Patriots Hall of Fame 2008 nominees: Coates, Nance, Morris [mergedx2]

[RayClay]

Re: Patriots Hall Of Fame Nominees

You really cant go by the numbers alone. When Jim Nance did his things for the Pats they were badly in need of a superstar. Nance gave it to them, and his rivalries with Cookie Gilchrist of the Bills is a solid AFL story.

Also Nance had the Pats record for most yards in a season for about 30 years before Curtis Martin came along, I believe, and broke it, and then of course Corey Dillon.

That is a long time for a team record to hold up and I would guess that if the Pats had a team HOF before Martin broke the record, Nance would have been in it.

I would elect Antwine and Morris first. Nance had two great seasons, then was mediocre. By contrast, Antwine was a Pro Bowler before Nance and after he started to eat himself out of the league.

I really liked Nance too and I liked the Corey Dillon's three injury riddled years which aren't that much less than Nance's prime. His fourth best year was 593 yards with a 3.4 average.

Sorry, facts are facts. Buoniconti is an NFL Hall of Famer. Only one other Patriot is in the display of the All AFL Team in Canton and it isn't Nance or Morris (Or Hunt, or Dee, or Cappelletti, or Parilli).

From the 1971 Patriots media guide:

Seven-time AFL All-Star selection who capped great performances of the '60s with selection to the All-Time AFL All-League team ... "Twine" is especially devastating against the run ... was double and triple teamed throughout his career ... tremendous strength and balance ... was NAIA heavyweight wrestling champion ... Pats' defensive captain and player representative ... always a leader ... has played ten seasons with Patriots ... slowed as a rookie due to College All-Star Game injury ... started with Pats as offensive guard but switched to defense the same year ('61) ... Twine and Jim Hunt have played together longer than any pair of tackles in pro football ... named Pats MVP in poll of Foxboro fans last year

 

[PYPER]

Re: Patriots Hall of Fame - NOMINEES for this year

Morris is a good choice but maybe Nance this year. Coates will eventually get in but these old-timers are overdue.

I hate when political rationale gets injected in these matters. It's the "HALL OF FAME"....Only the best of the best should be inducted. Of these three players, which is the best one? That's the ONLY criteria that should be in play.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Patriots Hall Of Fame Nominees

In a couple of years, fans will be voting in guys with one great year, or mediocre players that just happened to be on great teams and Antwine will never get into the Patriots hall.

At least one fan will remember the Boston and New England Patriot who could make a case of having the best career of any New England defensive player.

Not good enough for the Patriots HOF though.

Funny thing is, he'll be in the actual Hall of Fame in Canton, making a mockery of our provincial little popularity contest we call a Hall of fame. LOL!

Oh well, at least the fans had the common sense not to vote the insurance salesman in.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Patriots Hall Of Fame Nominees

You really cant go by the numbers alone. When Jim Nance did his things for the Pats they were badly in need of a superstar. Nance gave it to them, and his rivalries with Cookie Gilchrist of the Bills is a solid AFL story.

Also Nance had the Pats record for most yards in a season for about 30 years before Curtis Martin came along, I believe, and broke it, and then of course Corey Dillon.

That is a long time for a team record to hold up and I would guess that if the Pats had a team HOF before Martin broke the record, Nance would have been in it.

The Patriots Hall of Fame was formed in the early 1990's, I believe.

 

[NoCal Patriot]

Re: Patriots Hall Of Fame Nominees

In a couple of years, fans will be voting in guys with one great year, or mediocre players that just happened to be on great teams and Antwine will never get into the Patriots hall.

At least one fan will remember the Boston and New England Patriot who could make a case of having the best career of any New England defensive player.

Not good enough for the Patriots HOF though.

Funny thing is, he'll be in the actual Hall of Fame in Canton, making a mockery of our provincial little popularity contest we call a Hall of fame. LOL!

Oh well, at least the fans had the common sense not to vote the insurance salesman in.

Ray,I think Houston Antwine should be in too but He wasn't nominated which is a travesty but I really think that all three guys were deserving.As for Jim Nance having two great seasons remember He played some of that time with the likes of Joe Kapp and Mike Taliferro as his quarterback.Everyone knew the patriots were going to run and no one feared their passing game.Besides Nance The Patriots biggest Offensive weapon was Gino Cappaletti and he was the place kicker.It's scary to remember some of the receivers back then from Ron Sellers to Eddie Hinton Remember,The Patriots were calling running backs out of the stands to play on Sundays( Think Bob Gladieux).That Jim Nance got any yards was simply amazing. His Patriot's record 45 rushing Touchdowns is reason enough for Jim to be in .No one has yet match that total,not Sam Bam,not Turbo Tony,not Corey Dillon,not Antowain Smith. Ray,I don't have to tell You how low thing got in the late 60's and early 70"s. Geting dressed at The Ramada Inn.Guys walking out minutes before games( John Charles and Larry Carwell) both starting Cornerbacks.It was a zoo and Jim Nance continued to play.

