OT: Vick's toast...or is he...

[Patriot_in_NY]

It's either ONE, or the OTHER.

I say hes gone. Way too hot to handle for the NFL.

 

[Crazy Patriot Guy]

Re: OT: Vick's toast........... or is he........

I was talking about Vick with someone at work and we both agreed that guilty or not guilty, with the trial not until late in the season, he needs to sit out for his own good and for the good of the team. The Ray Lewis-Super Bowl hooplah would not even come remotely close to what that team would go through if he was with them. The media would be relentless. Plus, right or wrong, many people have already found him guilty and I wonder about games being disrupted by fans throwing things or whatever.

Again, the Falcons wouldn't even count if Vick was with them, it would be only about him and dog fighting. I have no trouble believing they would/will have a better season without him than with him and dealing with the constant distraction.

 

[Bella*chick]

Re: OT: Vick's toast........... or is he........

The other two defendants are accepting plea agreements. Vick is now alone in "clearing his good name."

He's toast, all right.

 

[PromisedLand]

Re: OT: Vick's toast........... or is he........

The other two defendants are accepting plea agreements. Vick is now alone in "clearing his good name."

He's toast, all right.

Yup - that story just broke late this afternoon. ONE way or the OTHER were both written without that information.

 

[rabthepat]

Re: OT: Vick's toast........... or is he........

I am starting to do a 180 on this issue. I was originally for suspending him before the court trial due to the bad press he has brought the league. Yet, now I think unless the league has some hard evidence of their own they should let him play and then when Vick has had his day in court take action either way.

What if he did not do it and is found not guilty? Or what if he did do it but is still found not guilty? Jury decisions can be surprising.

You could also make the case that other players have done worse things and weren't convicted before their trials. Leonard Little is a classic example. He killed someone dunk driving yet he plays.

 

[jbb9s]

Re: OT: Vick's toast........... or is he........

ESPN reported last night that the league will basically mandate a suspension based on a league rule which Vick broke: He lied to Goodell. Basically, he said he never went to that VA house originally after meeting Goodell- something he now renegs on. So he is guilty of lying - enough to get suspended by the NFL regardless of his legal problems.

 

[jcdavey]

Re: OT: Vick's toast........... or is he........

It's either ONE, or the OTHER.

I say hes gone. Way too hot to handle for the NFL.

hopefully goodell executes his career soon, before the season begins

 

[rabthepat]

Re: OT: Vick's toast........... or is he........

ESPN reported last night that the league will basically mandate a suspension based on a league rule which Vick broke: He lied to Goodell. Basically, he said he never went to that VA house originally after meeting Goodell- something he now renegs on. So he is guilty of lying - enough to get suspended by the NFL regardless of his legal problems.

Lying equals how much of a suspension? Joey Porter starts a brawl in a casino, pleads guilty and no suspension.

I could see suspending Vick when he flipped the finger at the fans but lying?

 

[DaBruinz]

Re: OT: Vick's toast........... or is he........

Lying equals how much of a suspension? Joey Porter starts a brawl in a casino, pleads guilty and no suspension.

I could see suspending Vick when he flipped the finger at the fans but lying?

Well, Porter got a misdemenor. Not a ciminal felony. Also, Porter admitted it happened. And Porter was fined 3 game checks (over $141K). Also, its been rumored that Porter escaped suspension because the Fins were not happy with having to lose a home game by going to play in the UK so not suspending Porter was some-what of a placation for the Phins.

Vick, on the other hand, appears to have bold-faced LIED to Gooddell because he supposedly told Gooddell he'd never been to the house. A few weeks later, he says that he'd been a few times and now, the feds have arrested him for being there at fights and conspiracy for said fights, with potentially racketeering and gambling charges to follow.

When it comes to players, you also have to consider just how big of a celebrity Michael Vick was. Look at all the sponsorships he's lost. Nike, Reebok Jerseys, Rawlings and Upper Deck Trading Cards. What is Joey Porter? When Porter was at his best, I bet he wasn't even generating a 20th of the sales Vick's stuff did.

 

[spacecrime]

Re: OT: Vick's toast........... or is he........

Don't equate beng convicted in a court of law and violating the NFL personal conduct policy. THey are not the same.

It is the same with all industries with a high public presence. One's actions determine whether you violate corporate policy, not what laws were or were not broken.

