Game Day Thread Official Post Game Thread- Pats beat Arizona

[upstater1]

Tell me that Patricia isn't the biggest problem with this offense.

Brady has done this in the past under McDaniels when our run game was blown to hell.

 

[Steve102]

I agree. The Cardinals most of the night we’re leaving the center of the field empty except for one high safety. They anticipated exactly what we gave ‘em.

That’s why the seam route by Hunter Henry was so gratifying. More of that.

My gripe is the absence of plays downfield for Tyquan Thornton. You can’t coach speed, and he is the fastest guy in the field.

Just look at how Detroit is incorporating Jameson Williams into their offense.

Why can’t we do that here?

It gets back to my thought that all of this is by design. I'll expand on my original thought. Perhaps Mac is more Drew Bledsoe "nah, f**k that, go out there and sling it" and less Tom Brady take what the D gives until it's time to make a play. So Bill recognizes that Mac is too much gun slinger not enough game manager as a young player, so he brings in uber conservative fat Matt to counter that and not give Mac plays that let him give in to his tendencies. Bill knows he's not Mahomes, Herbert, Burrow or even Lawrence, so he has this infuriating conservative run his offense to limit Mac's propensity for slinging it all over and wait for him to mature until he recognizes when he can do that and when he needs to take the short stuff. Matt is just like Bill and he can't alter his approach, unlike JMcD who knew at the end of the half it was time to open it up. So we continue this conservative slog, irritating not only us as fans but Mac too.

It's just a theory that fits the facts right now. We will never know, but the more I think about it the more it makes sense. Bill doesn't want this kid to end up like Milfson with the Jete, so he's basically holding back the reigns and Matt is essentially the scapegoat, for lack of a better word. Bill knows Matt is going to err on the the side of caution, so he plugs him in to run it and not let the kid eff it up too badly.

 

[upstater1]

I said this in the game day thread, this is the first game where it looks that they actually let Jones call audibles. On the first TD drive I counted three plays where Jones audibled and all three were successful plays.

He also called an audible to a WR screen in the second half. It went to Agholor on the right side of the formation

 

[ashley]

Pretty impressive:

 

[upstater1]

Snap Count:

What pops out to me here is Jonnu Smith's low numbers. He can't get time in a game like that. Amazes me

 

[Toofy]

What pops out to me here is Jonnu Smith's low numbers. He can't get time in a game like that. Amazes me

Eith screens shouldn't Jonnu be getting a lions share. Why is he missing?

 

[upstater1]

I've been a fan since they were the Boston Patriots. We are at a low point over that span of time, I suppose, but such travails are just part of it. You can't enjoy rsing up from the ashes if you don't first get down there where the ashes are to be found. The rebuild-on-the-fly thing rarely....flies.

How are we at a low point?

 

[Ross12]

Very tough year for us injury wise and with everything else that's gone on it's good/will be good to see the resiliency as the fight through everything to hopefully make the playoffs. And hopefully somehow get a lot healthier.

Yup, the injury issues have been such a problem this season. But to look at things with an optimistic lens, for the listed players:

- Christian Barmore: may return this week, seems like he should be healthy at this point
- Rhamondre Stevenson: likely not too serious since he returned to the game at one point
- Damien Harris: may return this week, he was roughly a game-time decision
- Jakobi Meyers: may return this week if his concussion clears up
- DeVante Parker: may return this week if his concussion clears up
- Jalen Mills: feels like he was close to a return this week
- Jack Jones: likely not too serious since he was on the athletic bike, maybe a 1-2 week issue
- Isaiah Wynn: who the F knows with this guy
- Marcus Cannon: can be activated any time - he was eligible to come off IR for last week

 

[VectorPrime]

No outcry from the fans since they have dozens of them.

No joke, is Phoenix the worst sports city in the US? In terms of size and lack of anyone giving a damn? Because I think the argument is there. The Coyotes are an absolute joke playing in a college rink, the Diamondbacks are known for exactly one season ever, the Suns are absolutely irrelevant regardless of making the Finals two years ago, and the Cardinals are just kind of there. I think ASU is more popular than all 4 pro teams.

 

[notex]

Tell me that Patricia isn't the biggest problem with this offense.

This is not the biggest problem with the offense.

The biggest problem with the offense is our pass protection. We cannot give Mac time to drop back and go through his reads. An offense that utilizes quick dropbacks, screens, and running the ball negate our horrendous OL play.

