PatFanKen Where Art Thou?

[BTTA]

i would like to imagine he's on an epic heater at Foxwoods...

Yup, after which he'll drive directly to the Complex and make the Krafts an offer they can't refuse.
Just one more roll...all in on red...

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I think he's also been frustrated with some of the unbalanced discussions during what's obviously been a tough season. I get it, they're 2-9 and a mess, but it's tough to try and reasonably discuss some issues without the repeated interjections on some of the topics that have been discussed ad nauseam on here. Although, at the same time, it's tough to find much to be positive about, which only exacerbates the problem.

I mean, they've lost four straight and are now heading into a stretch with plenty of uncertainty. Hopefully, they'll at least figure some things out and build some sort of positive momentum heading into the offseason.

Of course, over the years there have been several (not that many) seasons like this for me as a Patriots fan; and there's a security and enjoyment in the certainty that I am and will always remain so, no matter how bad we are, and that you can't always win, but there are lots of perspectives to gain, experience to learn from, and potential there to contribute to future success. I was always a fan of the sport in general. I guess there's the knowledge that I have no control over Billy Sullivan or Bob Kraft (not yet, anyway). I would just root for the players to overcome ownership's horrible flaws (which they often did).

I think coach Belichick (who should not be fired, by the way) should be made to accept help in personnel decisions, from a good source (like me).

And help in the establishment and maintaining of a winning locker room culture (also from me).

Kraft obviously will never change. But there's enough good things he does to keep the franchise going.

Maybe if I hop on a little boat and 'accidentally' bump into Coach sometime in Nantucket in the Spring...

 

[venecol]

I think he's also been frustrated with some of the unbalanced discussions during what's obviously been a tough season. I get it, they're 2-9 and a mess, but it's tough to try and reasonably discuss some issues without the repeated interjections on some of the topics that have been discussed ad nauseam on here. Although, at the same time, it's tough to find much to be positive about, which only exacerbates the problem.

I mean, they've lost four straight and are now heading into a stretch with plenty of uncertainty. Hopefully, they'll at least figure some things out and build some sort of positive momentum heading into the offseason.

I see it differently. Some of us saw this coming several years ago. Unfortunately, questioning Bill has been a no-no on this site until recently. It took what is happening now for most on the forum to finally open their eyes. I've noticed quite a few IBWT posters giving up on Bill. The majority of the Mac supporters have gone silent or are in hiding.

Being positive for the sake of being positive is both dumb and lazy. As fans we should try to maintain our objectivity while still rooting for the team we support, to make improvements. Instead, fans that dared to question what was going on with the team were ridiculed and silenced. Ken was one of those that scoffed at anyone that questioned Bill a/o the coaches, players, etc.

What's left:

Anti-Bill, Pro-Mac 10%
Pro-Bill, Anti-Mac: 25%
Anti-Bill, Anti-Mac: 50%
Pro-Bill, Pro-Mac: 10% (yes, there's a few left)
RLKAG: 5%

 

[AQPE]

I see it differently. Some of us saw this coming several years ago. Unfortunately, questioning Bill has been a no-no on this site until recently. It took what is happening now for most on the forum to finally open their eyes. I've noticed quite a few IBWT posters giving up on Bill. The majority of the Mac supporters have gone silent or are in hiding.

Being positive for the sake of being positive is both dumb and lazy. As fans we should try to maintain our objectivity while still rooting for the team we support, to make improvements. Instead, fans that dared to question what was going on with the team were ridiculed and silenced. Ken was one of those that scoffed at anyone that questioned Bill a/o the coaches, players, etc.

What's left:

Anti-Bill, Pro-Mac 10%
Pro-Bill, Anti-Mac: 25%
Anti-Bill, Anti-Mac: 50%
Pro-Bill, Pro-Mac: 10% (yes, there's a few left)
RLKAG: 5%

Underlined text here from your post to highlight why your effectiveness in persuading people to see things your way is an opportunity for improvement for you.

 

[Guts]

We suck thats why he not here

I see it differently. Some of us saw this coming several years ago. Unfortunately, questioning Bill has been a no-no on this site until recently. It took what is happening now for most on the forum to finally open their eyes. I've noticed quite a few IBWT posters giving up on Bill. The majority of the Mac supporters have gone silent or are in hiding.

