OT: Thornton book Darkness to Dynasty

[Joker]

nah...Fnord loves poppers....and trance music

 

[fnordcircle]

I would wager serious dough fordncircle has thorazine in his medicine cabinet.
Probably some lithium as well.
They treat schizophrenia and bipolar disease,respectively.
That being said, he's more in touch with reality than APF.

The nicest thing you've ever said about me.

 

[jimnance]

The nicest thing you've ever said about me.

I'm trying- but it's not easy.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

I would wager serious dough fordncircle has thorazine in his medicine cabinet.
Probably some lithium as well.
They treat schizophrenia and bipolar disease,respectively.
That being said, he's more in touch with reality than APF.

Yeah, I made everything up.

Hey, despite what it says on my birth certificate, I was in fact born in Nairobi.

And, 911, Columbine, Sandy Hook, Parkland, V-Tech, Vegas and Tim McVeigh were all illegal immigrants who came here through Mexico...

 

[jimnance]

Yeah, I made everything up.

Hey, despite what it says on my birth certificate, I was in fact born in Nairobi.

And, 911, Columbine, Sandy Hook, Parkland, V-Tech, Vegas and Tim McVeigh were all illegal immigrants who came here through Mexico...

APF- I'm also an original Pats fan- a lot of what you posted about the Boston/New England Patriots is true.
If you take their history from 1960-2001, no,they were not one of the laughingstocks or doormats of the league.
In 1976, they were the best team in the NFL and should've won their 1st SB.
They had a lot of very good teams. Also a lot of mediocre teams. Really only a few really bad teams, mostly early 90's.
But their original owner was a clown.
If you add it all up, I'd say they were a middle of the pack team over their 1st 40 years.
But you're dead wrong and way off base regarding Lisa Olson. What was done to her was sick.
Fact that many other NFL teams had similar incidents doesn't make it any less sick. Very sad day in Patriots history.

 

[Joker]

The point was the lockeroom post game was a males only sanctuary. She went in doing her job and ran into a bunch of chauvinistic dogs that were pi$$ed off a woman intruded on their "space". The entire league was coming to grips with the changing reality of sport/media melding. Things were moving fast and growing fast...much like technology today...and the prevailing player norms were moving at a much lower pace. Read this excerpt from the NY Times and you'll quickly get the feel for that time and place. Embarrassing. In fact the whole dyamed Kiam ownership debacle was the ultimate in embarrassments.

Patriots and 3 Players Fined in Olson Incident

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

regarding Lisa Olson. What was done to her was sick.
Fact that many other NFL teams had similar incidents doesn't make it any less sick. Very sad day in Patriots history.

You're right. Blatant incompetence, and lack of compassion may be less insidious than abject, direct discrimination, but there's no excuse.

That's not stopping me from ramming "The Giants are a model franchise" and "The Patriots cheat and are repeat offenders" up the asses of those who say it, promote it and believe it.

Is Lisa Olson the Very First Woman To Enter The New England Patriots' Locker Room In History?

If not, then...what's so special or different about her that she was targeted, and nobody else?

Or, are we to just believe the narrative that Mowatt, Timpson and Perryman are lying, remorseless, abusive a**holes? And that the fact they're all black is a coincidence?

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

The point was the lockeroom post game was a males only sanctuary. She went in doing her job and ran into a bunch of chauvinistic dogs that were pi$$ed off a woman intruded on their "space". The entire league was coming to grips with the changing reality of sport/media melding. Things were moving fast and growing fast...much like technology today...and the prevailing player norms were moving at a much lower pace. Read this excerpt from the NY Times and you'll quickly get the feel for that time and place. Embarrassing. In fact the whole dyamed Kiam ownership debacle was the ultimate in embarrassments.

Patriots and 3 Players Fined in Olson Incident

Will McDonough was accused of chauvinism when he questioned the presence of women in the locker room as well as the legitimacy of Olson's allegations; McDonough claimed he was vindicated two years later when other Globe sportswriters acknowledged the presence of holes in Olson's credibility that were overlooked or ignored at the time, but others (Jackie MacMullan?) claimed that the Globe's report showed that the overall atmosphere of sexual harassment was worse than Olson had alleged.

Obviously, I've had trouble including Olson in the large, sad sorority of real female victims who, encouragingly, are getting some kind of voice out of #MeToo

At ESPN, the problems for women run deep - The Boston Globe

 

[Deus Irae]

The point was the lockeroom post game was a males only sanctuary. She went in doing her job and ran into a bunch of chauvinistic dogs that were pi$$ed off a woman intruded on their "space". The entire league was coming to grips with the changing reality of sport/media melding. Things were moving fast and growing fast...much like technology today...and the prevailing player norms were moving at a much lower pace. Read this excerpt from the NY Times and you'll quickly get the feel for that time and place. Embarrassing. In fact the whole dyamed Kiam ownership debacle was the ultimate in embarrassments.

Patriots and 3 Players Fined in Olson Incident

Not wanting women in the men's locker room is not chauvinism. It's common sense.

 

[Joker]

Yes, I agree. That relegates me to the "old neanderthal" demographic. The point is, with the confluence of sports media with ultra masculine sport, the birth of the "she knows as much as any man about the sport!" paradigm was born.Just look at any of the major outlets, NFLN for example...every show has an ubiquitous well coiffed blonde hottie sticking microphones in the face of Ray Lewis cro-magnons getting today's "hot take". I call it it the Entertainment Tonighterization of the once fearsome "They Call Me Assassin" Jack Tatum football league.

