OT: Mangini's twisted message

[PonyExpress]

Mangini has been celebrated in the NY press for his motivational techniques, which have focused on the use of boxing clips before games to illustrate lessons to his Jet players. The most notable example was the Pryor Arguello 1982 fight, considered the fight of the year and the decade by some. But there is a twisted subtext to this fight that the fawning NY media has glossed over- a twisted subtext of which the cerebral Mangini, a boxing buff, must have been aware. Pryor/Arguello I is among the most controversial bouts in history, as fellow fight fans know. After dominating early, Pryor was victimized by some devastating punches in rds 11-12. After the 12th, his trainer famously was heard on TV asking for "the bottle that I mixed" to be given to the wobbly and shaken Pryor. This bottle, laced with an unknown stimulant illegally introduced into the ring, provided Pryor with a noticeable "kick" in the 13th and 14th rds, enabling him to overcome the devastating punishment and TKO Arguello in the 14th rd. After the fight, against boxing regulations, no drug test was administered to Pryor. When the public became aware of the scandal, the outrage was significant enough to force the governing body to schedule an immediate rematch.

So what message did Mangini, a boxing buff who knew the controversial nature of that fight, really send to his players by making Pryor the team mascot and showing them Pryor/Arguello I as motivation? On the surface, Mangini can claim he was merely showing an example of a staggered champion shaking off adversity with heart and grit, rising from the ashes to claim victory. But IMO Mangini also showed that fight to illustrate that the Jet coaching staff and players have a pact to do whatever is necessary, illegal or not, to win. After the Steelers' team doctor was recently embroiled in the HGH scandal, I wonder how far desperation to compete with the Pats has driven the Jet organization to win at all costs, like their hero, Pryor. What if a Jet player is unwilling to go to the lengths Pryor went to win? Is that acceptable with the Jet' hierarchy? What if a trainer is unwilling to "mix a bottle" to give Jet players a "kick"? Is that acceptable? These are tricky, twisted messages sent by Mangini, and in an era of performance enhancing controversy, IMO the Jet organization's fascination with that fight demands scrutiny.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

I'm really looking forward to Training Camp starting up.

 

[Canada's #1 Pats Fan]

Lets hope it is Vilma who 'refuses to win' at all costs and is released into the waiting arms of BB.

 

[Tunescribe]

You make an interesting point about the Jets' desperation. They will have a good team but I don't see them ever dominating the Pats while BB is here and Brady stays healthy. It's got to be frustrating for them to be in the role of perennial also-ran. Man-vagina already has done some questionable things; it wouldn't surprise me to see more "dirty tricks" from that organization as time goes on.

 

[PittPatriot]

The Patriots success is something to celebrate, but I do not think it drove some INTERNIST on the Steeler's staff to be involved with an hGH scandal.
Teams have many doctors who are affiliated...and I can tell you that no INTERNIST is going to be the primary guy who calls the shots on performance enhancing drugs. Maybe he is the scapegoat and the REAL Steelers staff, coaches, etc are involved - who knows? In the end, the Steelers are a class organization who do not have a history of such things.

Finally, the drive for success is what leads teams/players to these extremes...not the jealously of one team's dynasty status. We are lucky no one made a really big deal of Brady's BALCO connection...not that anyone should have because there is no smoke or fire there. I give the Steelers the same benefit of the doubt on this issue.

As for the Jets...I hate them, but don't think Mangini stoops to cheating. If he does as you say, do you think he did it as the Pats DC or DB coach? Is there a coincidence that he is very close to Rodney (recently voted Mr. Cheap-shot Artist of the NFL) and his team's tactics required an NFL rule change? I don't believe this things, but I thing we as Pats fans should respect the overall ethics of other teams because we are just like them.

 

[zippo59]

The Patriots success is something to celebrate, but I do not think it drove some INTERNIST on the Steeler's staff to be involved with an hGH scandal.
Teams have many doctors who are affiliated...and I can tell you that no INTERNIST is going to be the primary guy who calls the shots on performance enhancing drugs. Maybe he is the scapegoat and the REAL Steelers staff, coaches, etc are involved - who knows? In the end, the Steelers are a class organization who do not have a history of such things.

Finally, the drive for success is what leads teams/players to these extremes...not the jealously of one team's dynasty status. We are lucky no one made a really big deal of Brady's BALCO connection...not that anyone should have because there is no smoke or fire there. I give the Steelers the same benefit of the doubt on this issue.

As for the Jets...I hate them, but don't think Mangini stoops to cheating. If he does as you say, do you think he did it as the Pats DC or DB coach? Is there a coincidence that he is very close to Rodney (recently voted Mr. Cheap-shot Artist of the NFL) and his team's tactics required an NFL rule change? I don't believe this things, but I thing we as Pats fans should respect the overall ethics of other teams because we are just like them.

Actually it is believed the great Steelers teams of the 70's all participated in heavy steroid use.

And people did try to make a big deal out of the Brady and Bonds trainer thing. Felger was actually excited when he was talking about it, trying to make it sound like a big deal, and ESPN spent a good amount fo time on it. It was just that it was complete non story so you can only take it so far.

 

[PonyExpress]

I'm really looking forward to Training Camp starting up.

Your insight is always impressive.

