Orlovsky: "In the rain on the road against the greatest defensive mind ever in NFL history." Footsie Rex Ryan: "That's debatable."

[sb1]

I don’t know how much of last night was weather, Brady feeling the impact of losing a key offensive playmaker like Gronk, bad luck like with the Brown drop or a great scheme designed by BB. Maybe a bit of all of the above.

There probably won’t be a rematch but if there was I wouldn’t count on the Patriots holding the Brady Bucs to 19 points and one offensive TD again.

 

[gobesmug]

I don’t know how much of last night was weather, Brady feeling the impact of losing a key offensive playmaker like Gronk, or a great scheme designed by BB. Maybe a bit of all 3.

There probably won’t be a rematch but if there was I wouldn’t count on the Patriots holding the Brady Bucs to 19 points again.

With the current secondary and Matt Judon playing like a beast, I can.

Brady and by extension the Bucs definitely wanted to win by throwing it. You know Brady wanted to shove it in Bill's face that he is still great.

Matt Judon was the biggest factor. He abused the LT. On that bomb to AB Judon would have had the sack without the blatant hold. Judon was also held at other times without it getting called

 

[sb1]

With the current secondary and Matt Judon playing like a beast, I can.

Brady and by extension the Bucs definitely wanted to win by throwing it. You know Brady wanted to shove it in Bill's face that he is still great.

Matt Judon was the biggest factor. He abused the LT. On that bomb to AB Judon would have had the sack without the blatant hold. Judon was also held at other times without it getting called

He was unbelievable. Had a great game too against us when the Ravens blew us out a couple years ago on MNF.

An impact like he brings is what the Pats were missing last year on defense.

 

[gobesmug]

He was unbelievable. Had a great game too against us when the Ravens blew us out a couple years ago on MNF.

An impact like he brings is what the Pats were missing last year on defense.

He was definitely the best acquisition in FA this year of any team.

At 14mil a year he is a steal.

Shaq Barrett was considered a steal at 18mil a year but Judon is outplaying him by a wide margin.

Judon looking like Gilly 2.0 for defensive additions since 2010

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Correct it's not an argument. I'm stopping it in it's tracks.

You are going down the BB sucks without Brady rabbit hole and i'm not doing it.

No, I'm just saying it a disingenuous argument.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Every HC ever needs a QB. Nothing wrong with acknowledging that.

Sanchez was terrible. Those Jets team were talented and had a great defensive.

It's not a stretch to the imagination that with a better QB that the Jets pull of a Superbowl.

But Rex is nowhere near the HC and GM Bill is and even he acknowledges that.

But the debate mentioned wasn't about overall ability but defensive genius. It's fair to think that other coaches have matched and maybe even surpassed Bill purely on defense.

I personally wouldn't place anyone above Bill for defense but thale debate has merit

Debating if Ryan would have won is pointless.

The defensive genius of Bill vs other defensive geniuses on the other hand is not.

Bill's greatest defensive coaching job was probably the Giants vs Bills Superbowl because he used a unique technique of intentionally allowing the run to stop the pass which the Bills couldn't help themselves from trying to use.

That has more or less became Bill's signature.

Taking away what the other team either wanted to do on offense or what they had to do.

Examples were taking away Marshall Faulk from the Rams, and even last night he gave up the run knowing the Bucs would want to have success through the air.

His best Def was the 04 Pats. But the 04 Pats def doesn't compare to the 85 Bears or the 2000 Ravens. It's more in the catagory of the legion of boom.

But even that 04 team didn't have a defensive defining win in the Superbowl giving up 21 points to a puking McNabb. The year before they up 29 points to the Panthers with Jake Delhomme.

The Seahawks only gave up 8 points to the highest scoring offense of all time. The Ravens only gave up 7 in their win and the Bears with 10.

However Bill did have the 3 points only given up which was an incredible defensive performance.

I still choose Bill but I wouldn't laugh at someone for choosing another defensive genius either

Exactly. Bill is great, still great, but it's not a "hands down no debate, you're stupid if you think otherwise" debate, espeically when you realize that other coaches just never had that great a QB.

Rex Ryan was still too clownish and loose and unfocused to be a long term great coach. So obviously if he had Brady, he wouldn't have had anywhere NEAR the success Beli had.

But he would have won at least 1, and he would probably still coach to this day and not have to be on ESPN.

 

[upstater1]

Exactly. Bill is great, still great, but it's not a "hands down no debate, you're stupid if you think otherwise" debate, espeically when you realize that other coaches just never had that great a QB.

Rex Ryan was still too clownish and loose and unfocused to be a long term great coach. So obviously if he had Brady, he wouldn't have had anywhere NEAR the success Beli had.

But he would have won at least 1, and he would probably still coach to this day and not have to be on ESPN.

Rex Ryan was a clown who lost the respect of players after his act wore thin. I live in Buffalo and the players and fans ripped him daily while he was here. He was his own worst enemy and he was so full of hubris and bull that he really was ineffective as a coach. It's a miracle teams put up with him as long as he did. As for the whole foot fetish thing, the whole affair was actually much more in depth than people know, but I know for a fact that the players knew all the details down to the nitty gritty. The story carried from NY to Buffalo and it made me really really wonder if the owners were totally asleep when they hired him. If I knew about it, why didn't the owners?

 

[Wozzy]

This 2021 defense is one of the best in the league, Rex Ryan is a buffoon.

 

[Wozzy]

To be fair, who were Rex's QBs?

Like let's be honest: if Brady was on those 2009 and 2010 Jets teams...

If Belichick had Sanchez... he isn't winning anything.

BB drafted Brady, Rex drafted Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith... Tom didn't just appear out of the mist.

In 2018 Bill's defense stonewalled the Rams in the Super Bowl, this in the age of inflated scoring... his defenses have often been catalysts for winning.

 

[Marko]

Such arrogance.

Nothing wrong with debating a coach or player.

There have been plenty of Defensive geniuses in the NFL. Chuck Knoll, **** Labeua, Buddy Ryan.

The Patriots have had great defensives under Bill but none that compare to the 85 Bears or 2000 Ravens.

If you want to pick Bill over all others that's fine, but nothing about Bill as a defensive genius, which he is, separates him so drastically from those others geniuses that you can't discuss it.

The pats didn't win 6 Superbowls as a result of great defense alone. Only the wins against the Rams were true great defensive games, holding the greatest show to 17 points and the great performance of holding the other Rams to 3 points

Other than that he gave up 21 or more points in all other wins, it was the offense that has to play great those games to win.

That doesn't mean Bill isn't a defensive genius, because he is. But it's not like every Superbowl win was holding teams under 10 points and every year he had a top 3 def.

Bill has had a lot of mediocre defenses and his def against the Eagles in the Superbowl was a horrible performance.

I still pick Bill as the superior HC because he is also an underrated offensive mind. His offenses have been great and he definitely has had a huge role in that.

Greatest overall coach IMO. But I can see the argument where others could be considered better with defense

Yes but 2 of their losses they gave up less than 20….Also, he was able to shut down the Colts offenses in the playoffs in the 2000s that were arguably some of the best offenses in history

 

[captain stone]

Rex will still never give Belichick any credit. He's always been a self-hating jealous moron.

Of course it's debatable.

Bill might very well come out of such a debate still regarded as the best-ever defensive coach...And Tubby Wrecks is indeed a total buffoon...But to consider such a topic as beyond debate? C'mon man, that's kinda disrespectful to all the other defensive coaches throughout league history.