OT: Crazy Story After Home Fire of Jets Player

[captain stone]

A lot of taxpayer dollars have gone to electric vehicle chargers and there's very little to show for it. Those dollars probably went up in smoke just like the batteries.

That industry, and it's not alone, would barely be surviving if it weren't being involuntarily funded by the American taxpayer.

We need the same singlemindedness that came with the development of the atomic bomb. Get all the best minds together and fix the problem.

Seems to me the problem is the inefficient spending of taxpayer-provided money.

 

[Steve102]

Thought about getting a Tesla for a minute and it was so hard to get unbiased information about their cars. Everyone was either a fanboy nut job or just hated everything they did because of Musk. Ultimately I am happy I didn't after seeing dozens of videos about how poorly some of the cars are put together. Ridiculous door gaps, too many junky plastic interior pieces, and issues charging and even removing the charger. And all that was before they released that ridiculous truck.

They do go like a bastard tho. We've had a couple here in trade.

 

[203Pat]

They do go like a bastard tho. We've had a couple here in trade.

They're quick as hell and if everything works/doesnt break they seem like great cars. Just too many issues seemingly from a lack of factory QA.

 

[Steve102]

They're quick as hell and if everything works/doesnt break they seem like great cars. Just too many issues seemingly from a lack of factory QA.

The F150 and the Mach-E are the same, all torque. Haven't driven the others.

 

[203Pat]

The F150 and the Mach-E are the same, all torque. Haven't driven the others.

Anything is better than the hybrids. Test drove the JGC hybrid and it was clunky as hell.

 

[rochrist]

Not good look for Tesla.

Par for the course though.

 

[Steve102]

Anything is better than the hybrids. Test drove the JGC hybrid and it was clunky as hell.

JGC?

 

[n1997y]

Lithium batteries are a temporary evil while we figure out better tech that doesn't rely on such a limited resource. It's just something we're using to reduce the fossil fuel consumption right now, but it's not the long term solution. We haven't come up with the long term solution.

That's how I understand it from an old biochemist I know.

Problem is the energy density, that’s how much kinetic energy to drive the vehicle forward can be stored in a kilogram or pound of fuel or battery. Hydrocarbon fueled internal combustion engines are orders of magnitude better than the best batteries, and right now lithium makes the best batteries. I’ve not heard of anything promising to raise the bar significantly for battery technology anytime soon.

 

[203Pat]

JGC?

Jeep Grand Cherokee. I have been driving them for test and for ****s and giggles I test drove their new hybrid. Thing was herky jerky and a complete dog.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Anything is better than the hybrids. Test drove the JGC hybrid and it was clunky as hell.

Stellantis is probably not the best benchmark for drive systems that do not include 8 cylinders and massive displacement. If you are looking for a transportation appliance, Toyota hybrids are hard to beat. The system in our Sienna manny van is great. It operates seamlessly, instant AWD and delivers amazing mileage, especially in stop and go traffic.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Problem is the energy density, that’s how much kinetic energy to drive the vehicle forward can be stored in a kilogram or pound of fuel or battery. Hydrocarbon fueled internal combustion engines are orders of magnitude better than the best batteries, and right now lithium makes the best batteries. I’ve not heard of anything promising to raise the bar significantly for battery technology anytime soon.

Your post is spot on with the exception of the last sentence. Development of solid state batteries is in the works.

Solid State EV Batteries

 

[n1997y]

Your post is spot on with the exception of the last sentence. Development of solid state batteries is in the works.

Solid State EV Batteries

That’s interesting, and promising. But…. Still many years away. Still many unsolved problems. Dendrites aren’t yet a solved problem at scale. Most optimistic statement was possibly commercial scale production by 2027. I’ll bet dollars to donuts that will slip. And I’m doubtful they’ll get design wins that soon, so unless they’re a plug compatible drop-in replacement for present technology (unlikely IMO) that will add more years to the market introduction timeframe. Also there are lots of unstated assumptions underlying the estimated 500 to 600 km range discussed later in the anrticle, and no production timeframe estimated. That’s less than I get on a tank today, and my refueling time is a few minutes. I’m skeptical they’ll deliver the performance and recharge time to match.

And that’s all trying to get to parity with petrol fueled internal combustion engines. I’m still a skeptic, and standing by my statement that no game changing breakthrough is imminent.

 

[State]

Fossil fuels ARE both the near-term AND long-term solution.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-pledges-end-gas-powered-federal-vehicle-purchases-by-2035-2021-12-08/

 

[PP2]

Lithium batteries are a temporary evil while we figure out better tech that doesn't rely on such a limited resource. It's just something we're using to reduce the fossil fuel consumption right now, but it's not the long term solution. We haven't come up with the long term solution.