I've been realistic all along about Matt Patricia's ability to run an offense. He isnt great but that doesn't mean it can't work at all. Call it tempered criticism. He is not perfect, but I am not sure who the other options would be. IMO its been a dumpster-fire combination of Mac's poor awareness and turnovers (better lately), play-calling, "meh" talent at skill positions, and most of all: OL play (specifically OT).

IMO the OL play has been the biggest problem with the offense though.

 

[upstater1]

Reading this thread, it's clear that people seem not to have noticed that our right tackle is Connor McDermott.

When we ran or did screens, we mitigated that fact.

When he was required to pass block, he broke down damn near every play. I remember only one instance when he held his own and Mac had time and failed. That was a red zone pass when Mac sped himself up (there was no pressure) and threw the ball away. Otherwise there were guys coming off of McDermott's side and onto mac in .5 seconds.

I'm really not sure what anyone expects from an offense under these conditions.

This is coming from someone who believes Patricia needs to be replaced with someone who knows how to design an offense. I also believe Patricia's playcalling was good last night. I don't even have a problem with Patricia's playcalling. It has more to do with the offense's dysfunction and evidently bad design schemes. Given the team's limitations last night, with McDermott in there, missing our 2 WRs that can be counted on making catches in tight situations (Parker and Meyers), and missing our top 2 RBs, I'm not sure what fans are expecting here. For the ability that Harris showed, his fumble was inexplicable to me. I'm not sure what happened there. I've never seen a fake handoff on a delay in all my years of watching pro football. But that seems to be what Harris thought was going on. It was bizarre. I don't want to get on him for it because I actually like him running more than Pierre, but this speaks to a lack of experience, not even knowing the plays. This is what the coaches are dealing with.

No right tackle, no Rham, no Damien, no Devante, no Meyers. These losses are a huge problem for this team.

That being said, I don't know why they don't use the tight ends when things are so dire. Was it Henry's inability to block on the interception?

Don't know.

Again, there's no question our offense is inept, and it likely has to do with the coaching. But I'm not going to blame the playcalling. Last night in the game thread (I know, I know) there were a lot of people questioning running plays in the red zone or at Arizona's 30. The situation call for running was the right one. In fact, we ran in some TDs. I just don't understand why playcalling is the focus of this board when clearly the sloppiness is the problem, from penalties, to not knowing pays, to bad play design. We have much bigger problems than the focus here.

 

[venecol]

It gets back to my thought that all of this is by design. I'll expand on my original thought. Perhaps Mac is more Drew Bledsoe "nah, f**k that, go out there and sling it" and less Tom Brady take what the D gives until it's time to make a play. So Bill recognizes that Mac is too much gun slinger not enough game manager as a young player, so he brings in uber conservative fat Matt to counter that and not give Mac plays that let him give in to his tendencies. Bill knows he's not Mahomes, Herbert, Burrow or even Lawrence, so he has this infuriating conservative run his offense to limit Mac's propensity for slinging it all over and wait for him to mature until he recognizes when he can do that and when he needs to take the short stuff. Matt is just like Bill and he can't alter his approach, unlike JMcD who knew at the end of the half it was time to open it up. So we continue this conservative slog, irritating not only us as fans but Mac too.

It's just a theory that fits the facts right now. We will never know, but the more I think about it the more it makes sense. Bill doesn't want this kid to end up like Milfson with the Jete, so he's basically holding back the reigns and Matt is essentially the scapegoat, for lack of a better word. Bill knows Matt is going to err on the the side of caution, so he plugs him in to run it and not let the kid eff it up too badly.

I agree with this except the season didn't start off that way. The plan going in was to open up the vertical game. Mac proceeded to throw 6 picks in 3 games. Then what you said happened. They put the training wheels back on Mac. Of course he hates it but Bill isn't one to let the team beat itself by turning the ball over.

 

[lancerman]

 

[jdlboot14]

It had the feel of a loss when Connor scored by bowling over our entire DL for an 8 yard TD.
But, the D picked it up and finally the O did enough. For this troubled team, it's as good as a "come from behind" win as we've seen.
I think Harris and Meyers will be back in LV, and I hope Jones & Mills & Rham. But Parker will surely miss a game (at least).