Being positive for the sake of being positive is both dumb and lazy. As fans we should try to maintain our objectivity while still rooting for the team we support, to make improvements. Instead, fans that dared to question what was going on with the team were ridiculed and silenced. Ken was one of those that scoffed at anyone that questioned Bill a/o the coaches, players, etc.

What's left:

Anti-Bill, Pro-Mac 10%
Pro-Bill, Anti-Mac: 25%
Anti-Bill, Anti-Mac: 50%
Pro-Bill, Pro-Mac: 10% (yes, there's a few left)
RLKAG: 5%

I love you man

 

[Ian]

I see it differently. Some of us saw this coming several years ago. Unfortunately, questioning Bill has been a no-no on this site until recently. It took what is happening now for most on the forum to finally open their eyes. I've noticed quite a few IBWT posters giving up on Bill. The majority of the Mac supporters have gone silent or are in hiding.

Yeah, that hasn’t been a thing for two years, as neither Ross nor I have required that.

Being positive for the sake of being positive is both dumb and lazy. As fans we should try to maintain our objectivity while still rooting for the team we support, to make improvements. Instead, fans that dared to question what was going on with the team were ridiculed and silenced. Ken was one of those that scoffed at anyone that questioned Bill a/o the coaches, players, etc.

The roster is a mess, I don’t think anyone here argues that. But I will say people completely nullifying Bill’s effect on the success of this team would be the one thing I would vehemently argue. All you need to do is go back and look at teams every January to realize that. That irks me, no matter how annoyed I am with the current roster.

Those of us who trust him on the field certainly no longer trust him with building the team going forward. At the same time, pick him up and drop him with a team with talent, and I certainly like his chances against anyone else in the postseason.

To your point, I agree that being positive for the sake of being positive is ridiculous. At the same time, trying to be analytical and level headed is what I was referring to. Because it’s hard to have productive discussions when everything is “they suck” or “Mac Sucks” or “Bill sucks.” At the same time, at 2-9, we’re definitely in uncharted territory.

But no one among the mods are pushing that people follow a narrative. Albeit, being able to separate how he’s been on the field vs the front office would be the only thing I would suggest people consider. But a request isn’t the same as forcing anybody to do anything.

Outside of us, just because there are contingents of people who feel a certain way, that’s certainly their prerogative and people have absolutely gone back and forth on here about it. But suggesting that any current mod who has been here the last two seasons has forced an agenda or has silenced anybody is 100% not true.

That would suggest Ross or I did that, and it absolutely didn’t happen. People might have bickered about it, but neither of us have ever silenced anybody for not supporting Bill.

Otherwise, I think we’re in agreement that the team he put together is awful and we have six more weeks to deal with it. After that, we’ll see what happens in the off-season.

 

[Ian]

I see it differently. Some of us saw this coming several years ago. Unfortunately, questioning Bill has been a no-no on this site until recently. It took what is happening now for most on the forum to finally open their eyes. I've noticed quite a few IBWT posters giving up on Bill. The majority of the Mac supporters have gone silent or are in hiding.

Being positive for the sake of being positive is both dumb and lazy. As fans we should try to maintain our objectivity while still rooting for the team we support, to make improvements. Instead, fans that dared to question what was going on with the team were ridiculed and silenced. Ken was one of those that scoffed at anyone that questioned Bill a/o the coaches, players, etc.

What's left:

Anti-Bill, Pro-Mac 10%
Pro-Bill, Anti-Mac: 25%
Anti-Bill, Anti-Mac: 50%
Pro-Bill, Pro-Mac: 10% (yes, there's a few left)
RLKAG: 5%

Also, it’s Ken’s right to scoff at that, just as it’s your right to question it. That’s the entire point of the forum. People are going to disagree and the product on the field is ultimately going to control the narrative.

My one issue has only ever been having the same thing repeated ad nauseoum in every single thread. Outside of that, I don’t have an issue.

 

[venecol]

Underlined text here from your post to highlight why your effectiveness in persuading people to see things your way is an opportunity for improvement for you.

