OT: Official 2020 Tompa Bay Gronkaneers Thread

[Hammer of Thor]

I was going by won/lost %.

32 TB .386
31 Arizona .423
30 Jags and Atlanta .441
28 Cincy .448
27 NYJ .449

Wow, I didn’t realize it was that low. It gets even crazier, as the 13 years under Tony Dungy and Jon Gruden look like a freaking oasis: 111-97 (.534) with the one title. Absent those two guys, their winning percentage is .323 in the other 31 seasons. Averaging 5-11 every year.

Yeech. Yeah, they’re my undisputed #2, and a good argument can be made for #1.

 

[PatsBoy12]

"Shameful"? Hmm.

I see very little celebration of the end of TB's career - basically no one is saying that.

I see some people who feel validated and satisfied seeing TB12 leave New England (because he felt the team wasn't prioritizing his success) only to go to Arians/Tampa and struggle in the first game of the season.

A lot of people (myself included) felt that New England gave him the best shot to win games and have success ... I will continue to believe that, however that are a lot of games left to be played.

If that's all you see, then you haven't been through much of the thread. If what you stated was all there was, I, being someone who is mostly objective about it, wouldn't see much issue. But what I've read is more than that. But to each his own. I respect your opinion.

 

[upstater1]

TB12 and BB were the perfect match. Driven, focused, demanding individuals who care(d) about winning.

At some point recently, TB12 lost the "win at all costs" thread and decided he wanted to play in a environment that was more personally fulfilling, and would allow him to pass a lot while being surrounded by loads of receiving talent. That's not to say that TB12 no longer cares about winning at all, but if winning was truly his #1 priority he would've stayed in New England.

When you look at the holistic picture, including coaching and the defense, it's clear that the Patriots/Belichick give him (and any QB) a better chance of winning more games than does Tampa/Arians.

I really think TB12 is going to regret this decision. Still a lot of the season in front of us, but you don't go from Belichick to Arians and not experience a culture shock and a lot of frustration.

It wasn't a self-centered decision at all. First, the Patriots didn't want him any more. That was clear, no? I mean, when you want a guy coming off 3 stellar seasons, you offer him more than one season at 2/3rd of the going rate.

Second, it was clear the Patriots were not going to upgrade on offense. Brady assessed that not only did they not want him, but he would more or less go through the same struggling season he had last year.

 

[upstater1]

Him selling BS medicine **** with Guerrero for years (at an expensive price, no less) is clear evidence, to me of course, that i would not like to talk to Tom Brady in person at lenght

He does sound like an awesome teammate tho, ngl

Really, for that? Doesn't bother me at all. Do you know how many billions are in the supplement market? It's expensive stuff. And what they sell is just the typical stuff you see in that market.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I mean, when you want a guy coming off 3 stellar seasons, you offer him more than one season at 2/3rd of the going rate.

Brady came off of 3 stellar seasons? LOL

 

[upstater1]

Wow, I didn’t realize it was that low. It gets even crazier, as the 13 years under Tony Dungy and Jon Gruden look like a freaking oasis: 111-97 (.534) with the one title. Absent those two guys, their winning percentage is .323 in the other 31 seasons. Averaging 5-11 every year.

Yeech. Yeah, they’re my undisputed #2, and a good argument can be made for #1.

Unlike most expansion teams, Tampa came into the league at a time where they weren't allowed to take unprotected players from other teams, nor did they get to draft w/ 2x as many picks as future expansion teams. Tampa was notoriously bad their first decade. And this was a time before widespread FAs switching teams so they didn't even improve. 9 of their first 14 seasons had 5 wins or less!

 

[upstater1]

Brady came off of 3 stellar seasons? LOL

Yes, he did.
What didn't you like about 3 Super Bowls and 2 Super Bowl victories?

 

[ViperGTS]

Yes, he did.
What didn't you like about 3 Super Bowls and 2 Super Bowl victories?

SBs are team wins. Last 2 years for sure have not been stellar. No matter what the media wants to to believe. There are some in the media spewing facts but they are few and far between.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

Yes, he did.
What didn't you like about 3 Super Bowls and 2 Super Bowl victories?

