No Surprise: The Defense Is Awful Early

[iapatsfan]

No team wins a Super Bowl giving up 386.5 Yards Of Offense on average Per Game all season.

This has got to be the luckiest 6-2 team of all time - We will take it as it is but we can't continue to let opposing offenses move the ball at will on the ground and in the air.

It will catch up to us if the defense cannot adjust before the beginning of December.

This team is not going to get better by Dec. There is no magic formula for why they are bad on D, and can't move the ball on O. The Pats players are just not that good. To me it's not rocket science. We have a bunch of players that were avg to above avg (not great) players in college and now we're shocked that they struggle in the NFL?

Honestly, how many players do we have on the roster that were dominant college players? I know there are exceptions, but for the most part the guys that were playmakers in college are the ones who become playmakers in the NFL. I know every team needs to have role players, because with the salary cap no team can just stack their roster with proven playmakers. It just seems the Pats have a team full of guys that have only been role players their entire careers with just a few exceptions. Does anybody agree that we appear to getting "out-athleted" on a week to week basis? I'm sure most of these guys are quality people and have high character, but this team needs an infusion of proven playmakers, not guys that have been "nice" players at their respective colleges.

 

[mgteich]

Obviously, you are entitled to believe that the patriots are playing better than Atlanta and the giants. It is simply a matter of opinion.

You are the second person in this thread to call the Pats the worst 6-2 team and I would like to know why you and the OP think this is the case.

I put my logic up in my last post.

 

[Deus Irae]

I don't know why some of you guys don't think the Pats games are exciting due to them not being a "dominant" team. I think the fact that we are the worst 6-2 team and are poor in some areas makes it more exciting to watch. It is always fun to watch the underdog win.

Because the offense has been stagnant with only occasional bursts, with the result being that it's relatively boring to watch, and the defense gets run up and down the field.

That's not really fun to watch when you're used to seeing a track meet on offense and more positively consistent play from your defense. It's a relative thing. Lions fans would be loving this Patriots team.

If this team can keep winning, and do that while showing a bit more consistency, people here will begin talking favorably about the style of play again, as they did when the team was choking the life out of opponents in 2003 and 2004.

 

[borg]

My favorite part of Pats games is the opponent's opening drive. They march 65 yards in 6 minutes and settle for a field goal. Riveting!

 

[signbabybrady]

Obviously, you are entitled to believe that the patriots are playing better than Atlanta and the giants. It is simply a matter of opinion.

Just curious why you are so quick to put us on the bottom of the list? I guess your reason could be your original point to the post and I am being stupid for asking over and over.

 

[mgteich]

The light dawns

Just curious why you are so quick to put us on the bottom of the list? I guess your reason could be your original point to the post and I am being stupid for asking over and over.

 

[Ring 6]

We knew the defense would take time to gel. We knew there would be games where the opponents ran for 200 yards. What we couldn't imagine is that we would be dead last in TOP, 3rd down conversions allowed and opponents' reception percentage.
==============

But we are still 6-2. Thank you San Diego and thank you special teams (Miami game). we are indeed the worst 6-2 team at the moment. The amazing thing about this sesaon is that only a couple of AFC eams are playing better than we are, and we haven't lost to either of them.
==============

Having lost Bodden, Warren, and now Gostkowski, we could be 7-5 after 12, and we still could be a Super Bowl team if our defense improves. But then, how can it not improve?

I dont know how we are the worst 6-2 team. Our 6 wins count as much as anyone elses.
Other 6-2 teams have won games that could have gone either way, actually moreso than us. (The Jets lose to Denver except for a penalty on a Hail Mary that wouldnt have been caught, and Pitt loses to Miami if the fumble call was correct)
I think you are putting too much value on statistics.
I don't know what thank you San Diego means, we beat them. We did the things that determine winning or losing better than them, yet you seem to want to apologize for that and the Miami game, because special teams contributed to a beat down.

 

[Ring 6]

People really need to take our 6-2 record with a grain of salt.While i agree that there isnt a dominant team such other teams dont have weaknesses like we have.Our defense is terrible on stopping 3rd downs and they get no pressure on the QB.I thought the wins over san diego and minnesota where due to coaching and execution in key spots.

Coaching and execution in key spots may be the 2 most important factors in how good a team is.

 

[Ring 6]

This team is not going to get better by Dec. There is no magic formula for why they are bad on D, and can't move the ball on O. The Pats players are just not that good. To me it's not rocket science. We have a bunch of players that were avg to above avg (not great) players in college and now we're shocked that they struggle in the NFL?

Honestly, how many players do we have on the roster that were dominant college players? I know there are exceptions, but for the most part the guys that were playmakers in college are the ones who become playmakers in the NFL. I know every team needs to have role players, because with the salary cap no team can just stack their roster with proven playmakers. It just seems the Pats have a team full of guys that have only been role players their entire careers with just a few exceptions. Does anybody agree that we appear to getting "out-athleted" on a week to week basis? I'm sure most of these guys are quality people and have high character, but this team needs an infusion of proven playmakers, not guys that have been "nice" players at their respective colleges.

Did you copy and paste that post from November of 2001?

 

[IcyPatriot]

We knew the defense would take time to gel. We knew there would be games where the opponents ran for 200 yards. What we couldn't imagine is that we would be dead last in TOP, 3rd down conversions allowed and opponents' reception percentage.

that's the way you look at it differently.

Bill could dumb it down a bit ... make it more basic and less complicated.

But that could also make for a longer learning curve.

Those stats would look a bit better but stats don't always = playoffs and rings.

