OT - It's offseason, but just wondering what people think. Best Boston Athlete

[patsfan13]

The fact that Russell won 11, in my mind, says more about how immature and undeveloped the NBA was back then rather than say how great Russell is.

Then you were too young to see the play in the NBA, there was no dilution of talent a lot of the teams were loaded with talent. Like the NHL with the original 6 when guys who would be in the NHL with more teams were playing minor league hickey for the Rhode Island Reds and Springfield Kings....

 

[1960Pats]

A brief history lesson for those unfamiliar with Bill Russell ...

NBA.com: Timeless Excellence

The thing that amazed me about Russell was that he was a great shot blocker but never seemed to get faked out, like others would. When he was asked about that he said that he never jumped to block a shot until the player released the ball. That's a great example of how quick he was to the ball.

 

[patsfan13]

I saw all these guys play, the top 4 in order:

1)Russell, smartest player in a team sport I have seen, understood winning like no other player I have ever seen. Put many teammates in the HOF who wouldn't be they didn't play with Bill Russell, ask them if you don't believe me. Greatest winner in the history of team sports any team sport. Never lost an elimination game.

Did it in a time when it was tough to be a Black star in Boston.


Orr, genius of his sport changed the role of a defenseman, was tough as nails tragically had his career shortened by knee injuries, sort of a hockey version of Gayle Sayers.

Brady, IMO set to go down as the greatest QB in the history of the game 2nd smartest team sport player i have seen (after Russell, ahead of Bird). Great winner in a salary cap era where teams can't be kept together.

Williams arguably greatest hitter in the history of baseball. He was handicapped by time lost while in the military in WW2 AND Korea, his numbers probably surpass Ruth's IF he didn't lose 5 years in the prime of his career (think of time spent getting back his skills after missing a couple of years.


Bird
Ortiz
Borque
Havlicek

 

[Jackson 2]

When someone says "who was the best athlete" they usually mean "best athlete in the context of the sport they played" so I am going to assume that is what the OP meant in this question - otherwise fact is your average Olympic decathlete is light years ahead of all those guys in terms of pure athletic ability.

So, in the context of the sports they played, I have to say Bobby Orr is the greatest, edging out Ted Williams by a splinter (pun intended). Russell wasn't even the best in his day. He won plenty of championships, but was on loaded Celtics teams. I have no doubt if we magically traded Russell for Chamberlain, then it's Chamberlain with 11 titles (or maybe more) and not Russell.

And having seen the NBA in person from the late fifties as a child right through to Russell's retirement when I became an adult, I can tell you I believe you're dead wrong. Notice I didn't say you are dead wrong, I said I believe you're dead wrong. But, on second thought, you ARE dead wrong, and I say that respectfully. How coincidental that his high school team won back to back California state championships and his USF college team won back to back collegiate national championships. All 4 of those teams must have been "loaded" too.

 

[Froob]

When someone says "who was the best athlete" they usually mean "best athlete in the context of the sport they played" so I am going to assume that is what the OP meant in this question - otherwise fact is your average Olympic decathlete is light years ahead of all those guys in terms of pure athletic ability.

So, in the context of the sports they played, I have to say Bobby Orr is the greatest, edging out Ted Williams by a splinter (pun intended). Russell wasn't even the best in his day. He won plenty of championships, but was on loaded Celtics teams. I have no doubt if we magically traded Russell for Chamberlain, then it's Chamberlain with 11 titles (or maybe more) and not Russell.

Not true at all. Wilt admitted himself when asked about it, (paraphrasing) "That's not true, I wouldn't have won as many as Russell, he was exactly what they needed." Russell is the greatest winner in SPORTS history. No disrespect to the others on the list, but this is Russell. Back-to-back highschool champions, back-to-back NCAA champions, won 8 straight in a row and 11 total. 11/12 years not including the year he was hurt. Unreal. And for those trying to diminish what he did because the league was smaller is kinda silly, that means the talent pool wasn't deluded like it is now. He didn't get to feast on teams like the bucks or the sixers or even today's celtics like LeBron and KD can. He was going up against multiple hall of famers on a nightly basis. Nobody will ever bring as many titles to Boston as Bill Russell did.

