OT: Jets Owner: Revis unlikely to sign before start of season

[Gunnails]

Re: Jets Owner: Revis Unlikely to Sign Before Start of Season

I blame the Jets for a number of reasons:

1.) They have been active players in overpaying to acquire other teams; talent in free agency. Bart Scott got an above market deal, so did Alan Faneca, so did Calvin Pace.
2.) The Jets have a history of at least allegations of trating players under contract like crap when it comes to contract negotiations.
3.) The Jets made a big deal about getting Revis under a new contract. If they weren't going to make him an offer that didn't have at least $30-40 million in guarantees, they shouldn't have opened their mouths.
4.) Rex Ryan has talked up Revis far too much. He says that he is the best CB in the NFL. He says Revis is as important to the Jets as Brady is to the Pats or Manning is to the Colts. Why wouldn't Revis want to be paid like the top paid CB in the league?

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I respectfululy disagree with most of this.

1. Jets had to pay these players what they wanted if the Jets wanted them, they were free agents, I view it as they paid the market rate.

2. Maybe they do maybe they don't. DBrick said he was happy.

3. This is where things get fuzzy about what you can and can not gurantee. Take a close look at the contracts being signed around the league, the receiver in Houston C Johnson, Denver LB Dumerville, DBrick, etc.. At first glance they appear huge, then you find that very little is gurranteed.

4. Revis was the best in the leaguye last season, he didn't need Rex to tell him that. Sure it streghthens his position that Rex says he is his best player ever, Just doesen't mean he deserves 15 million a year.

Our G contract situation is giving you pleasure? Oh woe is us!

How will we live without our lockdown Mankin's Island!

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Point taken, then again Brady deserves the best protection attainable.

 

[efin98]

Re: Jets Owner: Revis Unlikely to Sign Before Start of Season

It's complicated, 30% rule, unknown situation with the CBA, potential lock out looming, add in a corner back/GM that mite be unreasonable. Adds up to a real bummer of a situation for all involved, most importantly me.

I stated a week ago, after doing my due diligence that Revis would be inked to a new deal by tommorrow. Seems I was wrong.

I am not upset with Revis or the Jets, just disapointed with the way business is done in the NFL.

Don't blame the NFL for this...Revis could have waited and done this after the CBA was signed but he chose to see the dollar signs this year.

 

[Gunnails]

Re: Jets Owner: Revis unlikely to sign before start of season

An OL Guard lost vs a lockdown CB.....hmmmmmm

I think I'd rather have the Pats problem ..........

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I would also. But that misses the point I was trying to make.

 

[VinnyPatrollie]

Re: Jets Owner: Revis Unlikely to Sign Before Start of Season

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Yes

I must admit I am getting pleasure out of the Mankins situation also.

Well, you DO seem happy.....

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Jets Owner: Revis Unlikely to Sign Before Start of Season

ESPN's quoting Johnson as saying that he don't think Revis will play this year, period.

Honestly, all of this just makes me want to know what, specifically, the Jets are offering. We keep hearing vague stuff like the Jets are offering 'very little' guaranteed money, and that Revis wants $15M AAV, but without knowing what the Jets are offering... eh. Is that info out there but I just haven't seen it?

 

[Gunnails]

Re: Jets Owner: Revis Unlikely to Sign Before Start of Season

ESPN's quoting Johnson as saying that he don't think Revis will play this year, period.

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Oh Really, that doesen't sound good I heard earlier that Johnson said he did not expect Revis to be renegotiated by the first game.

Sounds like Woody is ready to play some hardball, this could get interesting if Woody grows a pair.

 

[efin98]

Re: Jets Owner: Revis Unlikely to Sign Before Start of Season

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Oh Really, that doesen't sound good I heard earlier that Johnson said he did not expect Revis to be renegotiated by the first game.

Sounds like Woody is ready to play some hardball, this could get interesting if Woody grows a pair.

NFL training camp: New York Jets not optimistic after Darrelle Revis camp's proposal - ESPN New York

Expanding on that sentiment, Johnson told ESPN's Jeremy Schaap Monday that he doesn't expect Revis to play for the Jets this season.

"My gut feeling is, I would say no," Johnson said.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Jets Owner: Revis Unlikely to Sign Before Start of Season

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Oh Really, that doesen't sound good I heard earlier that Johnson said he did not expect Revis to be renegotiated by the first game.

Sounds like Woody is ready to play some hardball, this could get interesting if Woody grows a pair.

