Our Defense is NOT Loaded; our BACKUPS are weak.

[BTTA]

A total of one ROOKIE UFA receives more than 6 snaps per game as a position player on between half to one third of the teams.

That is the discussion. This is not about non rookies so I'm not sure why that fact was even brought up as relevant, except as an end around desperate to make a point.

In real terms I imagine it is probably more likely that the eventual position backup during the coming season be listed as "other" as in someone not currently on the roster than an UFA rookie.

Ah, ok, I see. It is apples and oranges.
I'm trying to read this space to find useful information to support a minor hobby of following the team. It is tiresome to see you two pretend it isn't and make the space messy in the process.

 

[rkarp1]

Given, the other in-house compeition for the 2-3 backup ILB roster spots, I guess that you are expecting a free agant signing.

or a trade

Given, the other in-house compeition for the 2-3 backup ILB roster spots, I guess that you are expecting a free agant signing.

or a trade
not necessarily a big move
a depth move
Gibbens was the perfect example.
played for $1.3m
when called on, was very solid. wore the green dot. had multiple games with double digit tackles and multiple games playing 100% of the defensive snaps.
find someone like him to provide some vet snaps behind Spillane/Elliss.
if any of the current players are the better player, best player plays.

 

[rkarp1]

Just like “Okorafor is good,” your Muma hate will likely age poorly.

Finding a reclamation project like Nincovich or Chaisson is very often a good plan. The coaches had Muma for the last couple games of the regular season and into the playoffs, they know what they have assuming health. It’s why they let Gibbens walk for peanuts.

the same defensive staff in the playoffs last season, had Gibbens playing 50 defensive snaps against Den and 31 defensive snaps against Seattle. Yet they played Muma 0 defensive snaps against Den and 4 defensive snaps against Seattle.

Gibbens then parlayed his season into a 2 year $7.5m deal in free agency
Muma is a roster question mark on a $1.2m non guaranteed deal

I hope Muma is the next Nink or Vrabel. but the team needs a better plan at back up IML than "I hope Muma can play"

 

[Wozzy]

the same defensive staff in the playoffs last season, had Gibbens playing 50 defensive snaps against Den and 31 defensive snaps against Seattle. Yet they played Muma 0 defensive snaps against Den and 4 defensive snaps against Seattle.

Like I said, seeing 3 regular season games and the playoffs of Muma was enough to let Gibbens walk for peanuts.

Gibbens then parlayed his season into a 2 year $7.5m deal in free agency

It’s one year 4.5M from one of the worst teams in the NFL Cardinals. You’d think a “good” player coming off a Super Bowl appearance would have more of a market. NFL scouts must watch tape.

Muma is a roster question mark on a $1.2m non guaranteed deal

Just like Nicovich and other reclamation projects, he’s playing for his next deal.

I hope Muma is the next Nink or Vrabel. but the team needs a better plan at back up IML than "I hope Muma can play"

You don’t hope, you’ve proven repeatedly you’d rather have a Patriot player fail because Wozzy liked him than be wrong. If you were smart you’d agree with me far more often instead of rush to disagree.

Muma already plays special teams at a high level. He can already play. We’ll see how well he can play defense eventually.

 

[rkarp1]

Like I said, seeing 3 regular season games and the playoffs of Muma was enough to let Gibbens walk for peanuts.

It’s one year 4.5M from one of the worst teams in the NFL Cardinals. You’d think a “good” player coming off a Super Bowl appearance would have more of a market. NFL scouts must watch tape.

Just like Nicovich and other reclamation projects, he’s playing for his next deal.

You don’t hope, you’ve proven repeatedly you’d rather have a Patriot player fail because Wozzy liked him than be wrong. If you were smart you’d agree with me far more often instead of rush to disagree.

Muma already plays special teams at a high level. He can already play. We’ll see how well he can play defense eventually.

as mentioned, I don't give a **** what Wozzy likes, says or thinks.

I want Muma to be a great contributer on defense here. but he is 27 years old, and hasn't been, including last season. Maybe he makes the 53 on his ST play alone. simply said, again, I prefer some vet competition to push everyone to a higher level. best player plays.

funny that you label Gibbens salary peanuts when it is quadruple Muma's. and it is guaranteed. Muma's is not.
Gibbens played for this same defensive staff last season, Muma did not
from my vantage point, Muma has a lot to prove. I hope he is up to the task

 

[Family]

Like I said, seeing 3 regular season games and the playoffs of Muma was enough to let Gibbens walk for peanuts.

It’s one year 4.5M from one of the worst teams in the NFL Cardinals. You’d think a “good” player coming off a Super Bowl appearance would have more of a market. NFL scouts must watch tape.

It's 3X what Gibbens made here and 12X the Patriots guarantee in 2025 (which is really what matters).

Amazing how you can spin something that makes another posters point, and walk away like you think you're smarter than the room.

 

[Wozzy]

as mentioned, I don't give a **** what Wozzy likes, says or thinks.

Sure...

I want Muma to be a great contributer on defense here. but he is 27 years old, and hasn't been, including last season. Maybe he makes the 53 on his ST play alone. simply said, again, I prefer some vet competition to push everyone to a higher level. best player plays.