To say this is unfair may have merit, but the fact is, when people take certain jobs, the rules are that if you credit a situation that is detrimental to the corporation, you are terminated.

It is not unique to Vick or the NFL.

I am starting to do a 180 on this issue. I was originally for suspending him before the court trial due to the bad press he has brought the league. Yet, now I think unless the league has some hard evidence of their own they should let him play and then when Vick has had his day in court take action either way.

What if he did not do it and is found not guilty? Or what if he did do it but is still found not guilty? Jury decisions can be surprising.

You could also make the case that other players have done worse things and weren't convicted before their trials. Leonard Little is a classic example. He killed someone dunk driving yet he plays.

 

[DarrylS]

Re: OT: Vick's toast........... or is he........

This AM's stuff indicate the other co-defendents are accepting deals, and the DA has offered him one as well. I suspect that if he went to trial, the outrage, would ruin him for life.. whatever the deal is he will probably be advised to take a good hard look at it.. if they went to trial the outrage from all the dog lovers in the US + the PETA folks would make his life miserable. Gooddell is not stupid, the NFL is on a roll and he wants nothing to stand in its way. I hope Vick resolves this, so the NFL can move on and just do football, not a season of side show media circus.

 

[nhpatsfan]

Re: OT: Vick's toast........... or is he........

Does anyone have any details on the plea deal? Or on the ones recently accepted by the other two guys?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: OT: Vick's toast........... or is he........

These reports are all based on the names of the other two showing up on the trial judge's docket for 9AM Thursday and 9AM Friday. Their deals are likely the same as the one Taylor accepted - plead guilty to the existing charges, agree to testify against Vick, hope for sentencing lieniency and avoid the two additional charges rumored to be coming next week in a superceding indictment.

The ESPN piece claims that Vick's attorney's were caught off guard by the latest developments, which would indicate their client likely hasn't leveled with them either and probably told them his other boys would not roll. That article also says that his lawyers met with the prosecutor yesterday and were to meet with Vick last night.

It's unusual to accept a plea from all involved without one doing the lions share of the time - generally the last one to plea. And that guy often has to offer something more than his own testimony against himself - he might be looking at naming (and agreeing to testify against) other names just to get the same lieniency his co-defendents will garner at sentencing for agreeing to testify against him. ESPN's legal analyst is saying that if he pleads Vick will likely therefore face not months but years. He could still take his chances with a jury hoping it contains some of his empathetic peers. But if he does he will likely be facing 20+ years if convicted once the superceding indictment is filed, rather than a couple of the 6 he currently faces.

Either way, the Michael Vick Experience is OVAH.

This, as well as his own investigator's report, is likely what Goodell has been banking on happening all along. If Vick pleads out his next move is a no brainer that team Vick and/or the NFLPA will be unable to fight. And even if he doesn't, he has the clear preponderence of evidence (like in a civil case - as opposed to beyond a reasonable doubt in a crimimal case) he needs to proceed to do what the NFL as an employer wants/needs to do to put this PR mess to bed.

This is also likely sufficient grounds for the State to file it's cruelty charges, and expect plea deals as well based solely on the testimony contained in the federal plea deals, except of course for the fact that Poindexter remains at the helm of that matter.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/08/13/vick_0814.html

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Re: OT: Vick's toast........... or is he........

I tend to agree with the last couple post's. With these last two guy rolling, Vick has to basically give up saving the "football" angle and start focussing on the "life" angle. He's facing TIME now.

I agree, It's not in his best interest to get the sorted details of this event out in the public more than it already has. I think he'll go for a plea, but not to a lessor charge. It'll be a time plea (for sentencing). Pleading to the felony will end his NFL career, regardless of any suspension

I'm sure (I would hope) that his lawyers have him focussed on way beyond the possible football ramifications at this point. In not before these guys rolled, certainly now.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: OT: Vick's toast........... or is he........

This is also likely sufficient grounds for the State to file it's cruelty charges, and expect plea deals as well based solely on the testimony contained in the federal plea deals, except of course for the fact that Poindexter remains at the helm of that matter.

I am not a lawyer, so I could be wrong, but I would think that prosecutors might allow Vick to plead "no contest" (nolo contendere), which would mean that his plea could not be used as evidence against him at the state level.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Re: OT: Vick's toast........... or is he........