I'm not about persuading anyone just voicing my opinions. Unfortunately, I've seen posters with opinions that aren't in keeping with the forum 'motto' be chased away or banned. That's total BS to me. Even if I don't agree with someone's opinion, I'll defend their right to voice it. There's been way too much blind homerism on this forum to the detriment of the site. I like disagreements. Makes life more interesting. Having an echo chamber in a football forum is boring as ****.

 

[Ian]

I'm not about persuading anyone just voicing my opinions. Unfortunately, I've seen posters with opinions that aren't in keeping with the forum 'motto' be chased away or banned. That's total BS to me.

That hasn’t happened. There have been three people removed in the last two years. The sole person removed related to football was a person who brought up the same thing in Every. Single. Thread. And that was after literally dozens of PMs and conversations trying to get him to chill out. I exhausted every option there, believe me.

The only other ones removed were different circumstances. I won’t rehash that.

And I agree, I don’t agree with silencing opinions, which I’m aware was an issue three years ago. Neither Ross nor I (and now Mike) have done that. But being “chased away” also goes against the premise of being able to deal with a difference of opinion. That’s also why I instituted the mute functions, which I do wish more people utilized.

 

[venecol]

Yeah, that hasn’t been a thing for two years, as neither Ross nor I have required that.

Ashley was still here in Jan '23.

The roster is a mess, I don’t think anyone here argues that. But I will say people completely nullifying Bill’s effect on the success of this team would be the one thing I would vehemently argue. All you need to do is go back and look at teams every January to realize that. That irks me, no matter how annoyed I am with the current roster.

For the Patriots, the team has been making an uncharacteristic number of bone headed mistakes and penalties for the last 4 seasons. That goes directly to the coaching and HC.

Those of us who trust him on the field certainly no longer trust him with building the team going forward. At the same time, pick him up and drop him with a team with talent, and I certainly like his chances against anyone else in the postseason.

Maybe, but it certainly hasn't worked out here with his hand picked, coached players so there's that.

To your point, I agree that being positive for the sake of being positive is ridiculous. At the same time, trying to be analytical and level headed is what I was referring to. Because it’s hard to have productive discussions when everything is “they suck” or “Mac Sucks” or “Bill sucks.” At the same time, at 2-9, we’re definitely in uncharted territory.

We ass.

But no one among the mods are pushing that people follow a narrative. Albeit, being able to separate how he’s been on the field vs the front office would be the only thing I would suggest people consider. But a request isn’t the same as forcing anybody to do anything.

Outside of us, just because there are contingents of people who feel a certain way, that’s certainly their prerogative and people have absolutely gone back and forth on here about it. But suggesting that any current mod who has been here the last two seasons has forced an agenda or has silenced anybody is 100% not true.

That would suggest Ross or I did that, and it absolutely didn’t happen. People might have bickered about it, but neither of us have ever silenced anybody for not supporting Bill.

Otherwise, I think we’re in agreement that the team he put together is awful and we have six more weeks to deal with it. After that, we’ll see what happens in the off-season.

I wasn't referring to the mods but the clan of posters that constantly attacked other posters for their different views and complained to mods to pressure them into action.

 

[Ian]

Ashley was still here in Jan '23.

“It is what it is.” But it’s not that way anymore.

For the Patriots, the team has been making an uncharacteristic number of bone headed mistakes and penalties for the last 4 seasons. That goes directly to the coaching and HC.

Can’t disagree there.

Maybe, but it certainly hasn't worked out here with his hand picked, coached players so there's that.

Agreed.

We ass.

2-9 confirms that.

I wasn't referring to the mods but the clan of posters that constantly attacked other posters for their different views and complained to mods to pressure them into action.

I get what you’re referring to - but anything I ever need to perform any action with is hardly ever related to a football-related topic or a difference of “views.” If that were the case, my life would be way easier. Believe me.

 

[Nikolai]

He told us last year he was tiring of the Idle Thoughts posts, which he obviously put so much effort and thought composing, sometimes during the wee hours. I’m sure he knows how much it was appreciated.

