OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[BobDigital]

i still am trying to wrap my head around fournette having 3 drops against the packers as a running back. him and Jones have stone hands. reunite Brady and James White

That really the only thing the Bucs offense lacks. A back who can catch, as well as blitz pick up at a high level. As it so happens that can be found in every draft class in rounds 3 and 4.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

That really the only thing the Bucs offense lacks. A back who can catch, as well as blitz pick up at a high level. As it so happens that can be found in every draft class in rounds 3 and 4.

Vaughn was their 3rd round pick (76th overall) last draft. He's 5'10' with a 4.51 40 yard dash. He's the guy they want catching passes out in space.

 

[sb1]

Haven't seen @PatsBoy12 here lately. Gotta hand it to him - he read the pulse of this board and created a thread that now has 10K posts and probably over a half million views by the time it fades away. Shows what Brady means to us.

Dunno if I'll be as engaged next season but I also said I wouldn't be this season either and lol wrong.

 

[carmelo15]

They paid AB 1M for 8 games this year. do you think Brady could convince him to play for like 5M? And Godwin 12.5M?

Theres no way Godwin is taking 12.5 a year that’s gonna be a non starter. It’s his first big contract he’s gonna get paid either by Miami or NYK and Tampa should just take the 2nd they could get for him. I think AB takes a friendly deal to play with Brady

After reading about JE's last interview I think he may be willing to go to Tampa next year if the Pats trade or release him. If his knee is ok and he's cheap he can help them. They can't franchise Godwin at 16mil. I think he's their best receiver not named Antonio but Mike Evans is signed and draws double coverage. If they can trade him then maybe they can keep him but he's like a god to them so I don't think they do. That kid they have Johnson looks damn good too. We would take him right now. Pats should ask for him for JE if bucs call for a trade but they wouldn't do that.

Exactly why you don’t overpay Godwin to lose both Barret/Davis. They have Miller/Johnson both excellent players at WR 3 and 4 they have Evans who takes the best corner and gets doubled. Why overpay another WR when you could get AB or Edelman there’s already rumors of AB wanting to stay

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Theres no way Godwin is taking 12.5 a year that’s gonna be a non starter. It’s his first big contract he’s gonna get paid either by Miami or NYK and Tampa should just take the 2nd they could get for him. I think AB takes a friendly deal to play with Brady

Exactly why you don’t overpay Godwin to lose both Barret/Davis. They have Miller/Johnson both excellent players at WR 3 and 4 they have Evans who takes the best corner and gets doubled. Why overpay another WR when you could get AB or Edelman there’s already rumors of AB wanting to stay

I hope they don't re-sign Godwin. He's a good receiver, but there's no way he's worth $16-18M to TB when they have so much talent there.

Scotty Miller is a good deep threat who might be able to round his game more. Tyler Johnson might develop into a pretty good target.

I'd rather see them use that money to extend OJ Howard when his contract expires next year.

They should also look at Adam Humphries, since he'll be cut from Tennessee and will cost peanuts; the Patriots were going to pay him $10M and he's still only 27. Clearly a ****ty fit for Tennessee.

I doubt they'll sign Antonio Brown because he'll (rightfully) look for the most guaranteed money; likely not coming from a Super Bowl contender or from Bruce Arians...only chance is if Brady talks AB into a deal that includes incentives. I hope he's back, but I'm skeptical.

Larry Fitzgerald is so old (38!) but there's the Bruce Arians connection there. Wonder if he could be a one-year guy who plays 10 red zone snaps a game.

 

[Kontradiction]

Haven't seen @PatsBoy12 here lately. Gotta hand it to him - he read the pulse of this board and created a thread that now has 10K posts and probably over a half million views by the time it fades away. Shows what Brady means to us.

Dunno if I'll be as engaged next season but I also said I wouldn't be this season either and lol wrong.

Hope he’s okay. I know he’s dealt with depression in the past and the current climate is very hard on people who are depressed. Last login was January 16. What about @TommyBrady12? Haven’t seen him in a minute either, and he’s probably contributed more than half the posts in this thread.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Hope he’s okay. I know he’s dealt with depression in the past and the current climate is very hard on people who are depressed. Last login was January 16. What about @TommyBrady12? Haven’t seen him in a minute either, and he’s probably contributed more than half the posts in this thread.

It's an echo chamber without @TommyBrady12

 

[Lagaffe_07]

It's an echo chamber without @TommyBrady12

Could he be Yukon Cornelius?