That's how I understand it from an old biochemist I know.

No, that's not true. Lithium batteries are not a "temporary evil," and this old biochemist, especially as biochemist, wouldn't know the first thing about battery technology. First of all, it's not the lithium that's the issue, it's the battery technology, and how the raw battery materials are combined, insulated and packaged into a physical container. This is a technology that is rapidly improving to eliminate many of the instabilities that plagued earlier batteries which would expand and contract during charging or discharge between the anode and cathode and result in unevenly charged surfaces, or dendrite formation, leading to thermal runaways. Nowadays most lithium batteries fires result from improper charging, storing, and discharge.

Also nothing is going to replace lithium itself. It's the lightest known conducive metal on the planet, and a pretty light substance (half the weight of water). There quite simply is no substitute for it.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

That’s interesting, and promising. But…. Still many years away. Still many unsolved problems. Dendrites aren’t yet a solved problem at scale. Most optimistic statement was possibly commercial scale production by 2027. I’ll bet dollars to donuts that will slip. And I’m doubtful they’ll get design wins that soon, so unless they’re a plug compatible drop-in replacement for present technology (unlikely IMO) that will add more years to the market introduction timeframe. Also there are lots of unstated assumptions underlying the estimated 500 to 600 km range discussed later in the anrticle, and no production timeframe estimated. That’s less than I get on a tank today, and my refueling time is a few minutes. I’m skeptical they’ll deliver the performance and recharge time to match.

And that’s all trying to get to parity with petrol fueled internal combustion engines. I’m still a skeptic, and standing by my statement that no game changing breakthrough is imminent.

I agree, EV's are not ready for widespread use at this point. Mandating the adoption of technology with known limitations before it is ready is not progress, it is a giant waste of money. Let the technology advance at a more natural pace, using fossil fuels to bridge the gap. Most importantly, invest in finding real alternatives for upgrading the grid.

 

[Brotherblues]

No, that's not true. Lithium batteries are not a "temporary evil," and this old biochemist, especially as biochemist, wouldn't know the first thing about battery technology. First of all, it's not the lithium that's the issue, it's the battery technology, and how the raw battery materials are combined, insulated and packaged into a physical container. This is a technology that is rapidly improving to eliminate many of the instabilities that plagued earlier batteries which would expand and contract during charging or discharge between the anode and cathode and result in unevenly charged surfaces, or dendrite formation, leading to thermal runaways. Nowadays most lithium batteries fires result from improper charging, storing, and discharge.

Also nothing is going to replace lithium itself. It's the lightest known conducive metal on the planet, and a pretty light substance (half the weight of water). There quite simply is no substitute for it.

Hey, don't diss my science hero.

Anyway, the point wasn't about the instability of lithium.

The point was availability. Limited resource, concentrated in few areas, and as far as we know there's only enough to last a few decades. We can improve the tech on it to stretch it for a longer time but we'll run into shortages eventually. The long-long-term isn't a realistic expectation with our current knowledge. It's out of the question to put them in every car.

That said, we're encouraged to turn to it at the extent that we can, for as long as we can, just to get away from fossils. It's likely we'll figure something else out along the way. We always do.

 

[1960Pats]

Anything is better than the hybrids. Test drove the JGC hybrid and it was clunky as hell.

I'm sticking with my Lincoln. It's 12 years old and rides like it's brand new.

My wife likes the look of the Tesla but we won't be buying that or any other electric vehicle.

 

[Steve102]

Jeep Grand Cherokee. I have been driving them for test and for ****s and giggles I test drove their new hybrid. Thing was herky jerky and a complete dog.

Toyota has it perfected. Drive a Highlander or a Grand Highlander. Plenty of power.

 

[n1997y]

I'm sticking with my Lincoln. It's 12 years old and rides like it's brand new.

My wife says I’m going to drive her to drinking if I don’t stop driving that hot rod Lincoln.

 

[PP2]

Hey, don't diss my science hero.

Anyway, the point wasn't about the instability of lithium.

The point was availability. Limited resource, concentrated in few areas, and as far as we know there's only enough to last a few decades. We can improve the tech on it to stretch it for a longer time but we'll run into shortages eventually. The long-long-term isn't a realistic expectation with our current knowledge. It's out of the question to put them in every car.

That said, we're encouraged to turn to it at the extent that we can, for as long as we can, just to get away from fossils. It's likely we'll figure something else out along the way. We always do.

Enough to last a few decades? Who is telling you that? Lithium actually is very plentiful- it's a salt that can be found anywhere. The only constraint is converting it to battery grade lithium.

Figure something else out? With what substance? What can you find that is lighter than lithium?