelt -- and that's why he got 3 different offers to become an HC.

You never cease to amaze.

 

[Real fan 02]

Long term is a rebuild. Where did Belichick cut corners? Taking a CB in the 1st when you more desperately need a QB, LT and WR is an example of long term thinking.

At that moment in time.. the thought was with o'Brien at OC, Mac would be fixed.. boy was everyone wrong. I felt good about gonzo, he was on his way to all pro before he got hurt. Great pick by bill.. or was that pick Kraft?

 

[upstater1]

I don't think we should assume Troy Brown is back. I feel like he was very much a Belichick hire, and Van Pelt should have say in who's under him (which is something they reportedly did not do for O'Brien). I'm sure Mayo respects Brown as a man and a player, but he doesn't owe him a job. They just hired the OC yesterday, the other dominos will start to fall now.

Troy Brown is, and always has been, extremely close to the Kraft family. This goes back to Myra.

 

[upstater1]

You never cease to amaze.

Thank you. My aim is to stay on top of the facts.

 

[upstater1]

At that moment in time.. the thought was with o'Brien at OC, Mac would be fixed.. boy was everyone wrong. I felt good about gonzo, he was on his way to all pro before he got hurt. Great pick by bill.. or was that pick Kraft?

SF cut bait with Lance, that's what Kraft refused to do with Mac... the Patriots would've been better off this year with Mayfield.

 

[Sicilian]

Troy Brown is, and always has been, extremely close to the Kraft family. This goes back to Myra.

And? So was Brady, and they let him walk. The Krafts have buddies but they're not going to force Mayo and Van Pelt to keep a WR coach they don't want because he's their friend.

 

[Real fan 02]

Troy Brown is, and always has been, extremely close to the Kraft family. This goes back to Myra.

Doing my research on van pelt after the sighing it was a good move by Mayo/wolf, he is experienced, good with QBs checks alot of boxes that you want in an OC, we knew the jobs wasn't exactly desirable. So I'm just happy to have someone as OC. Can't be anymore worse than the NAVY offense last season 32nd ranked.

 

[upstater1]

Here's some background on Van Pelt's firing and the new hire of Ken Dorsey in Cleveland:

Ken Dorsey’s philosophies and scheme match Kevin Stefanski’s, but is that what the Browns need? Film Review

Ken Dorsey as Browns offensive coordinator makes sense, but also comes with a couple concerns.

www.cleveland.com

Seems like the Browns really have no clue what they want, there's mass confusion, and despite the calls from several posters to hire Dorsey as Belichick's replacement last year, I kept telling people that Dorsey was a failure who would soon be fired by the Bills. It happened. He was hired in Cleveland. This article basically describes no background for Dorsey coaching wise, and also says he wants a power run game, with 11 personnel (which is what the Bills had), with a lot of play action.

Now, you might think this all sounds very familiar as a E-P style offense, especially since Dorsey learned under Daboll, who has always carried some of the Patriots DNA with him. In fact, the Bills and Josh Allen were most successful in 2021 when they basically adopted the Patriots offense wholesale.

BUT... Dorsey didn't run the Bills offense the way that Daboll did. He started looking downfield way too much off play action. They hardly ever dumped the ball down anymore or used the screen game (both RB and WR). It was such a predictable offense. Joe Brady adopted more of Daboll's strategies and they had immediate success with Brady.

Now, it may be that there's been some study of the B'OB offense in Houston when Deshaun Watson had success, and they may be going back to that away from Van Pelt's West Coast stuff. Dorsey is a reasonable candidate for that kind of thing (but in actuality, he really sucks).

The smartest thing for the Browns would've been to hire josh McDaniels as their new OC; he's from Cleveland and is perhaps the person who has had the most success with the offense that Watson excelled at.

 

[upstater1]

And? So was Brady, and they let him walk. The Krafts have buddies but they're not going to force Mayo and Van Pelt to keep a WR coach they don't want because he's their friend.

I'm just pushing back on this idea that he's a Belichick loyalist.

 

[mike_usagisan]

I don't think we should assume Troy Brown is back. I feel like he was very much a Belichick hire, and Van Pelt should have say in who's under him (which is something they reportedly did not do for O'Brien). I'm sure Mayo respects Brown as a man and a player, but he doesn't owe him a job. They just hired the OC yesterday, the other dominos will start to fall now.

They could move him to a front office job. He'll always be a face of the franchise.

 

[Sicilian]

I'm just pushing back on this idea that he's a Belichick loyalist.

Fair enough. I'm probably just a bit twitchy because there's been a lot of (not from you I don't think) posts like, "X hasn't happened yet, therefore X will NEVER happen!" So when I saw the other poster say, "Well Troy Brown can't teach this system!" I wonder why we're assuming he's staying, just because he's technically still here less than 24 hours after getting a new OC. Again, not a response to you, just vomiting out of my brain at the moment.

 

[Sicilian]

They could move him to a front office job. He'll always be a face of the franchise.

For sure. He also could move back to being a ST assistant and work with the returners. They're going to need some leadership on that unit, given Springer is young and Slater is probably gone (though I'd love him to stick around the team in some capacity too).

 

[signbabybrady]

I like the posters who love Bill and are hoping the Pats fail.
Bill's team was 4-13 last year and Van Pelts' team was 11-6.
Bill's team missed the playoffs and Van Pelts' team made it.
Bill is too old and Van Pelt is younger.
Bill is out of a job and Van Pelt is employed.

I'm not sure who you think I am but I'm not some Bill vs Brady guy I love them both. I rooted for Tom in Tampa and I'm not going anywhere I will always be rooting for the Pats.

I already pulled my Mayo jersey to the front of the closet.

You on the other hand barely know who Alex Van Pelt is and are excited about him simply because he's not Bill. You are the foolish one here.

 

[Real fan 02]

SF cut bait with Lance, that's what Kraft refused to do with Mac... the Patriots would've been better off this year with Mayfield.

Still think they prematurely Gave up on Lance. The Patriots would have been better with a Foxborough high QB and coaching staff last season than what they had.

 

[Sicilian]

My overall take on Van Pelt now that some dust has settled: This offense is in a ROUGH state. Before free agency and re-signings, they need a starting QB and two OT, they have no TE's under contract, they have one proven RB and they need a talent infusion in the WR room. On top of that, they need to mend some schisms, sort out the locker room lawyers, and the head coach is a young, defensive guy.

When you break a leg, before you can start rebuilding your strength in it you have to splint it, put it in a cast, and let it heal. I think that's why they went with Van Pelt over a guy like Caley. You need someone with some experience, and it sounds like he's a good locker room guy as well. Heal the offense, get some of those holes filled, stop the bleeding. We couldn't go straight to fresh, innovation, young gun until that foundation is re-established.

Down the line, when you've got your QB and there's more talent on the roster, if the offense has stagnated, that's when you bring in the "next big thing" and shoot for the moon, IMO.