Patriots could have fewest points allowed in NFL in last three years

[Tuck]

The reason yards are often used is because all the yards given up are by the defense. Points are affected by the other two phases of the game.

don't the other two phases impact yards too?

 

[NormZauchin]

of course I did not mean it definitively. "Stats can be manipulated to prove any points; therefore, are useless" was my point. Again, you are taking something out of context.

Do you feel that way about stats in all sports - taking issue with the Moneyball thesis?

 

[Ring 6]

But yards are also affected by the two phases of the game. Many times you do not have to gain a lot of yards to score a TD. DOVA assigns some weight to yards. It is not exact science but better than PPG \YPG

The team with the higher Dvoa isn't declared winner.

 

[Ring 6]

DVOA is a decent evaluation tool for games played and we can say that for whatever reason this defense has played better against their competition more so than other teams have. Which is true.

But, as you imply, football is a complimentary game and the defense has fed off of the successes the offense and special teams have had.

PPG, DVOA's and other stats are a good foundation for discussion starters so I wouldn't label them as meaningless because they can put successes or failures into context. We can't conclusively state that this defense is the best in the league but on the same token we can't say they are the worst either.

And you certainly can't conclusively say they aren't the best.

 

[Tony2046]

And you certainly can't conclusively say they aren't the best.

That's true as well. hahaha

 

[Tuck]

The team with the higher Dvoa isn't declared winner.

I'll give you that but they should be, based this thread.

 

[Ring 6]

I'll give you that but they should be, based this thread.

Which is why this thread is wrong.

 

[Tuck]

Which is why this thread is wrong.

I read it as a rambling excuse for those who have been saying the defense sucks all year.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

There's no question that this defense has evolved to the point where it passes the eye test. There's also no question that it wasn't always there. If it had been, BB & co. wouldn't have made the flurry of in-season moves that they did. Over the past few games we've seen the new (e.g. Rowe, Van Noy) and adjusted (Ryan) pieces start to fit together.

For the full-season scoring stat, IMO it's a terrific illustration of the notion of full-team defense with special teams and offense setting up the defense for success. Limiting turnovers, moving the ball even if you don't score, downing punts inside the 20, stopping return men cold...that's all an integral part of scoring prevention, and nobody does it better. All of that + a rapidly gelling defensive unit gives you two straight games without a touchdown allowed. Good stuff.

This sums it very well. And it is something that gets lost in the tunnelvision of 'but team X's defense looks so much better than the Patriots'.

I wouldn't say the Patriots have the best defense in the NFL. IMHO, surprisingly, they don't have the best offense either. But when you put the sum of the parts together, full team D, attention to TOs, STs, running game (Lewis a major plus!), passing game -- from an overall, complimentary football standpoint the Patriots are the best team of the NFL 2016 season. Now it doesn't mean the Patriots can't be beat but they are clearly the odds on favorite and that is because of how strong the complimentary nature of the 2016 team is (if we bring our A game for the upcoming AFCDG, AFCCG, SB? We are in very good shape against anyone).

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

And you certainly can't conclusively say they aren't the best.

Let me see if I got this straight: We can't say we're not uncertain they aren't the best?

 

[deroc5050]

I think the Pats are a good defense but when you add up all the offenses they played against this season, I didn't make this up.. we ranked 32nd. So basically collectively we played the worst offenses as a season stat.

After the niners game I know alot of people looking at the schedule did not see much offensive fire power ahead of us. Denver and Baltimore were good team wins, but didn't pose great offenses.

However with all that said I still think we cruz to the Super Bowl.

 

[rads2005]

This might be the stupidest thing I have read on this board in a long time.

Then you're dismissing what can be a very intellectual discussion with many valid points. Statistics are most certainly not the be all and end all and can be not only misleading but too easily manipulated. There's a reason Stephen Jay Gould started his book with "there are lies, damned lies, and statistics."

There's little doubt they have a use and can be helpful, but only in context.

The Pats defense has made strides, but overall against pretty weak quarterbacks. Now, if that's all they face in the playoffs, then okay. If they focus and play better as defenses often seem to do in the playoffs, great.

But to ignore Belichick himself when he said the defense had been "disappointing" even BEFORE performances like the horrific Seahawks game in favor of statistics, and only statistics, I would disagree with.

I do hope they continue to step it up, that Rowe keeps going with his confident play, that the Malcom Brown benching has the same effect it did in getting Sheard to play a bit better, that Trey Flowers can make another small leap, McCourty can make a few more plays, that they've saved up some more weird blitz packages like the Ravens game if they run into a good, hot QB in the playoffs/SB, etc.

 

[luuked]

Then you're dismissing what can be a very intellectual discussion with many valid points. Statistics are most certainly not the be all and end all and can be not only misleading but too easily manipulated. There's a reason Stephen Jay Gould started his book with "there are lies, damned lies, and statistics."

There's little doubt they have a use and can be helpful, but only in context.

I am not dismissing anything. Without statistics there is no science, without science we are fcuked.

The issues you mention are not a reflection on statistics in general but on humans being incompetent idiots or -- even worse -- malicious.

For some reason you are going into football when my reply was to a person that said he actually "quit on his major in stats because it is meaningless".

 

[ChessToCheckers]

We'll know if this is a "Championship Defense" depending on whether we win the Super Bowl or not! There's a long way to go and a tough road ahead. Go Pats!

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

2016 Patriots finished the season allowing fewer points than any other team in 2016, 2015, or 2014.