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Theres no way Godwin is taking 12.5 a year that’s gonna be a non starter. It’s his first big contract he’s gonna get paid either by Miami or NYK and Tampa should just take the 2nd they could get for him. I think AB takes a friendly deal to play with Brady

They will not pay him more than the franchise tag but he said in the press that he wants to stay long term so you can get creative and maybe backload the contract to have some cap relief next year.

 

[BobDigital]

Since someone talked about the Bucs cap... When it comes to the Bucs cap here are some obvious answers. Cap space of 28M

Savings.

TE - Cut Howard, Extend Brate. Howard is good. Brate has something he doesn't. Time with Brady and being in his circle of trust. That is just too valuable. The Bucs should 100% be in win now mode next year. As much as it sucks to cut Howard who is a good young TE. But you don't wan to waste money on a guy who won't play much if things go well. Save 6M cutting Howard. Extend Brate 3 years and save 2M next year. These moves save the Bucs 8M 36M cap space left

OL - Extend Donovan Smith for multiple years. So he is paid 11.25 instead of 14.25. Extend Ryan Jenson. His cap hit drops this year from 10M to 7M. Save 6M. 42M cap space left

DE - Cut William Gholston. He's a decent player. But not worth 5.5M and you can try to draft or bargain hunt for a similar lvel guy. Unless he comes back for 3M or so a year, this is their best option. 47.5M cap space left.

That is about as much cap space as they can make reasonably. And I think they should do all of them.

The note worthy people they would like to sign are... Barrett, David, Godwin, Gronk, Suh, Brown. They still need a kicker so Succop is a must resign for them, as they finally found a guy who can save them from 'kicker hell'. They would also certainly like to sign Fournette.

Let's start with the easy things. Succop is locked. Give him 2.5M, and move on. That leaves 45M cap space left.

Gronk and Brown are Brady's guys. They are older but valuable pieces that really put you over the top. They can also be had on a deal. Bucs fans need be comfortable with the fact that neither is leaving. It is all about what their cap hits are. Personally I believe both realize they aren't all pros any more. They just want to play with Tom, and want the respect of a good contract. Brown stays for 5M. Gronk for 6M. Both contracts might carry dead money you need to pay once they leave, but in the big scheme of things it won't be much. 34M cap space left.

This offense will be good no matter what with the OL, weapons and Brady already signed. The defense is the first priority. Resign Suh for a 2 year contract with a dead cap hit next year for 6M this year. Resign David and Barrett for long team contracts that are cheap year 1. for about 22M this year. Something like David getting 9M, 10M 12M 13M 15M and Barrett getting 13M 15M 16M 17M 18M. This will cost you about 28M year 1. 6M cap space left

Sadly when push comes to shove, Godwin has to walk which will hurt. But with Miller and Johnson emerging as good players and Brown, along with those TEs it will be enough to give any team match up issues. Something has to give and Godwin is it sadly. They could decide to keep Godwin if they want, and not bring back Suh, but that would really be a blow to their D and Suh puts that 4 man rush over the top. And they would probably need to make other cuts or be really creative even with that swap. It would really put them against it with no wiggle room and leave them very thin on the DL.

Frankly I believe investing in Godwin at the expense of your D is diminishing returns. Brady can't really do it for 60 minutes anymore like he use to. He has slip ups here and there. Making sure your D is ready to go and able to carry him a bit when needed. It's better than trying to put too much on him against HOF level guys QBs in their primes who will try to match him.

 

[AlexB]

You can’t pay two WR that kind of money and field a championship team, especially when you have competent replacements for him. Even if it’s not AB they can find Edelman through Brady

That assumes the Bucs are going to manage their cap similar to the Patriots, but that's not necessarily going to be the case. If the organization wants to go all in for 2-3 years (and I think they should given the results of this year), they can easily maintain the team and even add to the talent if they wanted to and were ok spending the cash. The bills will eventually come due, but it's more than worth the risk for a team that, before this year, hadn't won a playoff game for 18 years and have the worst franchise winning record.

Just as an example, they could restructure Brady's $25m due next year and spread it out over 5 years by adding 4 voidable years. This should be able to save ~$19m on the cap. Then they can re-sign Godwin, Barrett, and David to backloaded deals using only the savings from this restructure. Michael Thomas, Trey Flowers, Anthony Barr and a lot of other players have signed market setting deals with first year cap hits in the $5-7m range. Not saying the Bucs will or should make all these moves, just that it's 100% possible if they wanted to.

 

[BobDigital]

Let me just say again to be clear. Anyone who thinks Brown is signing anywhere but TB either knows something I don't, or doesn't understand the connection him and Brady have. Brown was out of the league and potentially done with football, TWICE. It was Brady who pounded the table to get him back in the game both times. He offered his home to him for crying out loud. Brown has a bit of a persecution complex, and the only person who always stuck by him and was in his corner the last few years in the NFL was Brady.

