OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

These aren't reaches. Williams went where most draftniks egged him to go.

Metcalf was criticized by a lot of people. There's a reason he dropped to the late 2nd round. Everyone found faults in him.

We need to rewind back to when these players were chosen. People were praising the Patriots for the Harry pick. Go back to the draft 2 years ago. Read all the articles.

Belichick has certainly reached in the past for players like Dowling and Jordan Richards, especially at the DB position. But the players listed above went where they were predicted to go.

No way. Both harry and joejuan had red flags. Both their speed. While joejuan had nice backpedal there was a concern about his ability to play corner at the next level also take into account was it a need for us to draft a position where they where deep? Metcalf played in the sec and the potential was there. Brown is the most ridiculous one. You can’t tell based on the tape that harry was a better wideout than AJ Brown. Some experts where surprised with the harry selection.

 

[farn]

There are plenty on this forum that have asserted that Bill is the GOAT GM. The most recent person that I can recall off the top of my head is @farn, but if you’d like I can find more. The search function on this forum is very good. I’m sure you came to that realization while frantically searching for a post of mine a few weeks ago.

EDIT: LMAO, DoctorDDS, above, just said the same thing.

I do assert BB is the greatest GM in the history of the league. Thanks for the shout out. I base it on drafting, trades, UDFAs, FAs, contracts, team construction, and most of all winning. Imagine what kind of out of this world HC BB would need to be to win an NFL record 6 SB titles with a GM as bad as people on here profess him to be !

Though I must say that Colbert (PIT) could be argued to be better, and I wouldn't object to that. But while BB wins 2:1 of his SBs, Colbert's Steelers don't have nearly the same success. My argument : PIT excels at drafting the flashy skill positions (pass rusher, WR, RB) and fans who only want to skim the surface are enamoured with the glitz. OL and DB depth is maybe a weakness and has bitten Colbert more than once.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Thanks for the list since it reinforces my point. The original post claimed this: "Those SB were brought about by guys who were brought to the team in 2014 or earlier."

So I was looking for guys who played in those Super Bowls and who joined the team after 2014.

I agree but hey were most pieces added to a core of player who was here prior to 2014.

that’s what Bill failed big time. It’s easy to bring pieces along when you have Brady Mans a great cobut what he failed to do is draft the next core of guys.

After 2016-2017 we should have seen arrived the next core of guys that would carry the Patriots for the next 5 to 10 years but we haven’t that’s why we are here.

 

[upstater1]

No way. Both harry and joejuan had red flags. Both their speed. While joejuan had nice backpedal there was a concern about his ability to play corner at the next level also take into account was it a need for us to draft a position where they where deep? Metcalf played in the sec and the potential was there. Brown is the most ridiculous one. You can’t tell based on the tape that harry was a better wideout than AJ Brown. Some experts where surprised with the harry selection.

I was referring to where the scouts had them pegged. Williams went where he was predicted to go. Metcalf wascalled a bad route runner with questionable hands. It's the entire reason he dropped.

I actually went back and read this board the day of the draft. A lot of links to scout assessing Harry for the Patriots. Several links on why Metcalf was a big gamble and potential bust, from scouts. So it wasn't an example of Belichick outsmarting himself. Much of the football world agreed with those picks.

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

I was referring to where the scouts had them pegged. Williams went where he was predicted to go. Metcalf wascalled a bad route runner with questionable hands. It's the entire reason he dropped.

I actually went back and read this board the day of the draft. A lot of links to scout assessing Harry for the Patriots. Several links on why Metcalf was a big gamble and potential bust, from scouts. So it wasn't an example of Belichick outsmarting himself. Much of the football world agreed with those picks.

No. Again the red flags where there with harry compared even to a guy like metcalf. Harry slow off the line. Can he gain separation on corners? If he wasn’t a first round selection he probably would be on his way out.

 

[upstater1]

No. Again the red flags where there with harry compared even to a guy like metcalf. Harry slow off the line. Can he gain separation on corners? If he wasn’t a first round selection he probably would be on his way out.

Go back and read them man. Metcalf had a heap of negativity while Harry was pegged as a 1st rounder in mocks. At Harry's size, if he had speed and was more polished, he would've been a top 10 pick.

No one was surprised that Metcalf went late in the 2nd.

It's easy to actually find all the threads from draft day.

 

[NYCPATS4LIFE]

Go back and read them man. Metcalf had a heap of negativity while Harry was pegged as a 1st rounder in mocks. At Harry's size, if he had speed and was more polished, he would've been a top 10 pick.