I thought I misheard, so I rewound it on my DVR and that's definitely what they said. They're also mentioning the same thing online:

NFL training camp: New York Jets not optimistic after Darrelle Revis camp's proposal - ESPN New York

Expanding on that sentiment, Johnson told ESPN's Jeremy Schaap Monday that he doesn't expect Revis to play for the Jets this season.

"My gut feeling is, I would say no," Johnson said.


This is ESPN that we're talking about, though, so who knows if it's even close to factual. I never trust ESPN to accurately represent reality...

Actually, nevermind, I just saw the video clip of the interview. Woody said exactly said... damn.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Jets Owner: Revis Unlikely to Sign Before Start of Season

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I respectfululy disagree with most of this.

1. Jets had to pay these players what they wanted if the Jets wanted them, they were free agents, I view it as they paid the market rate.

You look what they got paid and they were above market deals. Maybe not grossly above market, but above market none the less.

2. Maybe they do maybe they don't. DBrick said he was happy.

It is generally believed after Ferguson signed his contract that Ferguson and his agent might be morons. Why not ask Washington, Kendall, Coles, and Baker what they think.

3. This is where things get fuzzy about what you can and can not gurantee. Take a close look at the contracts being signed around the league, the receiver in Houston C Johnson, Denver LB Dumerville, DBrick, etc.. At first glance they appear huge, then you find that very little is gurranteed.

A market deal for Revis taking out Al Davis' stupidity would still guarantee $30-40 million for Revis.

The Titans didn't ever say they planned to give Chris Johnson a deal. They actually said the opposite. Johnson threatened to hold out and the Titans gave him a bone to get him into camp. Totally different than Revis.

The Broncos didn't say that giving Dumerville a deal was their top priority of the offseason either. The Jets didn't say that with Ferguson. In both cases, the teams were hopeful that a deal would get done, but didn't put a priority on it.

You can look at Patrick Willis as an example of a marquee player who did get guaranteed money this offseason and avoided the 30% rule by structuring it in a way that Willis' salary didn't go up by 30%. Willis is closer to Revis' situation than Dumerville or Ferguson.

4. Revis was the best in the leaguye last season, he didn't need Rex to tell him that. Sure it streghthens his position that Rex says he is his best player ever, Just doesen't mean he deserves 15 million a year.

It means he deserves to be the highest paid player at his position and that is $15 million a year. Revis could argue the Jets feel he is a franchise player the caliber of Brady and Manning and ask for $20 million a year using Ryan's own words against him.

 

[ahmed]

Re: Jets Owner: Revis Unlikely to Sign Before Start of Season

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Yes

I must admit I am getting pleasure out of the Mankins situation also.

Position importance & skill says your situation is worse... but all it takes is one defensive player to slip through the offensive line and catch Brady awkwardly and we are screwed. So time will tell as it always does.

 

[ahmed]

Re: Jets Owner: Revis Unlikely to Sign Before Start of Season

It means he deserves to be the highest paid player at his position and that is $15 million a year. Revis could argue the Jets feel he is a franchise player the caliber of Brady and Manning and ask for $20 million a year using Ryan's own words against him.

That's way too literate though... anyone in their right mind knows no CB is worth that much and just because Al was crazy enough to shell that kind of money out does not mean it becomes the norm

 

[alamo]

Re: Jets Owner: Revis unlikely to sign before start of season

An OL Guard lost vs a lockdown CB.....hmmmmmm

I think I'd rather have the Pats problem ..........

I seem to be the only one to disagree. If Revis is out there are ways for the Jets to to compensate, and CB failures can still be made up for by the offense. If Mankins is out you are significantly endangering Brady who is more important to the Pats than Revis is to the Jets.

If he does not report tomorrow and he signs a deal, let's say two weeks from now, does he still lose the year of eligibility or can the Jets wave it or does it become irrelevant at that point?

Irrelevant because the accrued year only affects free agency. Relevant, now, because that means Revis will absolutely not accept less of a contract than it would take him to get to UFA.

Not sure of the reason, but I know that the Jets have him under contract for three more years and if he doesn't report to camp tomorrow, the Green Beans retain his rights for a fourth year.

I don't think so, I think week 10 is the deadline for extending the actual contract, if he is still out then his contract is "tolled" (extended). The August deadline is for an accrued year not the contract.

If anyone loses leverage its Revis. Id make him play for what he signed for or let him stay home and cry

Noone does that. It doesn't make sense from a business perspective. If he's really lost to them they will trade him for what they can get. The Jets are usually on the other end of that equation, that's how they got Braylon Edwards and Santonio Holmes.