I am not a lawyer, so I could be wrong, but I would think that prosecutors might allow Vick to plead "no contest" (nolo contendere), which would mean that his plea could not be used as evidence against him at the state level.

No way................ They seem to have his b*lls in a vice as it is and already invested quite a bit to "flip" all these other co-actors against him. What incentive do they have to let him wiggle off with "maybe I did, maybe I didn't" plea. I'm not a lawyer either (can we get a lawyer in the house, please ), but I've always been under the impression, Nolo's are great in marginal cases and it often used to tip the scale at the end and clear a crappy case in a way that works for both parties. I get the sense, this isn't a marginal or crappy case at this point.

Then again, I might be totally off-base here too

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Re: OT: Vick's toast........... or is he........

ESPN's legal analyst is saying that if he pleads Vick will likely therefore face not months but years. He could still take his chances with a jury hoping it contains some of his empathetic peers. But if he does he will likely be facing 20+ years if convicted once the superceding indictment is filed, rather than a couple of the 6 he currently faces.

Either way, the Michael Vick Experience is OVAH.

This, as well as his own investigator's report, is likely what Goodell has been banking on happening all along. If Vick pleads out his next move is a no brainer that team Vick and/or the NFLPA will be unable to fight. And even if he doesn't, he has the clear preponderence of evidence (like in a civil case - as opposed to beyond a reasonable doubt in a crimimal case) he needs to proceed to do what the NFL as an employer wants/needs to do to put this PR mess to bed.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/falcons/stories/2007/08/13/vick_0814.html

I think it very likely that Vick trial may contain some juror sentiment akin to that in the OJ jury. If you read ATL and VA press there's a strong sentiment among some in the black community that Vick is being unjustly persecuted for crimes that white folk get away with. One juror is all it takes for a mistrial.

The question is...do you feel lucky Mikey? Lucky enough to risk a much longer sentence if convicted in a jury trial than the lesser jail sentence offered in a guilty plea bargain?

 

[Tunescribe]

Re: OT: Vick's toast........... or is he........

I think it very likely that Vick trial may contain some juror sentiment akin to that in the OJ jury. If you read ATL and VA press there's a strong sentiment among some in the black community that Vick is being unjustly persecuted for crimes that white folk get away with. One juror is all it takes for a mistrial.

The question is...do you feel lucky Mikey? Lucky enough to risk a much longer sentence if convicted in a jury trial than the lesser jail sentence offered in a guilty plea bargain?

I think it all hinges on whether he and his lawyers think there's a chance of saving his football career. If they think he can salvage something with an acquittal at trial, he'll go for it, and you can bet your bottom dollar that the race card will be played early and often in the courtroom. If they conclude that even with an acquittal his NFL career is finished, I'll bet they plea bargain to a couple years in the pen. It'll all come down to $$$. Probably the smart move for him is to plea bargan, do his two or three years while his investments grow interest, then live the rest of his life off the millions he already has. He'll be a pariah the rest of his life, but a rich one just the same if he's socked money away.

 

[Mainefan]

Re: OT: Vick's toast........... or is he........

I think he's done. I think he's going to plead out and go to jail, with his lawyers unwilling to risk a trial and count on a sympathetic jury. Michael Vick is no OJ Simpson and there will be so much direct, eye-witness evidence against him that no jury will find any wiggle-room for him. Remember, all the evidence against OJ, convincing as it might have been, was circumstantial, no witnesses.

But I think there's another reason altogether that Vick's football career is over. Can you imagine a father taking his son to a Mike Vick game? Can you imagine fan reaction when the Falcons, with Vick, play away games? He's going to be hooted out of the stadium, should he appear.

Perhaps--just perhaps--after serving two or three years in prison....no, not even then. Vick has superglued a dog-killer reputation to his persona. Sixty or 70 years from now, when he dies, his obituaries will prominently mention is crime. He won't be able to go to a restaurant without people whispering about it.

In a way, he has disclosed two fatal character flaws: 1) committing the acts themselves, revealing a missing piece in his humanity; 2) being too dumb to realize the risk he was taking, or the way his acts would be perceived.

What he's demonstrated is a kind of Tyson-esque quality, and once he's perceived that way, there's no way of erasing the impression.

 

[Patriot_in_NY]

Re: OT: Vick's toast........... or is he........

Guess he's already been offered a DEAL