No one was surprised that Metcalf went late in the 2nd.

It's easy to actually find all the threads from draft day.

What speed man? 4.53 is good but he didn’t show that speed on tape. He usually made a tough catch with a defender on his hip. Metcalf was a boom or bust project but one thing he wasn’t slow and could get off the line pretty well unlike harry.

 

[upstater1]

What speed man? 4.53 is good but he didn’t show that speed on tape. He usually made a tough catch with a defender on his hip. Metcalf was a boom or bust project but one thing he wasn’t slow and could get off the line pretty well unlike harry.

Huh?

I wrote "If he had speed..."

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Von Miller was hoping for a miscarriage. Will the Broncos release him immediately? What would the righteous Early Bird Bob do?

Broncos Von Miller's Ex-Fiancée Releases Disturbing Text Messages He Allegedly Sent Her While She Was Pregnant

Broncos LB Von Miller is apparently beefing with his ex-fiancee Megan Denise and things are getting ugly. For the past year, Miller and Denise have had a

brobible.com

 

[JMC00]

They probably don't a Super Bowl since 2004.

Ya remember all those clutch catches he had in the 2016 playoffs......

Seriously man don't spew hottakes if you can't remember facts. Gronk was done and on IR before Thanksgiving that year and they still won a SB.

 

[JMC00]

Every team has some pretty good young players. Based on where the Patriots are right now as an organization, they don’t have nearly enough of them, and their drafts/ development need to be far exceeding the league average. I doubt there’s many teams in the league with no QB of the future, sub-.500, on a downward trajectory, who have less young assets and draft capital than the Patriots.

You could run through almost every team with a lottery pick in the draft and find a more favorable core to build around.

What would the righteous Early Bird Bob do?

Hates Belichick. Hates Kraft. Camped out in the Brady thread.

Why are you even a Pats fan at this point?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I do assert BB is the greatest GM in the history of the league. Thanks for the shout out. I base it on drafting, trades, UDFAs, FAs, contracts, team construction, and most of all winning. Imagine what kind of out of this world HC BB would need to be to win an NFL record 6 SB titles with a GM as bad as people on here profess him to be !

Though I must say that Colbert (PIT) could be argued to be better, and I wouldn't object to that. But while BB wins 2:1 of his SBs, Colbert's Steelers don't have nearly the same success. My argument : PIT excels at drafting the flashy skill positions (pass rusher, WR, RB) and fans who only want to skim the surface are enamoured with the glitz. OL and DB depth is maybe a weakness and has bitten Colbert more than once.

Don't you get it? the 6 super bowls are 100% Brady

 

[JMC00]

Matt Cassel
Jimmy Garoppolo (two games)
Jacoby Brissett (two games)

Went 14-6 with them and 1 of the losses was when Brissett had to play with a throwing thumb that needed season ending surgery.

That's a .700 winning percentage.


BUT BUT THIS YEAR

-Newton runs to the outside- Win against Seattle
-Newton plays against KC- Win against KC
-If they were able to practice more than once in 2 weeks- Win against Denver
-Newton tucks the ball into his left arm- Win against Buffalo

7-9 could have been 11-5.

and that's with a roster that you claimed was the worst in the league

 

[ashley]

There are plenty on this forum that have asserted that Bill is the GOAT GM. The most recent person that I can recall off the top of my head is @farn, but if you’d like I can find more. The search function on this forum is very good. I’m sure you came to that realization while frantically searching for a post of mine a few weeks ago.

EDIT: LMAO, DoctorDDS, above, just said the same thing.

I won't comment on the BB GOAT GM comment although I think he is the GOAT of coaches, but I wanted to thank you for the comment on the "search function"...it is the GOAT of all functions...you so eloquently showed that about two years ago when certain posters denied saying something, and you proved them wrong by literally using the "search function" and copying their original posts in a new thread. I have found it very useful when certain posters try and troll and claim they are not trolling. Comes in handy, but enough of my rant, just wanted to say thanks Kontra for bringing up the search function........and how I miss those threads...the best!!!

