PostGame Thread OFFICIAL POSTGAME THREAD: Patriots lose to Raiders 21-17

[Sect140]

Gillette will have 5,000-10,000 Bills fans next week

It sure will. I noticed last home game that most of the regulars in my section were not there, looks like they gave tickets to younger family members and none of them actually care about what is happening on the field.

 

[stcjones]

Brady and Bill had a great formula for years. Brady won games and Bill drew up x and o’s when they needed them against ferocious opponents. Sorry Bill, it happens to every great. In this day and age, you need a good to great qb to win.

I think great to legendary is a must….look at Andy Reid’s record without Mahomes and Bruce Arians before Brady….

 

[Ross12]

I feel like this team could probably succeed to some extent if Bill was just the coach, and there was a separate GM and the whole scouting department was overhauled. But I just really doubt that will happen.

I suppose you could achieve something similar to that approach by making Mayo the next HC, but you’d need a GM who was fine with that. And I also question if that’s the best approach if you’re changing coaches since the league is so offense-first now.

I see some sense in making Mayo interim HC now so he can put his resume on the table over these next weeks.

 

[lancerman]

Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Herbert (whose line stinks), and Brian Hoyer

Mahomes never made a playoff without Kelce. Allen never made one without Diggs, Burrow never made one without Chase and might not this year with him lol, Herbert has better talent and never made the playoffs. Hoyers been in the league for years and he led one team to the playoffs... that team had Hopkins who was an All Pro and one of the premier WR's for that era of the league lol.

So you failed to meet the challenge. You have not provided a single QB that has proven objectively they could lead less talented offenses than this one to the playoffs.

In fact.... you listed 4 of the 5 you listed have only ever made the playoffs with either a All Pro level WR or All Pro TE. The only one who didn't have an All Pro on his roster was Herbert. Who has routinely had Austin Ekeler and Keenan Allen lol.... and he only made it once with them lol.

So congratulations you proved my point.

Even today Hoyer had Adams, the former best WR on the Patriots last year and Jacobs and barely beat one of the worst teams in the league.

Like I said, all cards on the table you just don't have reality on your side.

 

[farn]

He threw a perfect ball to Parker in crunch time under pressure and led them back to put them in that position. I don't know what else to say.

He's not Brady.

He's an average guy who could be adequate if he had any semblance of help, whether it's up front or in the receiving corps. If people could realize that and just accept the kid for what he is, it would make life easier.

I really liked rookie Mac and thought he was a top 10-12 QB with the potential of being 8-9. And with a good squad around him, I hoped that’d do the trick.

I think he’s regressed. His weapons are problematic, but while he will make a good play here and there (like the Parker throw) it’s not nearly consistent enough to be a winner.

He’s had ample shots at coming back and has fallen short. Regardless of contract, it’s time to move on.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Bill's last 3 years have been very comparable to Bobby Grier's from 1997-1999.

A year too early is better than a year too late. Unless his name is Devante Parker , then its 3 more years

 

[GaryfromTO]

We've scored 72 points in 6 games.

 

[Patriot Missile]

I remember thinking, DURING that wild 59-0 win, « we aren’t that great this year. We’re just playing vs losers… »

I was aware I was spoiled. but I remember thinking NE was def not good enough to win the SB that season. Have we even scored 59 in combined games this season ?

No, but thanks for the trip down memory lane and more acid on the wound which is this team’s offense.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Thornton played his usual invisible man routine and Parker dropped what could have been a HUGE 1st down in crunch time.

This offense seems to feature the window dressing that has no purpose after the play is snapped.

Mac showed his usual day late, dollar short tendencies after that by giving up a 'I have zero sense of blind side pressure' safety to seal the game.

He tends to do that when he's behind as he's had nothing to lose. He'll make a brief comeback, only to fall short late in the game. Those days of doing that are now numbered.

 

[lancerman]

Mac Jones still stinks as a QB

Yeah. And no current top QB in the league has ever played with an offense as bad as Jones. So it's a moot point. There's no history of any of the top QB's doing well with offenses this bad. Brady's worst offenses had far better lines and still had decent RB's and pass catchers compared to this one.

My point isn't that Mac is the answer. My point is that there is no quick fix and that nobody is winning with this garbage team with how bad it is right now. Whoever you put in this spot is being set up to fail.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Honestly this team is set up for the future.
Rodgers might come back In wildcard playoff scenario.

Best case scenario (so bound to happen with Jets):

Team rallies around Wilson, who shows big improvement and wins over the confidence of the team for his comeback story. Team finishes 10-7.

Rodgers returns for playoffs, melts down, points fingers.

All offseason players and coaches are asked which QB is the starter in 2024.

 

[mgteich]

I care about the well being of the team and it’s future. Was about as patient as they come when it came to Mac. Was cheering the guy on. Wanted him to succeed. Wasn’t he suppose to be better off with a real oc? He’s worse for it. He could of just thrown the one int out of bounds on the run but he didn’t. Are you telling me the center position and the two guards are getting collapsed upon, every down? At some point he has as much responsibility of stepping out, aside, outside as any other qb in the NFL.