At Raiders we've got to use Strong as the change-up back, D.Harris looked like he's itching to go. Rham has looked run down, like he needs a week off. Let Meyers do his thing (the Parker stuff), let Bourne be WR2, and start running Thornton for some slogo's. Don't know why Jonnu can't get the ball.

 

[venecol]

Mac would've been sacked 5 times if they used more PA, imo.

 

[upstater1]

The "just happy to be here" playoff spot does the Pats no favors.

But since they're going to be drafting OL players early (because they basically have to revamp the whole line), you can find those players a middle of the pack where they'll be picking.

I thought the same last year, and then 6 OL were taken before our spot. All the 1st round projected OL were gone right before we picked. LOL. This is going to come at a premium, and even scarier is the fact that some of those OL picked in the top 19 are already considered busts by their teams. There are 4th rounders having much more success, like Jamaree Salyer.

It's good that we stockpiled picks because I want our 1st rounder to be a difference maker at practically ANY position. I want BPA, and then spend 2 picks on tackles in the mid rounds, one at the end of the draft.

 

[Rob0729]

This is not the biggest problem with the offense.

The biggest problem with the offense is our pass protection. We cannot give Mac time to drop back and go through his reads. An offense that utilizes quick dropbacks, screens, and running the ball negate our horrendous OL play.

I've been realistic all along about Matt Patricia's ability to run an offense. He isnt great but that doesn't mean it can't work at all. Call it tempered criticism. He is not perfect, but I am not sure who the other options would be. IMO its been a dumpster-fire combination of Mac's poor awareness and turnovers (better lately), play-calling, "meh" talent at skill positions, and most of all: OL play (specifically OT).

IMO the OL play has been the biggest problem with the offense though.

The thing is Jones had very good awareness last year and did protect the ball. Part of his regression is that he isn't being coached up. You can say that about the o-line too. I guarantee you this o-line wouldn't be nearly as bad if Scar was still coaching.

Part of the o-line problems are that they are not being coached up to better read their blocking assignments. A lot of the times there is a jailbreak rush on Jones is because someone on the line didn't pick up someone. Not that they weren't talented enough to block. An o-line coach would work with the o-line while the defense is on the field to correct these errors. That's Patricia's job, but he is too busy with going over the offense with Jones.

 

[venecol]

If this team can play like last night vs Cincinnati then NE has a chance in KC.

If Burrow goes down after the 3rd play, Chase fumbles the ball for a D TD and their average OL turns into swiss cheese, we absolutely can beat the Bungles.

If Mahomes goes down after the 3rd play, Kelce fumbles the ball for a D TD and their good OL turns into swiss cheese, we absolutely can beat the Chefs.

If Allen goes down after the 3rd play, Diggs fumbles the ball for a D TD and their not so good OL turns into swiss cheese, we absolutely can beat the Jills.

I think we found the winning formula.

 

[ashley]

If Burrow goes down after the 3rd play, Chase fumbles the ball for a D TD and their average OL turns into swiss cheese, we absolutely can beat the Bungles.

If Mahomes goes down after the 3rd play, Kelce fumbles the ball for a D TD and their good OL turns into swiss cheese, we absolutely can beat the Chefs.

If Allen goes down after the 3rd play, Diggs fumbles the ball for a D TD and their not so good OL turns into swiss cheese, we absolutely can beat the Jills.

I think we found the winning formula.

A win is a win, let's take it and keep on moving. A lot of encouraging things about last night. A lot of things need improvement but love to see the contributions from our young players!!!!!! Let's goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Ross12]

I thought the same last year, and then 6 OL were taken before our spot. All the 1st round projected OL were gone right before we picked. LOL. This is going to come at a premium, and even scarier is the fact that some of those OL picked in the top 19 are already considered busts by their teams. There are 4th rounders having much more success, like Jamaree Salyer.

It's good that we stockpiled picks because I want our 1st rounder to be a difference maker at practically ANY position. I want BPA, and then spend 2 picks on tackles in the mid rounds, one at the end of the draft.

Yeah, it may be wiser to spend 2 or 3 picks on linemen in the middle rounds than try to swing big on later first rounder and miss.

In an ideal world, you manage to find a new at-least-average left tackle and get Brown moved back to right tackle where he's usually solid. He's not doing great at left tackle lately. I'm starting to wonder what Isaiah Wynn's free agent market will even be. Maybe he'll be kept.