He was not stellar in 2018 or 2019. It was the defense that won the SB in 2018 and his performance that playoff year was hardly stellar. His last great year was 2017. And if he was stellar, there would have been more than 2 teams trying to sign him.

 

[JayNM]

Really, for that? Doesn't bother me at all. Do you know how many billions are in the supplement market? It's expensive stuff. And what they sell is just the typical stuff you see in that market.

Yes, for that. Yes, i have an estimate. I also dont buy it.

 

[JMC00]

Tampa is favored by 10, but by all means, believe that Carolina is more likely to win.

While I think the Bucs should win, there are some things that are a concern

-Godwin in protocol- not ideal if he is out especially if Evans still isn't 100%.

-Add in Arians with that "Evans must get at least 10 targets a game" stuff, just comes off like he's gonna gameplan to feed Evans, which if you're a Pats fan you realize that has been an achilles' heel for Brady sometimes, I flashback to the jest game in 2013 when Brady targeted Gronk like 20 times in his first game back from his injury the prior season and Pats lost to a f**king Geno Smith jest team

-Arians and the coaching staff isn't going suddenly become Bill Belichick and his staff because he lost a game with Brady as his QB (i.e. no "We're onto Carolina" type mentality ) and he's already shown pretty much immediately throwing people under the bus, Brady included

-Brady's play in the first week gives pause to the "his problem last year was the receiving group". Garbage time helped make his stats look better take away the 85 yards and TD he got with 5 minutes left down 34-17 and his line was 15/28 for 160 1 TD 2 INT and the 1 TD OJ Howard was so open even Nathan Peterman could have thrown it.

-That Tampa OL is a liability until they prove they aren't

-Carolina has the ability to pound the ball & keep the chains moving and keep Brady on the sideline with McCaffery, granted Tampa owned McCaffery last year but it's a new year

-While Carolina has an inexperienced nfl coaching staff they have Al Holcomb on their defensive staff, he's notable because he has history on teams that have beaten Brady. He was with the Giants in 2011 as a defensive assistant and with the Panthers in 2013 & 2017 as a linebacker coach. He was also with the Browns last year so he has recent history game planning vs Brady. Not saying this guy is some defensive mastermind or something but a guy that has some history and knowledge definitely helps prepping for this week.

 

[upstater1]

He was not stellar in 2018 or 2019. It was the defense that won the SB in 2018 and his performance that playoff year was hardly stellar. His last stellar year was 2017.

WRONG!

He was unbelievably good in those games.

Game 1: 34-44 for 343 yards. Team scored 35 points in the first half. Brady was stellar.
Game 2: 30-46 for 348 yards. 37 points AT Kansas City. Brady was clutch in the final moments, went 3-4 for 56 yards to give them the go ahead TD with 30 seconds left, and in OT he threw for 60 yards. GREAT performance.
Game 3: he did have a bad quarter, but in he was stellar the rest of the game, especially the 4th quarter when he lead the team on two 70 yard drives, and made a perfect throw to seal the game.

This playoff performance was arguably just as good as the previous years when he gave the 2nd greatest QB performance in Super Bowl history, 2nd to his performance of the prior year.

Only a delusional Patriots fan could complain about 3 Super Bowls in 3 years and 2 of those were victories. Absurd to say 2018 wasn't stellar. You have a rude awakening in the future when it comes to QB play, because I guarantee you, it will not be as good as 2018 for a very very very long time.

 

[upstater1]

Yes, for that. Yes, i have an estimate. I also dont buy it.

Eh, it's helpful. Believe it or not, top doctors prescribe the same kind of stuff.

 

[upstater1]

Garbage time helped make his stats look better take away the 85 yards and TD he got with 5 minutes left down 34-17 and his line was 15/28 for 160 1 TD 2 INT and the 1 TD OJ Howard was so open even Nathan Peterman could have thrown it.

This isn't an argument that he played well last week, he was clearly not in sync. But you can't take away yards like that because it's just as easy to then have to account for the 4 long bomb DPIs they got when he threw precise passes to receivers way downfield.