 

[Sean Pa Patriot]

Re: Patriots Hall Of Fame Nominees

I know none or I should say most never saw Antwine, but that is wierd he is not nominated this yr.. In the internet savy world, Coates will win in a landslide, but I voted for Nance, because he was a powerful runner for the Pats..

 

[JoeSixPat]

Re: Patriots Hall Of Fame Nominees

You really cant go by the numbers alone. When Jim Nance did his things for the Pats they were badly in need of a superstar. Nance gave it to them, and his rivalries with Cookie Gilchrist of the Bills is a solid AFL story.

Also Nance had the Pats record for most yards in a season for about 30 years before Curtis Martin came along, I believe, and broke it, and then of course Corey Dillon.

That is a long time for a team record to hold up and I would guess that if the Pats had a team HOF before Martin broke the record, Nance would have been in it.

Without an excellent OL with Morris at Center, does Jim Nance even have the stats that he does?

Morris should be the pick

 

[italian pat patriot]

Jim Nance,John Morris and Ben Coates are all locks for this honor and while I know that many of You aren't old enough to remember two of these guys,they were great players on poor teams and were often looked upon to speak on behalf of their team.
Jim Nance was a bruiser in the old AFL Days and even had a moment in the sun during the first year at Schaeffer Stadium.It was the last game of the opening season and it was a cold day against The hated Miami Dolphins.The patriots took the opening kickoff and behind Jim Plunkett and Jim Nance the Patriots drove the ball down the field against the vaunted Dolphin Defense and Jim Nance slammed it into the endzone which set the tone for the whole day .Bob Griese and Larry Cszonka could never get started and seemed to get colder as the day went on and The Dolphins were never in it.The patriots beat a very good team that day and made them look bad in doing it.We had a little hope which then was rare and it was a great day at the Stadium.
John Morris ,a Holy Cross Guy ,and a 10 year rock at center.He was steady aand set the tone.He only lost his job to Bill Lenkitis when He was injured.He was a great player on some bad teams.Just a very solid guy.
Ben Coates as simply great.I don't think the Patriots have ever had a better pass catching Tight end than Ben Coates.
I say put them all in ! They all deserve their place!

i always love yr posts !

i had the pleasure to 'see' playing only Ben Coats and he was, imho, great but i have heard all the best about Jim Nance

honestly i do not know so much about Morris

 

[FirstAndGoal]

Re: Patriots Hall of Fame - NOMINEES for this year

I hate when political rationale gets injected in these matters. It's the "HALL OF FAME"....Only the best of the best should be inducted. Of these three players, which is the best one? That's the ONLY criteria that should be in play.

Most people never saw these guys play. In fact, unless you went to the games back then, most people in MA didn't see them play. Politics has nothing to do with it. How can someone who never saw them play vote? Does a stat sheet say everything? They were great Patriots. How many people on this board have seen them play? Are you old enough to have seen them play and did you go to the games? If not, I assume you won't be voting? Even if you were one of the few, do you think they should be voting? My point being, how do you even know who was the best if you never saw them play so how is "best" determined?

 

[NoCal Patriot]

i always love yr posts !

i had the pleasure to 'see' playing only Ben Coats and he was, imho, great but i have heard all the best about Jim Nance

honestly i do not know so much about Morris

Good Morning My Friend.Ben Coates will certainly get in but I suggest to You that You go over to Patriots.com and vote for Jim Nance.He is well deserving.

 

[italian pat patriot]

Good Morning My Friend.Ben Coates will certainly get in but I suggest to You that You go over to Patriots.com and vote for Jim Nance.He is well deserving.

i will follow Yr suggestion

buon pomeriggio (here is allready 3,25 pm)

ciao

 

[PATSNUTme]

i will follow Yr suggestion

buon pomeriggio (here is allready 3,25 pm)

ciao

Hey, do you know that Shmessy is now in your fine country. You may want to lock your windows and doors and hide the women.

 

[italian pat patriot]

Hey, do you know that Shmessy is now in your fine country. You may want to lock your windows and doors and hide the women.

no i was not informed...do you know where he is in Italy ?

weather is fine in Central - South Italy

 

[NoCal Patriot]

i will follow Yr suggestion

buon pomeriggio (here is allready 3,25 pm)

ciao

Thank You my friend! It's is OK with Me if You raise a glass and toast Our Patriots to celebrate their long glorious and inglorious history.

 

[PATSNUTme]

no i was not informed...do you know where he is in Italy ?

weather is fine in Central - South Italy

I don't know but he did say that he had internet access every once in a while, over there. He said he would be gone 10 days and that was 3 days ago.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Patriots Hall Of Fame Nominees

Ray,I think Houston Antwine should be in too but He wasn't nominated which is a travesty but I really think that all three guys were deserving.As for Jim Nance having two great seasons remember He played some of that time with the likes of Joe Kapp and Mike Taliferro as his quarterback.Everyone knew the patriots were going to run and no one feared their passing game.Besides Nance The Patriots biggest Offensive weapon was Gino Cappaletti and he was the place kicker.It's scary to remember some of the receivers back then from Ron Sellers to Eddie Hinton Remember,The Patriots were calling running backs out of the stands to play on Sundays( Think Bob Gladieux).That Jim Nance got any yards was simply amazing. His Patriot's record 45 rushing Touchdowns is reason enough for Jim to be in .No one has yet match that total,not Sam Bam,not Turbo Tony,not Corey Dillon,not Antowain Smith. Ray,I don't have to tell You how low thing got in the late 60's and early 70"s. Geting dressed at The Ramada Inn.Guys walking out minutes before games( John Charles and Larry Carwell) both starting Cornerbacks.It was a zoo and Jim Nance continued to play.

