Not Mortgaging the Future

[rochrist]

No.

Yes. See? Two can play that game.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

No.

Yes

 

[TheRainMaker]

Yes. See? Two can play that game.

Yes

Maybe?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Maybe?

Meyers will not be missed - I agree. Duggar will be missed if not resigned. I am thinking Peppers might shine this year too - Peppers finished very strong in 2022.

 

[Nunchucks]

Duggar is pretty good and worth signing to a 4 years deal.

The cap stuff is frustrating, what else can be said?

 

[RIpats88]

People on this board have an unhealthy obsession with bragging about how cheap the pats are and saving Krafts money.

As if that's somehow a good thing. Meanwhile ticket prices are going up...

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

People on this board have an unhealthy obsession with bragging about how cheap the pats are and saving Krafts money.

As if that's somehow a good thing. Meanwhile ticket prices are going up...

I do not see people bragging about how cheap the Pats are. Maybe a few odd ones, but most posters are only trying to be reasonable with the salary cap and not overpay for average players. People are upset when Jonnu got a big contract but produces little, but no-one is upset that Judon got a big contract as he produces as expected.

 

[DarrylS]

When I read posts like these I wonder how long these folks would have remained fans during the many years before BB came to town, when the Pats were the perennial door mat and laughing stock of the NFL... Kraft is not "cheap" and BB is a hall of fame coach.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

I thought they already mortgaged the future. Go to a broken down QB the yr after Brady. Then use an defensive coordinator as an offensive coordinator. That will set you back

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I thought they already mortgaged the future. Go to a broken down QB the yr after Brady. Then use an defensive coordinator as an offensive coordinator. That will set you back

No idea what this means. The Pats have extensive cap space, top 3 in the NFL, in 2024 and 2025. The Pats need great drafts and for the QB/offense to produce, but the Pats have not mortgaged, or spent, their future. Quite the contrary, the Pats have saved for the future, and some posters think the Pats have saved too much.

 

[RobertWeathers]

When I read posts like these I wonder how long these folks would have remained fans during the many years before BB came to town, when the Pats were the perennial door mat and laughing stock of the NFL... Kraft is not "cheap" and BB is a hall of fame coach.

They wouldn't be. I question if they still are or even were in the first place.

 

[TomPatriot]

When I read posts like these I wonder how long these folks would have remained fans during the many years before BB came to town, when the Pats were the perennial door mat and laughing stock of the NFL... Kraft is not "cheap" and BB is a hall of fame coach.

Kraft is so cheap he built a stadium without public funding. He’s now renovating a stadium without public funding. Pats were mid-pack in cap spending in 2022. Unless “cheap“ is an ugly word for something else, I don’t see it.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

The model to spend only this years cap without deferring money to future years to 'overstock' the roster is the reason that the Pats had such a long run of dominance. The Rams are the classic example of spending future money and draft capital to win during a very small window. The Pats did it to a lesser extend during Brady's last year or two. The end result of spending future money is a period of time where the full cap is not available to spend on the team taking the field. Ultimately the ownership spends the same amount over the long haul.

 

[Ross12]

I do find it very interesting that there’s such a gulf in regards to players rostered/on the cap in 2024 and especially 2025. It’s very clean after this year. Their moves feel purpose-built to allow them to pivot in an entirely different direction after 2023 if they wish. Their only “longer” deal this free agency is a 3 year deal for Juju which can actually be walked away from after 2 years with very minimal impact.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I do find it very interesting that there’s such a gulf in regards to players rostered/on the cap in 2024 and especially 2025. It’s very clean after this year. Their moves feel purpose-built to allow them to pivot in an entirely different direction after 2023 if they wish. Their only “longer” deal this free agency is a 3 year deal for Juju which can actually be walked away from after 2 years with very minimal impact.

Yes, it is very curious.

Bedard turns it into a conspiracy theory that Kraft told BB to reduce the cap in case BB is not around next year - I think that is complete BS with Bedard trying to be Felger.

I also note that I saw a bunch of teams offering essentially 1 year deals like Myers in LV and Harris in Buffalo. So the shorter guarantees seems to be something the players are accepting and teams are offering.

But it still is curious. I assumed we had so much cap space to sign our own guys of course, and add FAs to complete our rebuild, but also to pivot at QB if necessary. By pivot I mean not Jones or Zappe.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

Most of the posts on the first page of this thread are moronic in the extreme. We have a team coming off what was really a 9 or 10 win season but for some crazy sh*t that went down, with a fully intact above-average defense, a team with a good young QB entering his 3rd year, good weapons, best HC in the business, good OC and DC, good young front office, picking #14 with 11 picks total, 4 years removed from their 3rd SB in 5 years, and they're all bellyaching and criticizing like we're the gd Houston Texans.

And with all that as a base, now we learn that we also have the absolute BEST cap situation in the league looking forward. The horror of it all. These are dark times indeed.