 

[jimnance]

Joker- that does not make you an "old neanderthal". I've always been about empowering women, but having them in locker rooms puts them and the players in an awkward spot.
It all started because since their male colleagues were allowed lr access, they were at a competitive disadvantage to get interviews and stories.
But imo, they got it wrong. Should've banned ALL MEDIA, male and female from the lr. Make em wait til all players are dressed and give them a designated area to interview. If you're a good reporter,that shouldn't stop you from doing your job.

 

[PP2]

Thorton, although a good wordsmith and someone who generally understands football pretty well, has become hard to follow on twitter lately because he's become pretty political (his son is in the Marines) and he does those downright distasteful profiles on female teachers caught in sex scandals.

 

[Bill Lee]

Thorton, although a good wordsmith and someone who generally understands football pretty well, has become hard to follow on twitter lately because he's become pretty political (his son is in the Marines) and he does those downright distasteful profiles on female teachers caught in sex scandals.

Yeah, that's his schtick. That's what got him out of the world of writing for free newspapers and being an unknown and into his current life on the margins of fame.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

It all started because since their male colleagues were allowed lr access, they were at a competitive disadvantage to get interviews and stories.
But imo, they got it wrong. Should've banned ALL MEDIA, male and female from the lr. Make em wait til all players are dressed and give them a designated area to interview. If you're a good reporter,that shouldn't stop you from doing your job.

Absolutely. Always thought it was ridiculous for reporters to be in the locker room while players are showering, getting dressed, etc.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Absolutely. Always thought it was ridiculous for reporters to be in the locker room while players are showering, getting dressed, etc.

I'm kind of surprised there wasn't at least one NFL team who recognized the potential pitfalls of female access, and then took action to accommodate and welcome them. I bet if the old AFL were still around, they would have, just because they were doing things the opposite of the NFL - that is, the right way.

Anyway, NOW, People Magazine and the national media were converging like sharks over the incident, and the NFL covered their asses and blamed it all on the Patriots...

Actually, the report indicated that the situation could have been avoided entirely. Two Patriots had complained earlier to James Oldham, the team's director of media relations, and to Patrick Sullivan, the team's general manager, that they believed Olson was, in the players' words, "a looker," someone who stood around the locker room not interviewing anyone.

"Neither Oldham nor Sullivan ever reported back to the players who had complained about Olson. Potentially incendiary rumors were left to explode in the locker room on Sept. 17."

So, there was inappropriate behavior potentially disturbing to players? I mean, make up your minds...

And then there's Olson. Real victims are usually highly reticent and reluctant to come forward, especially at first. But she came out the next day with guns blazing.

 

[everlong]

Buffalo Bills
New York Jets
Baltimore Ravens
Cincinnati Bengals
Cleveland Browns
Baltimore/Indianapolis Colts
Kansas City Chiefs
San Diego Chargers
New York Giants
Philadelphia Eagles
Chicago Bears
Detroit Lions
Green Bay Packers (after 1967)
Atlanta Falcons
New Orleans Saints
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
St. Louis/Arizona Cardinals
Seattle Seahawks

I'm going to half agree. In the cast of some teams like the Packers, Giants, Bears and a few others they had their periods of sucking but they also won titles and didn't have the embarrassment with the losses when they finally reached big games like the Pats did with the largest point differential in SB history to that point followed by a coke scandal afterwards, or your coach bailing after the SB in another, or a coach leaving for Colorado during another.

However some teams lost in high fashion again and again like the Pats. Atlanta Eugene Robinson and the hooker along with 28-3 to name two.

The Vikings 0-4 in SBs not even coming close and then you have the 15-1 team blowing the NFCCG to Atlanta and the Favre pick.

NO had the Aints and lost to a sub .500 Seahawks team and then Stefan Diggs just this year.

Indianapolis/Baltimore with the trucks, all their losses to NE, SD and Pitt with superior talent...........that fake punt that made people forget the butt fumble for a night.

I think being New Englanders we're myopic about the Pats highs and lows though.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

the largest point differential in SB history to that point

Thanks to the coach not starting the right QB...Surpassed deservedly by the Donkeys

a coke scandal

That the other teams in the league were any cleaner is not believable, for me

your coach bailing after the SB

Says more about the coach - and his owner

a coach leaving for Colorado

driven out by that owner

But, not a reflection on the fans or players of the team...

 

[Hyped]

Gonna have read it....I like Thornton's stuff....

 

[everlong]

Thanks to the coach not starting the right QB...Surpassed deservedly by the Donkeys

That the other teams in the league were any cleaner is not believable, for me

Says more about the coach - and his owner

driven out by that owner

But, not a reflection on the fans or players of the team...

When you add up a line item exclusion (excuse) for every item it sort of proves the point that no matter what there was alway an episode of the twilight zone when it came to those Patriot teams.

BTW you could almost say the same for the post 2001 team. Every single year, sometimes in their favor, there's been something. Tuck rule, spygate, deflategate, helmet catch, 4 game suspension, multiple first round picks taken away, staring CB benched for SB, epic 28-3 comeback, epic pick at the GL..........This franchise just has had it all happen.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

When you add up a line item exclusion (excuse) for every item it sort of proves the point that no matter what there was alway an episode of the twilight zone when it came to those Patriot teams.

BTW you could almost say the same for the post 2001 team. Every single year, sometimes in their favor, there's been something. Tuck rule, spygate, deflategate, helmet catch, 4 game suspension, multiple first round picks taken away, staring CB benched for SB, epic 28-3 comeback, epic pick at the GL..........This franchise just has had it all happen.

It's an undeniable fact that everything the Patriots have done since 1970 has been consistently twisted by the rest of the country into something that fits into the "Patriots are not worthy, do not belong, are illegitimate" diatribe.