There is no way he is walking. Brady won't let it happen. Brady will make his front office cough up the Bucks and Brown will come down from his price out of loyalty. He wants to finish his career and be associated with the GOAT while potentially winning multiple SBs. Other teams will be weary about signing Brown. His market will be very soft in a year with a tight cap. It will get done. I also kind of hope the Bucs can get Edelman over. He deserves to end his career with Tom. I kind of want all 3 of Tom, Gronk an Edelman to ride off into the sunset, and Brown will probably come too, though he isn't in that group the same way.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Since someone talked about the Bucs cap... When it comes to the Bucs cap here are some obvious answers. Cap space of 28M

Savings.

TE - Cut Howard, Extend Brate. Howard is good. Brate has something he doesn't. Time with Brady and being in his circle of trust. That is just too valuable. The Bucs should 100% be in win now mode next year. As much as it sucks to cut Howard who is a good young TE. But you don't wan to waste money on a guy who won't play much if things go well. Save 6M cutting Howard. Extend Brate 3 years and save 2M next year. These moves save the Bucs 8M 36M cap space left

OL - Extend Donovan Smith for multiple years. So he is paid 11.25 instead of 14.25. Extend Ryan Jenson. His cap hit drops this year from 10M to 7M. Save 6M. 42M cap space left

DE - Cut William Gholston. He's a decent player. But not worth 5.5M and you can try to draft or bargain hunt for a similar lvel guy. Unless he comes back for 3M or so a year, this is their best option. 47.5M cap space left.

That is about as much cap space as they can make reasonably. And I think they should do all of them.

The note worthy people they would like to sign are... Barrett, David, Godwin, Gronk, Suh, Brown. They still need a kicker so Succop is a must resign for them, as they finally found a guy who can save them from 'kicker hell'. They would also certainly like to sign Fournette.

Let's start with the easy things. Succop is locked. Give him 2.5M, and move on. That leaves 45M cap space left.

Gronk and Brown are Brady's guys. They are older but valuable pieces that really put you over the top. They can also be had on a deal. Bucs fans need be comfortable with the fact that neither is leaving. It is all about what their cap hits are. Personally I believe both realize they aren't all pros any more. They just want to play with Tom, and want the respect of a good contract. Brown stays for 5M. Gronk for 6M. Both contracts might carry dead money you need to pay once they leave, but in the big scheme of things it won't be much. 34M cap space left.

This offense will be good no matter what with the OL, weapons and Brady already signed. The defense is the first priority. Resign Suh for a 2 year contract with a dead cap hit next year for 6M this year. Resign David and Barrett for long team contracts that are cheap year 1. for about 22M this year. Something like David getting 9M, 10M 12M 13M 15M and Barrett getting 13M 15M 16M 17M 18M. This will cost you about 28M year 1. 6M cap space left

Sadly when push comes to shove, Godwin has to walk which will hurt. But with Miller and Johnson emerging as good players and Brown, along with those TEs it will be enough to give any team match up issues. Something has to give and Godwin is it sadly. They could decide to keep Godwin if they want, and not bring back Suh, but that would really be a blow to their D and Suh puts that 4 man rush over the top. And they would probably need to make other cuts or be really creative even with that swap. It would really put them against it with no wiggle room and leave them very thin on the DL.

Frankly I believe investing in Godwin at the expense of your D is diminishing returns. Brady can't really do it for 60 minutes anymore like he use to. He has slip ups here and there. Making sure your D is ready to go and able to carry him a bit when needed. It's better than trying to put too much on him against HOF level guys QBs in their primes who will try to match him.

They've already picked up Howard's option for 2021. And they shouldn't cut him because he had already developed chemistry with Brady before getting injured.

 

[venecol]

Vaughn was their 3rd round pick (76th overall) last draft. He's 5'10' with a 4.51 40 yard dash. He's the guy they want catching passes out in space.

He lost 2 fumbles (regular + playoffs) and a 50% catch rate (only 10 targets). Fournette had a 77% catch rate (regular) and 82% in playoffs.

 

[venecol]

Could he be Yukon Cornelius?

No way. I'm convinced Timmy is Rob Parker. He must be on vacation.

 

[Kontradiction]

They've already picked up Howard's option for 2021. And they shouldn't cut him because he had already developed chemistry with Brady before getting injured.

Yup. He’s also one of their better YAC guys.