That's way too literate though... anyone in their right mind knows no CB is worth that much and just because Al was crazy enough to shell that kind of money out does not mean it becomes the norm

According to PFT Champ Bailey actually makes more (has a higher cap number) this season.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Re: Jets Owner: Revis unlikely to sign before start of season

I don't think so, I think week 10 is the deadline for extending the actual contract, if he is still out then his contract is "tolled" (extended). The August deadline is for an accrued year not the contract.

Right- my understanding of the situation (could def. be wrong) is that this just means that when he buys out his contract next year--the Jets then have the option to buy back 2011 and 2012 at $5M and $9M respectively--he will technically be a RFA instead of an UFA, because he'll still have only 3 accrued years towards FA.

In short, this doesn't mean that the Jets hold onto his rights for an extra year: it means that he won't accrue a year towards FA eligibility, so he'll be an RFA instead of an UFA. As a result, the Jets may be less inclined to exercise their option of he buys his contract out, because they can let him be an RFA and just tender him at 1ST+3RD value, then franchise him the next year, whereas if he'd been an UFA they'd virtually have to buy him back and let him become an unfranchisable UFA after 2012.

In addition, I think that the contract stipulates that, because he will fail to report, the 2012 $9M salary wouldn't be guaranteed even if the Jets picked it up. So yeah, all in all there's definitely some risk for the Jets, but clearly he thinks that the greatest risk of all is playing this year for $1M and risking getting Leon Washingtoned. Even if he buys out and becomes an RFA next season, he'll still make considerably over $1M.

EDIT: btw, ESPN also quoted Tannenbaum as calling Revis "the Derek Jeter of the Jets". Seriously, were they trying to convince him to hold out, or are they just that dumb?

 

[shmessy]

Re: Jets Owner: Revis unlikely to sign before start of season

EDIT: btw, ESPN also quoted Tannenbaum as calling Revis "the Derek Jeter of the Jets". Seriously, were they trying to convince him to hold out, or are they just that dumb?

I'm scratching my head about how they're handling this in the press also.

On the face of it, my answers would be "yes" and "yes".

The conspiracy side of me tells me that this might be a huge fake out by the FO and that there is some ulterior motive to them treating the media like a psychologist's couch during their "crisis".

They can't be THAT stupid.......or....

 

[TBradyOwnsYou]

It's complicated, 30% rule, unknown situation with the CBA, potential lock out looming, add in a corner back/GM that mite be unreasonable. Adds up to a real bummer of a situation for all involved, most importantly me.

I stated a week ago, after doing my due diligence that Revis would be inked to a new deal by tommorrow. Seems I was wrong.

I am not upset with Revis or the Jets, just disapointed with the way business is done in the NFL.

Revis signed a contract to play for 6 years. He is chosing to reneg on that because your coach felated his ego so much that he feels he shouldn't be bound by his contract.
What is the point in getting someone to sign a contract if they can just whine until they get a new one? Sorry, but I think if you sign a contract and you hold out in the middle of it for more money, you should forfeight 100% of the money you made on the ENTIRE contract.

 

[Rob0729]

Re: Jets Owner: Revis Unlikely to Sign Before Start of Season

That's way too literate though... anyone in their right mind knows no CB is worth that much and just because Al was crazy enough to shell that kind of money out does not mean it becomes the norm

Considering it is reported that the Broncos are willing to give Champ Bailey (who is on the back 9 of his career) a deal worth $12-13 million a year, I don't know if $15 million a year is too unreasonable for Revis. It also suggests that $15 million a year for an elite CB in his mid-20s may be the norm.

 

[Sivy]

Good, the jets and their fans deserve all of this. With all the crap they talk, we all knew it was going to come back around to them..dont be suprised to hear soon that "revis wasnt that good anyway" and he was "overrated"

 

[patchick]

Revis held out as a rookie to get a lucrative and advantageous contract, and now he's holding out on that contract. No question, the Jets fanned the flames by saying, publicly and privately, that he deserved a new contract. (WTH?) But...it still wouldn't be the issue if it weren't for this one, solitary low-paying year in his long-term deal.

This is just another twist on the very common theme of players getting big upfront signing bonuses then whining that they're underpaid because of low salaries in the later years of the deal. Why not hold out and do everything you can to try to squeeze out extra money if you don't stand to lose much this particular year?