I actually felt like he did not know how much it was appreciated. I recall he was discouraged by what he perceived was lower interaction with his posts than he felt was warranted by his effort. Granted, the team was in decline at the time (boy, 2022 seems like the good ol days now), and the wind went out of a lot of people's sails.

There have been a few good weekly threads around with lower interaction. @PP2 and his talk of the tape thing seemed to crumble along with the team, and it's not like I can blame folks here. The catharsis of venting and talking cash **** about this year's terrible team is probably what most everyone needs to endure this season. In depth, insightful football discussions appear to be the luxuries of fanbases with teams in the Top 28.

Any insightful discussion now isn't about the games, but mostly confined to what's coming in the offseason and the draft.

Back to waiting for those wonderful times...

 

[VrabelJr]

At a bar doing Idle Shots

 

[n1997y]

I'm not about persuading anyone just voicing my opinions. Unfortunately, I've seen posters with opinions that aren't in keeping with the forum 'motto' be chased away or banned. That's total BS to me. Even if I don't agree with someone's opinion, I'll defend their right to voice it. There's been way too much blind homerism on this forum to the detriment of the site. I like disagreements. Makes life more interesting. Having an echo chamber in a football forum is boring as ****.

Problem is that the same thing is still happening now. It’s just that the perpetrators enforcing groupthink are so wrapped up in their own ideas or opinions they don’t realize they’ve turned the site into an echo chamber intolerant of objective discourse or differing opinions. There are too many folks making one post but making it many times over.

 

[Nikolai]

At a bar doing Idle Shots

Holy ****. I think I have the name for the weekly...

 

[n1997y]

What's left:

Anti-Bill, Pro-Mac 10%
Pro-Bill, Anti-Mac: 25%
Anti-Bill, Anti-Mac: 50%
Pro-Bill, Pro-Mac: 10% (yes, there's a few left)
RLKAG: 5%

^there‘s the problem. The site has turned into a battleground among religious factions.

that view right there is intolerant of anyone who might take a balanced view and see both good and bad points about Bill, or Mac, or Kraft, or BOB.

there‘s no room for discussion, it’s all rhetoric and argument and rebuttal. Even in this thread Venecol’s responses such as when Ashley was still here come across as trying to win an argument not to discuss and reach an understanding. I’m not surprised that has driven Ken away from composing his insightful analyses.

there was some of that all along, with the Team Bill vs. Team Tom false dichotomy, but as long as the Team Patriots had wins to talk about there was room for those of us who really don’t subscribe to that false dichotomy. Now that the wins have gone away there’s not much room for positive discussion. And there are a limited number of ways to say BiLl MuSt Go! before it devolves to uninteresting noise.

i figure Ken is probably not here for the same reason I’m not here as much these days: there’s not much interesting here.

 

[n1997y]

At a bar doing Idle Shots

If so I wish he’d post the bar name, I would like to join him.

 

[VrabelJr]

^there‘s the problem. The site has turned into a battleground among religious factions.

that view right there is intolerant of anyone who might take a balanced view and see both good and bad points about Bill, or Mac, or Kraft, or BOB.

there‘s no room for discussion, it’s all rhetoric and argument and rebuttal. Even in this thread Venecol’s responses such as when Ashley was still here come across as trying to win an argument not to discuss and reach an understanding. I’m not surprised that has driven Ken away from composing his insightful analyses.

there was some of that all along, with the Team Bill vs. Team Tom false dichotomy, but as long as the Team Patriots had wins to talk about there was room for those of us who really don’t subscribe to that false dichotomy. Now that the wins have gone away there’s not much room for positive discussion. And there are a limited number of ways to say BiLl MuSt Go! before it devolves to uninteresting noise.

i figure Ken is probably not here for the same reason I’m not here as much these days: there’s not much interesting here.

Let’s just name names: venecol, sb1, captain stone, TheRainMaker

 

[SammyBlueCat]

This years team is not interesting to watch or talk about and beating up the head coach and the qb over and over is pointless.

Never the less I come here often looking for hope.

 

[Guts]

Let’s just name names: venecol, sb1, captain stone, TheRainMaker

Why don't you @ them
You gonna call someone out @ them
Scaredy cat