 

[carmelo15]

Let me just say again to be clear. Anyone who thinks Brown is signing anywhere but TB either knows something I don't, or doesn't understand the connection him and Brady have. Brown was out of the league and potentially done with football, TWICE. It was Brady who pounded the table to get him back in the game both times. He offered his home to him for crying out loud. Brown has a bit of a persecution complex, and the only person who always stuck by him and was in his corner the last few years in the NFL was Brady.

There is no way he is walking. Brady won't let it happen. Brady will make his front office cough up the Bucks and Brown will come down from his price out of loyalty. He wants to finish his career and be associated with the GOAT while potentially winning multiple SBs. Other teams will be weary about signing Brown. His market will be very soft in a year with a tight cap. It will get done. I also kind of hope the Bucs can get Edelman over. He deserves to end his career with Tom. I kind of want all 3 of Tom, Gronk an Edelman to ride off into the sunset, and Brown will probably come too, though he isn't in that group the same way.

Agreed and all this would just be perfect to not throw mad money at a second WR when you already have Evans. And ya I hope Edelman can go ride off in the sunset with Gronk/Brady he deserves it

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Let me just say again to be clear. Anyone who thinks Brown is signing anywhere but TB either knows something I don't, or doesn't understand the connection him and Brady have. Brown was out of the league and potentially done with football, TWICE. It was Brady who pounded the table to get him back in the game both times. He offered his home to him for crying out loud. Brown has a bit of a persecution complex, and the only person who always stuck by him and was in his corner the last few years in the NFL was Brady.

There is no way he is walking. Brady won't let it happen. Brady will make his front office cough up the Bucks and Brown will come down from his price out of loyalty. He wants to finish his career and be associated with the GOAT while potentially winning multiple SBs. Other teams will be weary about signing Brown. His market will be very soft in a year with a tight cap. It will get done. I also kind of hope the Bucs can get Edelman over. He deserves to end his career with Tom. I kind of want all 3 of Tom, Gronk an Edelman to ride off into the sunset, and Brown will probably come too, though he isn't in that group the same way.

Everyone always underestimates a free agency market with 32 bidders.

I have no doubt that Brown values Brady and that he’s grateful to him, and I doubt he’ll ever say anything but superlative things about Brady. I’m sure he’d love to continue to playing with Brady.

But this is his last big payday and he has money problems while age and injuries are catching up. A lot of teams have a lot more money and risk to spend than the Bucs.

There’s no way in hell that Tampa, with their roster right now, with their cap situation, and with their depth at WR, would sign him to anything more than a one-year deal for maybe $7-8M and structure of the contract with non-guarantees, incentives, etc.

Tom got his way with AB, but that’s because AB accepted a dirt cheap prove-it contract. Management was not going to side with Tom if it meant paying AB anything close to market.

I think what you’re banking on is AB taking a deep discount. I’m banking on him not doing that. And I don’t blame him.

 

[carmelo15]

Everyone always underestimates a free agency market with 32 bidders.

I have no doubt that Brown values Brady and that he’s grateful to him, and I doubt he’ll ever say anything but superlative things about Brady. I’m sure he’d love to continue to playing with Brady.

But this is his last big payday and he has money problems while age and injuries are catching up. A lot of teams have a lot more money and risk to spend than the Bucs.

There’s no way in hell that Tampa, with their roster right now, with their cap situation, and with their depth at WR, would sign him to anything more than a one-year deal for maybe $7-8M and structure of the contract with non-guarantees, incentives, etc.

Tom got his way with AB, but that’s because AB accepted a dirt cheap prove-it contract. Management was not going to side with Tom if it meant paying AB anything close to market.

I think what you’re banking on is AB taking a deep discount. I’m banking on him not doing that. And I don’t blame him.

the question is why pay Godwin that money when you can pay AB for half the price and afford to keep a guy like Davis as well

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

Theres no way Godwin is taking 12.5 a year that’s gonna be a non starter. It’s his first big contract he’s gonna get paid either by Miami or NYK and Tampa should just take the 2nd they could get for him. I think AB takes a friendly deal to play with Brady




Exactly why you don’t overpay Godwin to lose both Barret/Davis. They have Miller/Johnson both excellent players at WR 3 and 4 they have Evans who takes the best corner and gets doubled. Why overpay another WR when you could get AB or Edelman there’s already rumors of AB wanting to stay

They will pay Godwin even if it takes 17 million dollars. AB is likely gone. I would rather keep Godwin over AB. They can keep David. Those guys are much older. A brady extension frees up about 20 million. Why would they let Godwin go? I don’t see it.