I think that MOST of the Qb's would have done poorly with our offense in the past three weeks.

I think that you are frustrated because mac improved, and would have won easily with even a mediocre OL.

 

[ahmed]

No I'm not. You can not objectively say the line is better. You can not objectively say the RB's are better. You can not look at anything these WR's have ever done in their career and make a real case they are better.

This cuts both ways. I can say you are looking at Mac through the frame of a much worse offensive line than Brady ever had in his life, less productive RB's than Brady ever played with and WR's who miss routine catches and can't do routine toe touches.

AND this is the worst special teams in terms of DVOA that the Patriots have had since Belichick got here... which has nothing to do with Mac.

There is no objective metric you can say those teams were less talented than this one.

I'd love to here why washed Zeke and Stevenson playing like crap is better than Dillon, Maroney, or Blount. I'd love to hear why Parker or Bourne or washed Juju are better than Edelman in his breakout year, Gronk or Amendola.

What in their mechanics and production makes you think they are better.

Maroney in 2006 less than 800 yards. Dillon in 2006 800 yards. Stevenson last year was 1k. Now imagine him with Brady instead of stacked boxes with Mac. Caldwell had 760 yards on 100+ targets. Meyer 800 yards on 96 targets. Henry 500 yards. Watson 640 yards. When you add Brady vs Mac it is clear.

2013 - No rusher had more than 750 yards. By the end of the year it was Edelman and the lousy rookies.

 

[sb1]

We've scored 72 points in 6 games.

Beat Miami’s single game high (70)

Hang the banner!

 

[VJCPatriot]

He threw a perfect ball to Parker in crunch time under pressure and led them back to put them in that position. I don't know what else to say.

He's not Brady.

He's an average guy who could be adequate if he had any semblance of help, whether it's up front or in the receiving corps. If people could realize that and just accept the kid for what he is, it would make life easier.

I accept that you're still holding out hope for Mac Jones to rebound.

But I'm done hearing defenses for this kid. He just "ain't that guy." And nothing he has shown in 2023 convinces me to the contrary.

Like I said the entire offense needs an overhaul. But that starts with QB1. You need someone "special" at QB to win a lot of games in the NFL.

No, there's never going to be another Brady. Clearly. But San Franciso found Steve Young after Montana retired. And they got some really good years out of him.

We have high standards in New England now. MID at best isn't gonna cut it. We have playoff aspirations here! I'm all in for finding a top tier QB1 in the draft. Who here is really against that? Who here just wants to "run it back" with Mac Jones as our QB1 in 2024?

 

[Ian]

Ian let me ask you, put Mac Jones on the 49ers in place of BP, what's his ceiling/floor to you?

Ok, since you didn't like the first answer, I'll say this.

I believe he's a guy who can win 10+ games and potentially be a guy who can win games in the postseason. I mean, we saw it in year one before they blew everything up here.

The book on him coming out of Alabama was the fact he didn't have the best arm, but he was smart and when given time and adequate weapons, he can be successful. Aside from year one, he hasn't had it since.

Shanahan has already proven he can do that there, and he's even done it with Garoppolo, which sort of speaks volumes given how he's looked in Las Vegas. In San Francisco, they have a stable offensive line and an incredibly stacked group of players, so unlike here, he'd have someone to throw to in critical situations.

Last year, that was Meyers. He led this team in dramatic fashion in third down receptions the last two seasons (look at the stat pages from 2021 and 2022). Jones literally doesn't have anyone he can look to consistently. Neither did Zappe, which is why both have struggled. They don't have anyone right now who can they can consistently count on to go to third down right now. San Francisco has that.

People are talking about the fact Zappe hasn't gotten a fair shake but all that's happened is he hasn't had to spend 60 minutes running for his life yet. The results are what they are not because he completely forgot how to play quarterback.

So do I believe Mac would be better there? Absolutely. And my fear here is that the blame is going to continue to be placed primarily on the quarterback instead of where it should go, and we're going to watch an extension of what's happening right now with someone else because they're also not going to bring in any serious help at receiver, even probably this offseason.

Again, I don't care about Mac. I care about what we're in for. Anyone who has watched this team well before Brady got here (or even Bledsoe) has already lived it. They're in step one of trying to find the next Brady. But you at least need to be able to live with OK to average until that happens. Because both "great" and "elite" are rare.

 

[JR52]

He's an average guy who could be adequate if he had any semblance of help, whether it's up front or in the receiving corps. If people could realize that and just accept the kid for what he is, it would make life easier.

He's an average guy, he's certainly not an average QB which is what I think you meant here. I'm not sure how many people here are accepting Mac for who he is at this point. I can't believe you are back to this game again.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Curran: "The Patriots might be the worst team in the league"
he ain't lying

They are... People just can't come to terms with it.... Sure 2nd half was good but first half they continually do nothing

 

[Brotherblues]

Main takeaway from the game is that Meyers is pronounced Mayers and Mayer is pronounced Meyer. Makes as much sense as anything else we saw on the field.

 

[Grogan14]

The elephant in the room- Did Matt Patricia shoulder too much of the blame last year?
Looks like the team was just bad