 

[yukon cornelius]

Newton's pocket presence says he wouldn't last 9 games with all the sacks he would take in Arian's vertical offense.

his pocket presence this year looked lost at times.......was that because "he sucks", or he had mediocre WRs, no preseason in a new offense, was asked to make reads and conduct an offense in a way he was never asked to do before, had zero TE presence, and a revolving door OL (when healthy they were solid, don't get me wrong)......lots of factors go into sacks, or poor throws, bad reads (in this offense was it the WR making the bad read or the QB? if they don't both make the same read, the play falls apart)

point is, there were lots of factors that went into the offensive woes this year.......Cam has poor mechanics, always has.....now that his shoulder is nearing the end of it's shelf life, that has become more glaring.......but to try and sum up the at times bad offense and mediocre at best passing game with "cam sucks" is just a gross misunderstanding of the game

by all accounts stidham has a decent release and plenty of arm strength......yet the GOAT coach and one of the best OC's in the game decided that Cam gave them the best chance to win week in and week out.....go figure?

he drove me absolutely crazy.......and think he IS on the down side of his career for sure......but this wasn't all on him, either

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

BUT BUT THIS YEAR

-Newton runs to the outside- Win against Seattle
-Newton plays against KC- Win against KC
-If they were able to practice more than once in 2 weeks- Win against Denver
-Newton tucks the ball into his left arm- Win against Buffalo

7-9 could have been 11-5.

Yikes.

 

[JMC00]

https://www.google.com/search?q=buccaneers+results

Let me know if you need help clicking on the link.

vs winning teams in 2020


Brady (with a loaded team): 1 win

Belichick (with the worst roster ever in football according to you): 2 wins

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Went 14-6 with them and 1 of the losses was when Brissett had to play with a throwing thumb that needed season ending surgery.

That's a .700 winning percentage.


BUT BUT THIS YEAR

-Newton runs to the outside- Win against Seattle
-Newton plays against KC- Win against KC
-If they were able to practice more than once in 2 weeks- Win against Denver
-Newton tucks the ball into his left arm- Win against Buffalo

7-9 could have been 11-5.

and that's with a roster that you claimed was the worst in the league

Going 14-6 with those guys isn't anything to write home about.

I'm not a "Belichick sucks without Brady" bandwagoner, but some of the ways we praise Bill displays a really low bar.

A LOT of coaches have had 10-12 win seasons QBs that are no better or even worse than Matt Cassel, and rosters that were worse than that 2008 Pats team. Matt Nagy won 12 games with Mitch Tribusky, Rex Ryan got multiple 10-win seasons with Mark F'n Sanchez, Bill Cowher took Neil O'Donnell, Tommy Maddox, and Kordell Stewart to multiple deep playoff runs, etc.

That Matt Cassell year was not impressive, and back then a lot of people (or at least me) were so angry because Brady and the Pats would have easily won that year given how weak the field was (which is ANOTHER reason why going 11-5 with Matt Cassell was not impressive; the schedule was one of the easiest ever).

Again, Belichick is still great, but we need to accept the fact that "winning with any QB" is NOT his strong suit or claim to fame. He's good with general gameplanning and managing/neutralizing opponents, and the subtleties (avoiding penalties, giving teams bad field position with great punting, great special teams coverage) that put his best players in position to make winning plays.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I won't comment on the BB GOAT GM comment although I think he is the GOAT of coaches, but I wanted to thank you for the comment on the "search function"...it is the GOAT of all functions...you so eloquently showed that about two years ago when certain posters denied saying something, and you proved them wrong by literally using the "search function" and copying their original posts in a new thread. I have found it very useful when certain posters try and troll and claim they are not trolling. Comes in handy, but enough of my rant, just wanted to say thanks Kontra for bringing up the search function........and how I miss those threads...the best!!!

And i'm still waiting for him to use the search function to show me all those posters who think Bill is the GOAT of GMs...so far just one, which he already mentioned.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I'll say it again: Bill is very unique and very valuable.

Personnel, coaching, drafting, free agency, gameplans...they are all unified with the Patriots because of Bill. He is able to see all of these things at once...how a guy in college will fit into specific schemes, how different positions are subject to the laws of supply and demand. And most importantly, how football players translate to economic values to the team's salary cap.

Most teams have their coach (football philosophy), their scouts (player talent), their GM (contracts and supply/demand), and their cap guru (internal finances). Belichick oversees all of them and is the final decision maker.

That's why Bill is more valuable than any coach or GM, even though on a one-on-one basis, he might no necessarily provide a huge advantage in coaching, drafting, GM, etc. He isn't necessarily an outlier as a coach or GM, but he's an outlier because he does all these things and it gives the team a huge advantage in its vision, consistency, and results.

Why isn't he an outlier in terms of coaching? Why doesn't he actually give the team a 3 additional wins per season due to them being "better than the sum of their players"? Why doesn't he get consistent and significantly better results at drafting? Have a higher free agency hit rate? Because all of those things are virtually impossible. It's like asking why a hedge fund manager doesn't outperform every other hedge fund manager by a large amount month after month.