You're already pot committed to "Muma sucks" and being wrong is your worst nightmare for some weird reason. Most of us just admit we were wrong, you dance and slither like an eel to suggest you're not.

funny that you label Gibbens salary peanuts when it is quadruple Muma's. and it is guaranteed. Muma's is not.
Gibbens played for this same defensive staff last season, Muma did not
from my vantage point, Muma has a lot to prove. I hope he is up to the task

Funny how you insist Gibbens playing for 309K guaranteed last season was a smart signing but Muma's low cost/low risk deal now is a sure sign he sucks. Gibbens played for Vrabel and the defensive coaches in Tennessee at the start of his career, they had an inkling of a clue who he was.. Muma was a total unknown to them outside of the draft process.

Muma does have a lot to prove, he is playing for his next contract, potentially his next big contract. Gibbens has already proven unworthy of that next big deal. He only got a one year show me deal from one of the worst teams in the league.

 

[Wozzy]

It's 3X what Gibbens made here and 12X the Patriots guarantee in 2025 (which is really what matters).

Amazing how you can spin something that makes another posters point, and walk away like you think you're smarter than the room.

Rkarp said it was "starter money."

A one year 4 million dollar deal for a guy under 30 is not starter money.

 

[Family]

Rkarp said it was "starter money."

A one year 4 million dollar deal for a guy under 30 is not starter money.

So you pounce on one irrelevant exaggeration, and spin it like it matters to the discussion. Who is all over the place again?

Last year we had Gibbens and Mapu plus Tavai coming back as potential backups.

This year it's Muma, a rookie 6th round pick, and a couple of lottery tickets.

If we had three experienced higher draft busts (so far) like Muma, OK, but just Muma with three longer shots is weak for backups.

 

[Wozzy]

So you pounce on one irrelevant exaggeration, and spin it like it matters to the discussion. Who is all over the place again?

You. The conversation was about backups and you took us down a long winding journey into the history of success of UDFA's even though there were two drafted players ahead of the undrafted ones on the Pats. You laughably said you didn't even know a quarter of the NFL was UDFA's... then went off on a tangent about playing time as UDFA rookies. You... you've been all over the place.

Last year we had Gibbens and Mapu plus Tavai coming back as potential backups.

Mapu never developed.

Tavai was a 30 year old average blue collar athlete coming off serious injury who wasn't available until week five in a limited role.

This year it's Muma, a rookie 6th round pick, and a couple of lottery tickets.

If we had three experienced higher draft busts (so far) like Muma, OK, but just Muma with three longer shots is weak for backups.

Muma, a really talented draftee in Obiazor, and two talented UDFA's is better knowing what we know now.

Amari Gainer is also not a rookie, he was a rookie exiting the 2024 season. He impressed the Pete Carroll and that Raider's coaching staff during preseason, notably recording a game-high 12 tackles in the final preseason game against the San Francisco 49ers which secured his spot on the initial 53-man roster. During the 2024 season, he played in all 17 games, primarily contributing on special teams.

 

[mgteich]

the same defensive staff in the playoffs last season, had Gibbens playing 50 defensive snaps against Den and 31 defensive snaps against Seattle. Yet they played Muma 0 defensive snaps against Den and 4 defensive snaps against Seattle.

Gibbens then parlayed his season into a 2 year $7.5m deal in free agency
Muma is a roster question mark on a $1.2m non guaranteed deal

I hope Muma is the next Nink or Vrabel. but the team needs a better plan at back up IML than "I hope Muma can play"

Muma is NOT a roster question mark. He needn't be the quality of Gibbens to be the #5 ILB and get lots of reps on special teams.

I agree that have considerable question marks with regard to who will replace Gibbens as the first ILB off the bench. I'm sure that Vrabel will continue to look. As it is, we have 2 roster spots likely for Britt and Obiazor, with a couple of the others on the Practice Squad. So, the question for now is whether Muma OR Britt is able to effectively play significant reps. Laketa might even be in the mix as the #4 ILB. But I agree that we need a good #3 who could be the captain inside if there is an injury to Spillane.

 

[Wozzy]

Muma is NOT a roster question mark. He needn't be the quality of Gibbens to be the #5 ILB and get lots of reps on special teams.

I agree that have considerable question marks with regard to who will replace Gibbens as the first ILB off the bench. I'm sure that Vrabel will continue to look. As it is, we have 2 roster spots likely for Britt and Obiazor, with a couple of the others on the Practice Squad. So, the question for now is whether Muma OR Britt is able to effectively play significant reps. Laketa might even be in the mix as the #4 ILB. But I agree that we need a good #3 who could be the captain inside if there is an injury to Spillane.

I'm sure Vrabel will base his decision on what he's seen in practice and on special teams... not on "I hope Muma can play."

I suspect Muma is first up if Spillane gets hurt, Obiazor if Ellis got hurt and assuming he looks decent in preseason. Obi was a former safety in his younger days.

I could be wrong, but this would be really good depth and a contingency plan if I'm correct. This would be a good path with an eye on the future.

 

[captain stone]

Muma is NOT a roster question mark. He needn't be the quality of Gibbens to be the #5 ILB and get lots of reps on special teams...

Of course he's a question mark. As of today, the ones who stand the best chance of securing seats in the LB room as long as they don't completely screw-up are Obiazor & Britt, in that order. If Pats keep only 4 LBs then Muma & Jacobs are on the outside looking-in...