So here's the problem for the whole league going forward: players want guaranteed money, and who can blame them. The salary cap privileges granted to signing bonuses made front-loading contracts advantageous for both sides. But the more that players complain and refuse to honor the full duration of those front-loaded contracts, the less viable that option is. It makes the tricky business of structuring contracts even trickier.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Compared to most professional sports with guaranteed contracts (which this league can never have because with 53 man rosters and upwards of 60+ guys routinely playing for a team during any given season) this league has it right. People forget that signing bonus is paid as a partial guarantee against the contract being terminated for lack of skill or injury going forward. The problem is as often the case, the union has carried the water of the screwups in this league to the extent you can't recover that even if the player becomes unavailable because he landed in jail let alone broke the league rules. So the league has begun to guarantee portions of a deal in advance and Revis got $11M guaranteed and $16M in the first 4 years which was substantially more than the guys drafted just above and below him, and he also got to void the last two years of his 6 year deal unless they were bought back for what amounted to $20M GUARANTEED and he got a stipulation that he could not be franchise tagged thereafter... This isn't a poor little shmuck being asked to play this season for a measly million, despite his agents efforts to portray him as such. This is a kid who has been paid $5M on average over the first three years of a 6 year $36M deal who now wants to be paid three times that going forward and wants a substantial chunk of that up front and fully guaranteed because one knucklehead owner decided to pay that to his established star short term based on insane tag numbers his players earlier backloaded deal created, and we know after holding out twice he won't do that again should some other knucklehead owner skew the market or once his guaranteed money has been accounted for...

I don't think anyone in their right mind wants to see the NFL become like the NBA or MLB where contracts are fully guaranteed and then guys don't show up (figuratively as opposed to literally) or can't be coached or are physically unable to perform at a reasonable level and short of them showing some personal pride which is seldom the case these days, there isn't a thing anyone can do about it short of sending them on their way with full pay... The NBA is reportedly headed for a work stoppage because of that nonsense on their watch. Teams can't continue paying multi millions to guys who can't or won't perform and expect to stay in business. Just like in business in the real world...

The NFL system needs some tweeks too to get back to the formula that worked for everyone and avoided work stoppages and franchises going under for 15 years while growing the pie collectively. Earning the bulk of your deal with pre agreed pre paid severance in the event you no longer are and/or you are unwilling to restructure the unguaranteed backend of a backloaded deal everyone knew was just constructed for show. And players need better long term benefits because of the violent nature of the sport and the toll it takes on their bodies and human nature. But owners can't improve on long term benefits until the players and the union agree to share in that cost instead of demanding every last cent be paid up front and then crying that it isn't enough after the fact because players fail to manage their finances accordingly.

Players should always have the option of witholding services due to the nature of their employment. But owners should not be expected to routinely or entirely cave in to demands, and again, human nature being what it is, for the collective well being of the game and the league, they should not be allowed to. The salary cap was supposed to insure that, but over time the union and player agents and selfish, desperate owners have forced or pressured or rationalized their way around it. Time to cease letting the tail wag the dog. Even if it takes a work stoppage.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Revis held out as a rookie to get a lucrative and advantageous contract, and now he's holding out on that contract. No question, the Jets fanned the flames by saying, publicly and privately, that he deserved a new contract. (WTH?) But...it still wouldn't be the issue if it weren't for this one, solitary low-paying year in his long-term deal.

This is just another twist on the very common theme of players getting big upfront signing bonuses then whining that they're underpaid because of low salaries in the later years of the deal. Why not hold out and do everything you can to try to squeeze out extra money if you don't stand to lose much this particular year?

So here's the problem for the whole league going forward: players want guaranteed money, and who can blame them. The salary cap privileges granted to signing bonuses made front-loading contracts advantageous for both sides. But the more that players complain and refuse to honor the full duration of those front-loaded contracts, the less viable that option is. It makes the tricky business of structuring contracts even trickier.

The system worked well initially when players got a reasonable percentage of their deal guaranteed. The problem is agents have continued to push the envelope and too many desperate, driven owners all too willingly licked it. Once you get to the point that more than half of a potential silly money deal is essentially guaranteed, you end up with Albert Haynesworth like situations where the player has received so much of his deal he believes he can do as he pleases because if an owners only alternative is to put up with his crap or cut him he knows he can still get the lions share of the balance out of him or elsewhere...

When Ty Law or Drew Bledsoe or even Brett Favre or Donavan McNabb or a host of big name stars got their $60-$100M blockbuster deals a decade ago, they only got $10-20M or less of it up front. Now guys are routinely demanding and receiving anywhere from a third to more than half up front. Cash over cap was the culprit. Snyder had it in spades and began throwing it at FA like monopoly money, and agents like Condon in particular began to force everyone to over utilize it even if they didn't have the revenue to warrant it. Including on overhyped college kids who had yet to prove they could play a down at this level.