 

[amazinPats]

Mangini has been celebrated in the NY press for his motivational techniques, which have focused on the use of boxing clips before games to illustrate lessons to his Jet players. The most notable example was the Pryor Arguello 1982 fight, considered the fight of the year and the decade by some. But there is a twisted subtext to this fight that the fawning NY media has glossed over- a twisted subtext of which the cerebral Mangini, a boxing buff, must have been aware. Pryor/Arguello I is among the most controversial bouts in history, as fellow fight fans know. After dominating early, Pryor was victimized by some devastating punches in rds 11-12. After the 12th, his trainer famously was heard on TV asking for "the bottle that I mixed" to be given to the wobbly and shaken Pryor. This bottle, laced with an unknown stimulant illegally introduced into the ring, provided Pryor with a noticeable "kick" in the 13th and 14th rds, enabling him to overcome the devastating punishment and TKO Arguello in the 14th rd. After the fight, against boxing regulations, no drug test was administered to Pryor. When the public became aware of the scandal, the outrage was significant enough to force the governing body to schedule an immediate rematch.

I was a huge Arguello fan back then and I couldn't believe my outrage when Panama Lewis gave Pryor a shot of Schnapps. Pryor later admitted that it was Schapps. On the other hand, I saw the fight replayed on ESPN classic and I'm not so sure that the shot of Schnapps led to Pryor's victory. Arguello landed his best shots, and Pryor was able to take them. The fight was basically over after that. Pryor was just too big, strong and energetic for Arguello. In retrospect, I don't think that bottle made much difference. Pryor was a great fighter too.

 

[Kontradiction]

You make an interesting point about the Jets' desperation. They will have a good team but I don't see them ever dominating the Pats while BB is here and Brady stays healthy. It's got to be frustrating for them to be in the role of perennial also-ran. Man-vagina already has done some questionable things; it wouldn't surprise me to see more "dirty tricks" from that organization as time goes on.

Well, he did learn from the best. A lot of teams and coaches around the league consider BB the master of trickery.

 

[TripleOption]

In the end, the Steelers are a class organization who do not have a history of such things.

The Steelers are considered the team that first utilized steroids in the NFL.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Your insight is always impressive.

Box always has a lot on the ball, and I'm with him on this!

 

[JoeSixPat]

We are lucky no one made a really big deal of Brady's BALCO connection...not that anyone should have because there is no smoke or fire there.

I don't see how luck had anything to do with anyone making a big deal about a BALCO "connection" when there was none.

Just to recap on the "connection" for everyone - before word of the Bonds/BALCO/Steriods issue was known, Brady - a SF Bay area native - called Greg Anderson, a respected SF Bay area trainer, to inquire about working out in the offseason.

They spoke on the phone. Once. And never again.

Unless someone thinks that Anderson somehow figured out a way to force steroids on unsuspecting athletes via the telephoe there's not much of a "connection" to discuss.

I will say that I think the NFL has probably been as bad or worse than MLB in terms of steroids and HGH (in terms of the league turning a blind eye). Of course, the nature of the two games makes it somewhat less scandalous given the team vs. individual aspects of the NFL compared to MLB. Adding 20 feet to a deep fly ball changes it from a fly out to a home run - and .025 in batting average can be HUGE in MLB. In the NFL having a OL on HGH go up against a DE or LB makes for a much less scandalous situation as the game truly is a team sport.

That doesn't justify cheating but does illustrate why steroids in MLB have become such a big deal compared to the NFL.

 

[LiveShot]

Did Lyle Alzado play for the Steelers? I think not, the Raider's of that era were into the juice.

 

[Patriotic Fervor]

Did Lyle Alzado play for the Steelers? I think not, the Raider's of that era were into the juice.

Alzado spent most of his career with Denver, but he did play for the Raiders, too.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm really looking forward to Training Camp starting up.

I can't believe that Training camp is so far away..... *UGH*.... The off-season is too long... there is too much time between the draft and such....

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Box always has a lot on the ball, and I'm with him on this!

From evading Indians during cross country mail delivery to dodging black helicopters on I-95, a sad situation for an American icon.

 

[PittPatriot]

The Steelers are considered the team that first utilized steroids in the NFL.

I actually did not know that...I always thought it was the Raiders.
I guess I think of the Rooneys, Noll, and Cowher as being classy for the most part. I am not even sure how taboo 'roids were back then. Regardless, I should not make a historical comment without knowing the facts.

 

[PittPatriot]

I don't see how luck had anything to do with anyone making a big deal about a BALCO "connection" when there was none.

I agree fully. However, when it comes to PEDs, just the slightest mention can be perceived as negative and may lead to some reporter running away with it.

Look what happened to Big Papi last week. Ortiz made an off the cuff (innocent) remark and some reporter printed the headline 'Ortiz unwitting steroid user.' (or something like that).

 

[PatsSteve1]

Mangini has been celebrated in the NY press for his motivational techniques, which have focused on the use of boxing clips before games to illustrate lessons to his Jet players. The most notable example was the Pryor Arguello 1982 fight, considered the fight of the year and the decade by some.

* No thanks for the memory - I was a big fan of Arguello and that fight really pissed me off. There were some really good fights in those years and a lot of good boxers around then. Not like that pathetic Mayweather vs. Golden Boy fight a couple of weeks ago which should have been a draw because niether one deserved it. Is this a football board? -

 

[PonyExpress]

Mangini has been celebrated in the NY press for his motivational techniques, which have focused on the use of boxing clips before games to illustrate lessons to his Jet players. The most notable example was the Pryor Arguello 1982 fight, considered the fight of the year and the decade by some.

* No thanks for the memory - I was a big fan of Arguello and that fight really pissed me off. There were some really good fights in those years and a lot of good boxers around then. Not like that pathetic Mayweather vs. Golden Boy fight a couple of weeks ago which should have been a draw because niether one deserved it. Is this a football board? -

I recently rewatched Hearns Leonard I, and Hagler vs "The Beast" Mugabi. These were tremendous fighters laying their lives on the line in the purest form of sport. Mayweather De La Hoya was not a fight, it was a partnership to steal money from the public.