 

[1960Pats]

1) Russell - He played at a time when every team was loaded with players, and at a time when because of the tighter rules he had to worry about the quicker, smaller players drawing him in for fouls. In his last 16 years of competitive basketball (college, Olympics and pros) his team won it all 14 of those years. That's a mind-numbing number that simply can't be ignored.

2) Orr - He, like Russell, was so much better than everyone else that opponents and teammates would talk about him with reverence. My favorite moment was when the NHL All Stars were in town some years after Orr retired, and one of the old time hard core Bruins fans was asked how it felt to have 'the great one' playing at the Garden that day. The woman replied with a typical Boston accent that the great one played here for ten years already. She was right.

3) Bird - What struck me most about Bird was how when push came to shove, and somebody needed to hit the shot or make a play, he always came through. He knew what opponents and teammates were going to do before they knew, and the ball or Bird would end up in the best place. His all around talent was incredible and his stat lines were in the insane category.

4) Brady and Teddy in a tie - It's harder for these players to have an impact in their sports, as they are only one of a large number of players responsible for success. In the end for me though, it's about the level of play they provided that was above the norm, and they were both at or near the top.

 

[Froob]

And having seen the NBA in person from the late fifties as a child right through to Russell's retirement when I became an adult, I can tell you I believe you're dead wrong. Notice I didn't say you are dead wrong, I said I believe you're dead wrong. But, on second thought, you ARE dead wrong, and I say that respectfully. How coincidental that his high school team won back to back California state championships and his USF college team won back to back collegiate national championships. All 4 of those teams must have been "loaded" too.

I wish I could have seen him play myself, I've read red's book about him and starting a new one soon about him and wilt. I have to ask, who are your top 3 basketball players of all time? Curious to know if you think Wilt, Russ, and Kareem have a fair claim to the GOAT status with Jordan. I think people today give too much credit to Jordan (not that he wasn't great).

 

[1960Pats]

Not true at all. Wilt admitted himself when asked about it, (paraphrasing) "That's not true, I wouldn't have won as many as Russell, he was exactly what they needed." Russell is the greatest champion in SPORTS history. No disrespect to the others on the list, but this is Russell. Back-to-back highschool champions, back-to-back NCAA champions, won 8 straight in a row and 11 total. 11/12 years not including the year he was hurt. Unreal. And for those trying to diminish what he did because the league was smaller is kinda silly, that means the talent pool wasn't deluded like it is now. He didn't get to feast on teams like the bucks or the sixers or even today's celtics like LeBron and KD can. He was going up against multiple hall of famers on a nightly basis. Nobody will ever bring as many titles to Boston as Bill Russell did.

We have to agree to agree on this one. :agree:

The same lame arguments were used by the Indiots to project that Manning would win as much as Brady has if they swapped teams. Hogwash. Brady and Russell had their chances and came through. Manning and Chamberlain had their chances and didn't.

 

[Jackson 2]

I wish I could have seen him play myself, I've read red's book about him and starting a new one soon about him and wilt. I have to ask, who are your top 3 basketball players of all time? Curious to know if you think Wilt, Russ, and Kareem have a fair claim to the GOAT status with Jordan. I think people today give too much credit to Jordan (not that he wasn't great).

I labor over that question all of the time. I'm ancient enough to have seen NBA doubleheaders at the old Providence Auditorium. Two games, back to back on Sunday afternoons involving 4 teams. I also had Celtics season tickets in the early 70s (Cowens, JoJo, Havlicek, et all), so I've seen pretty much everyone. As much as it pains me, I have to put Jordan #1. Russell, Wilt, Oscar Robertson, Koby Bryant, Larry, Magic, Jerry West, Lebron (hate admitting that one, too), Kareem are all in the mix. Sorry I can't definitively pick just 3. Anyway, thanks for asking!

 

[Bruins29]

The guys who said Russell are correct. It actually isn't really debatable despite all of the love for TB. Sure we are on a pats board and most of us never saw him play but its difficult to compare Brady to the greatest and most successful athlete in sports history.