 

[upstater1]

SBs are team wins. Last 2 years for sure have not been stellar. No matter what the media wants to to believe. There are some in the media spewing facts but they are few and far between.

I put up the stats. He had great stats in those 3 Super Bowl years I'm referencing.

 

[sb1]

WRONG!

He was unbelievably good in those games.

Game 1: 34-44 for 343 yards. Team scored 35 points in the first half. Brady was stellar.

Brady was good. Sony was better. 24 for 129 and 3 TD. That's a 5.4 YPC clip. Obviously the run threat opened things up for Brady.

Game 2: 30-46 for 348 yards. 37 points AT Kansas City. Brady was clutch in the final moments, went 3-4 for 56 yards to give them the go ahead TD with 30 seconds left, and in OT he threw for 60 yards. GREAT performance.

Brady was very clutch. The defense shut out Mahomes in the first half and that helps. Sony had a lot to do with that win too.
Also Brady was very lucky at times in that game too like Dee Ford being offside.

Game 3: he did have a bad quarter, but in he was stellar the rest of the game

Not really. That was a defensive showcase and Edelman almost singlehandedly was the offense.

And Brady was dreadful in 2019, making the decision to move on pretty much justifiable at this point.

 

[PatriotsReign]

The joy some of you guys are having celebrating the eventual career end of the greatest quarterback the league has ever known....that did it on our team over 20 years is shameful. 20 years! Its not even sad for you. Instead you laugh at any mistake he makes and can't wait for the next one. Such hollow and selfish "fans" you were. I can't take any of your cheering for the Pats seriously now. Next week or next year you'll turn on whomever isn't entertaining you sufficiently anymore. How hollow.

How each one of us views fandom is different for everyone. Some cheer individuals while others cheer the uniform. Either one is ok

This is a New England Patriots fan website, not a Tom Brady site. Personally, I will forever be a Tom Brady fan. But only in a Patriots uniform.

Had Brady been on fire last week, I would have loved watching it. But he wasn’t so I was happy Tampa Bay fans were very sad last week.

I can root for Brady but I highly doubt anyone here is rooting for his team....and that includes you.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

WRONG!

He was unbelievably good in those games.

Game 1: 34-44 for 343 yards. Team scored 35 points in the first half. Brady was stellar.
Game 2: 30-46 for 348 yards. 37 points AT Kansas City. Brady was clutch in the final moments, went 3-4 for 56 yards to give them the go ahead TD with 30 seconds left, and in OT he threw for 60 yards. GREAT performance.
Game 3: he did have a bad quarter, but in he was stellar the rest of the game, especially the 4th quarter when he lead the team on two 70 yard drives, and made a perfect throw to seal the game.

This playoff performance was arguably just as good as the previous years when he gave the 2nd greatest QB performance in Super Bowl history, 2nd to his performance of the prior year.

Only a delusional Patriots fan could complain about 3 Super Bowls in 3 years and 2 of those were victories. Absurd to say 2018 wasn't stellar. You have a rude awakening in the future when it comes to QB play, because I guarantee you, it will not be as good as 2018 for a very very very long time.

Who's complaining about the Super Bowls? You said he was STELLAR his last 3 years in NE. He was not. He was only stellar in 2017. In the 2018 playoffs, he had 2 TDs and 3 INTs, which is hardly "stellar" and doesn't even come close to his 2016 and 2017 playoff performances. And if he was "stellar" in Super Bowl 53, he would have been named MVP. Did he make clutch throws and lead TD drives during that playoff run? Sure.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

I put up the stats. He had great stats in those 3 Super Bowl years I'm referencing.

You cherry picked your stats for the 2018 playoffs

 

[FalconHeavy]

That's fine, but this forum is divided into subforums for a reason.

What a Sisyphean task that is: searching in a subforum. Woe is he who has to click on a different link!

This thread hasn't prevented that.

Look, this thread is going to be there in Pats Forum whether you like it or not until mods decide to move it. There is no point arguing about it and I would advice you to take this up with mods if this one thread bothers you so much.

I'm done arguing and will go back to reading threads that "I'm interested in".