There's no doubt the team fell apart in that decade, but Nance was culpable too, as the team didnt force feed him. He was ridiculously out of shape (fat) his last few years. I have no problem with him in the Hall of fame, I have fond memories of he and cookie Gilchrist playing power ball the way i like it.

Of course no one was cheering Morris while he played center (he's apparently around now, hence his late nomination). Glamour positions like RB and QB are always over represented in these popularity contests.

The irony is, in a fan vote around 1971 he was voted all time Patriots MVP (the wording on Patriots.com has changed. If anyone has the 1971 media guide and can correct me I apologize).

The fact is, After John Hannah, Nick Buoniconti and Mike Haynes he probably deserves in more than any other Patriot (remember, only Buoniconti and Antwine are the best of the AFL, not Nance, Parilli, Cappelletti etc.)

I was planning on writing all the mediots in an attempt to get them to actually research the team they cover, which is why I'm pissed this came out of the blue.

 

[RayClay]

Re: Patriots Hall of Fame - NOMINEES for this year

Most people never saw these guys play. In fact, unless you went to the games back then, most people in MA didn't see them play. Politics has nothing to do with it. How can someone who never saw them play vote? Does a stat sheet say everything? They were great Patriots. How many people on this board have seen them play? Are you old enough to have seen them play and did you go to the games? If not, I assume you won't be voting? Even if you were one of the few, do you think they should be voting? My point being, how do you even know who was the best if you never saw them play so how is "best" determined?

One doesn't have to watch every game to follow a team. Pro bowler every year, voted to all time teams. They had TV back then too.

Let's face it, people followed games on the radio also. A sack is a sack, a game saving tackle is just that.

Hell, I never saw Beethoven live, but i love his symphonies. It's just a matter of doing a little research on your team. I have no doubt Babe Ruth was the greatest player for his time. Your standard is absurd, you read the papers of the commentators who followed the team etc.

If a player was the best at his position in the entire history of the league he played in, he should be in a hall of fame which includes a large number of his teammates who weren't.

 

[RayClay]

i will follow Yr suggestion

buon pomeriggio (here is allready 3,25 pm)

ciao

Hi Italian Pat. Sorry,I'm ticked off today.

 

[NoCal Patriot]

Re: Patriots Hall Of Fame Nominees

There's no doubt the team fell apart in that decade, but Nance was culpable too, as the team didnt force feed him. He was ridiculously out of shape (fat) his last few years. I have no problem with him in the Hall of fame, I have fond memories of he and cookie Gilchrist playing power ball the way i like it.

Of course no one was cheering Morris while he played center (he's apparently around now, hence his late nomination). Glamour positions like RB and QB are always over represented in these popularity contests.

The irony is, in a fan vote around 1971 he was voted all time Patriots MVP (the wording on Patriots.com has changed. If anyone has the 1971 media guide and can correct me I apologize).

The fact is, After John Hannah, Nick Buoniconti and Mike Haynes he probably deserves in more than any other Patriot (remember, only Buoniconti and Antwine are the best of the AFL, not Nance, Parilli, Cappelletti etc.)

I was planning on writing all the mediots in an attempt to get them to actually research the team they cover, which is why I'm pissed this came out of the blue.

Ray,I really don't think that You and I are that far apart on this issue.I'll state my view clearly "Houston Antwine belongs in The Patriots HOF and He should have been there a long time ago.". As for Your list I would add one other name and that is Julius Adams.
The guy I think who can get the ball rolling on Antwine is Steve Buckley.
Drop Him an email and I will too and maybe We can start the ball rolling.Most of the football writers in this town are so young that they will have no idea who He is.
if Bob Dee is in then Antwine should be in too !

 

[RayClay]

Re: Patriots Hall Of Fame Nominees

Ray,I really don't think that You and I are that far apart on this issue.I'll state my view clearly "Houston Antwine belongs in The Patriots HOF and He should have been there a long time ago.". As for Your list I would add one other name and that is Julius Adams.
The guy I think who can get the ball rolling on Antwine is Steve Buckley.
Drop Him an email and I will too and maybe We can start the ball rolling.Most of the football writers in this town are so young that they will have no idea who He is.
if Bob Dee is in then Antwine should be in too !

It's unfortunate. I wouldn't bother if it was arguable, but it really isn't. Jim Lee Hunt is in too. He's also a tackle. Antwine is the all time tackle on the AFL team in the hall of fame and Hunt is not LOL!!

I think it's too late for this year. I wrote Reese and Patriots.com. I don't think this is an issue of having to have seen him. 5 minutes research would tell you he belongs in.