 

[Wozzy]

Kraft or BB being "cheap" has absolutely nothing to do with salary cap. Teams can't outspend each other to succeed like the Yankees, this is the entire reason for a hard salary cap. It keeps player's salaries sane, and promotes parity as big market teams can't simply outspend small market teams. "Cheap" has nothing to do with it.

A lot of people lauded the Rams for spending through the nose and winning one ring, holding that up as a great example of modern team building and pretending the Patriot way has gone the way of the dodo. Nonsense... why? Because for every Ram's example there are a dozen other teams who spend through the nose and fail... yet nobody wants to talk about those teams. In short, throwing money at a problem doesn't ensure you'll fix the problem, very often you're only throwing good money on top of bad.

The Rams example is laughable anyway... the biggest reason they haven't made a first round pick since 2016 isn't because GM Les Snead doesn't value first round picks, it was to fix dumb mistakes like extending a RB with bum knees in Todd Gurley and making the desperate move of giving Jared Goff a massive contract, then having to pay a ransom in picks to get rid of those contracts. McVay is one of the best coaches and talent developers in the NFL, without him Snead would have been fired years ago. They spent a ton of their future cap to win one ring, they gave away all their draft picks like candy... now they're having a fire sale with all their best players after winning 5 games and they'll flounder in mediocrity again.

Give me the steady opportunity to be a contender that the Patriots way of fiscal responsibility provides over the peaks and valleys that most loser teams employ. Going all in at the end of Brady's run was smart, they had a Super Bowl winning roster and a chance at multiple rings because Tom was willing to take less. The team matched that commitment in borrowing from future cap, then they had to pay that bill in 2020 and have been rebuilding since... but playing in 4 Super Bowls and winning 3 was well worth it. It was certainly better than winning one and being worse off like the Rams are, at least BB never gave away his draft picks which allowed for a quick turnaround.

Draft well, spread the wealth across the 53 man roster, build from the trenches out, don't overpay and you can contend every year once you have your foundational players in place.

 

[n6249c]

…
Give me the steady opportunity to be a contender that the Patriots way of fiscal responsibility provides over the peak and valleys that most loser teams employ.

…
Draft well, spread the wealth across the 53 man roster, build from the trenches out, don't overpay and you can contend every year once you have your foundational players in place.

Everybody wants those peaks but not the valleys. We hear complaints because the Patriots don’t binge so the highs aren’t there from making the big trades. But the hangover and crash and headaches from trading away picks and mortgaging the future aren’t there either. Used to be the Lombardi came frequently enough to provide a different kind of high. Even when the Pats fell short that usually meant losing the AFCC not missing the playoffs. Now we went all in and mortgaged the future for Brady’s last years with the team and have been paying the price. Looks like the balance sheet has been cleaned up, now it’s time to reload and start another run, without mortgaging the future.

 

[Wozzy]

Everybody wants those peaks but not the valleys. We hear complaints because the Patriots don’t binge so the highs aren’t there from making the big trades. But the hangover and crash and headaches from trading away picks and mortgaging the future aren’t there either. Used to be the Lombardi came frequently enough to provide a different kind of high. Even when the Pats fell short that usually meant losing the AFCC not missing the playoffs. Now we went all in and mortgaged the future for Brady’s last years with the team and have been paying the price. Looks like the balance sheet has been cleaned up, now it’s time to reload and start another run, without mortgaging the future.

The Chargers got no high whatsoever from overpaying JC Jackson 82.5 million dollars… their fans were calling him the biggest free agent bust in history.

He is a solid #2 CB, but he was never a shutdown CB the way Gilmore was. You don’t overpay that guy just because fans were clamoring for it. Most don’t understand value… or get it from media members or outside sources with poor value systems.

PFF told us in 2017 that Stephon Gilmore wasn’t very good, he had a bad player grade… Bill knew otherwise and paid him instead of Malcolm Butler. Butler reverted back to the frog he really was, and Gilmore became DPOY and best CB in the NFL.

You pay that guy, even if he looked like a lesser player on a bad Bills defense and Butler (Jackson) looked like a superstar on a great Patriots defense. People confuse team success with individual talent all the time.

 

[Ross12]

Yes, it is very curious.

Bedard turns it into a conspiracy theory that Kraft told BB to reduce the cap in case BB is not around next year - I think that is complete BS with Bedard trying to be Felger.

I also note that I saw a bunch of teams offering essentially 1 year deals like Myers in LV and Harris in Buffalo. So the shorter guarantees seems to be something the players are accepting and teams are offering.

But it still is curious. I assumed we had so much cap space to sign our own guys of course, and add FAs to complete our rebuild, but also to pivot at QB if necessary. By pivot I mean not Jones or Zappe.

I listened to that take from Bedard as well, I don’t believe it’s anything like that either. But it does still feel like SOMETHING is up. Structuring nearly every deal to create a very clean break in 2024 and almost completely redo your team if you wanted is so odd. And it’s the same year that they’d need to pick up Mac’s 5th year option, or otherwise start thinking about an extension.