Rather Bill throws everything at them at once ... he has said so himself.

With some hard work and a few breaks this option has greater upside but carries more risk. some younger players could flame out ... others will flourish. But if you want to be a top team quickly you roll the dice and see what happens.

This is how i see it ... more risk with potential greater and quicker reward.

I think the defense has done well and I expect them to continue the learning curve.

 

[TheComeback]

Give me a break. We aren't the worst 6-2 team, that's one of the dumbest things I've read on here in a while. The Ravens are 6-2, but somehow we're worse than they are, even though we beat them. The Jets are only 6-2 because of sheer luck in their last 2 games.

Our defense had a bad game against the Browns. But they've played very well at times this year too, and it's incredible how focused people get on the last game, ignoring everything that's happened this season. They're a lot better than the OP has portrayed them and they'll show it over the next few weeks.

 

[CheeseMonkeys]

Give me a break. We aren't the worst 6-2 team, that's one of the dumbest things I've read on here in a while. The Ravens are 6-2, but somehow we're worse than they are, even though we beat them. The Jets are only 6-2 because of sheer luck in their last 2 games.

Our defense had a bad game against the Browns. But they've played very well at times this year too, and it's incredible how focused people get on the last game, ignoring everything that's happened this season. They're a lot better than the OP has portrayed them and they'll show it over the next few weeks.

I said they are the worst 6-2 team but I'm just basing that on our terrible defensive stats and inconsistency. Other than that, I think we are a great team and still can win a superbowl.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

The defense hasn't been awful overall. They've been awful in 3 games (Jets, Browns, Bills), the other 5 games they've been solid at worst. That balances out to a little bit below average.

 

[mgteich]

I agree with all but the last sentence. I don't see how the defense "has doen well".

I certainly expect them to get better and for us to be in SB contention.

that's the way you look at it differently.

Bill could dumb it down a bit ... make it more basic and less complicated.

But that could also make for a longer learning curve.

Those stats would look a bit better but stats don't always = playoffs and rings.

Rather Bill throws everything at them at once ... he has said so himself.

With some hard work and a few breaks this option has greater upside but carries more risk. some younger players could flame out ... others will flourish. But if you want to be a top team quickly you roll the dice and see what happens.

This is how i see it ... more risk with potential greater and quicker reward.

I think the defense has done well and I expect them to continue the learning curve.

 

[mgcolby]

This team is not going to get better by Dec. There is no magic formula for why they are bad on D, and can't move the ball on O. The Pats players are just not that good. To me it's not rocket science. We have a bunch of players that were avg to above avg (not great) players in college and now we're shocked that they struggle in the NFL?

Honestly, how many players do we have on the roster that were dominant college players? I know there are exceptions, but for the most part the guys that were playmakers in college are the ones who become playmakers in the NFL. I know every team needs to have role players, because with the salary cap no team can just stack their roster with proven playmakers. It just seems the Pats have a team full of guys that have only been role players their entire careers with just a few exceptions. Does anybody agree that we appear to getting "out-athleted" on a week to week basis? I'm sure most of these guys are quality people and have high character, but this team needs an infusion of proven playmakers, not guys that have been "nice" players at their respective colleges.

You can't be this stupid!

So I am going to give two answers, one as if you are that ******* stupid; and one as if you are just well...not that up to speed on football. Honestly there is no in between! So I am giving you the benefit of the doubt.

Out athleted? No! In fact this is the most athletic Patriots team I can ever recall, but I only go back to 88'.

The majority of our rookies 2nd year guys were far mor than "nice" players at their college. The fact that you didn't single out Spikes from that comment makes you a football idiot! Sorry but its the truth! How do you consider a guy who was the best defensive player on multiple national title contending teams a "nice" player.

Newsflash every team wants playmakers! But the salary cap makes you DRAFT them not sign them!

I would suggest that you read more and post less until you have a better understanding of how the NFL works.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

You can't be this stupid!.

lol. I wondered that myself.

Is he really trying to say that we need to get GREAT college players in order to have a team full of GREAT nfl players? If i'm not mistaken, our QB wasnt GREAT in college. He turned out ok.

 

[mgcolby]

We knew the defense would take time to gel. We knew there would be games where the opponents ran for 200 yards. What we couldn't imagine is that we would be dead last in TOP, 3rd down conversions allowed and opponents' reception percentage.
==============

But we are still 6-2. Thank you San Diego and thank you special teams (Miami game). we are indeed the worst 6-2 team at the moment. The amazing thing about this sesaon is that only a couple of AFC eams are playing better than we are, and we haven't lost to either of them.
==============

Having lost Bodden, Warren, and now Gostkowski, we could be 7-5 after 12, and we still could be a Super Bowl team if our defense improves. But then, how can it not improve?

Are you watching football this season? Does the fact that our defense completely shutdown the Ravens in the 4th quarter and OT not count? Does the defense not get credit for 4 turnovers in the San Diego game? Or how about holding them to just 20 points regardless of everything that happened in that game. How many other teams held SD to 20 or less this season?

Does the defense not get credit for holding Rice and Peterson under 100 yards rushing? Was that the other team "allowing us to do that"? Because lord only knows that Patriots never actualy do anything! They are always the beneficiary of the ineptitude of others.

What the hell is wrong with people here? The worst 6-2 team? Do you realize how numb that sounds? There are only four 6-2 teams in the entire league but we must be the worst because we don't match up stat wise! Yet the Steelers, Jets and Ravens have done nothing in their "actual" play to suggest that they are any better than the Pats. The Ravens vaunted defense gave up a TD to lose the game less than 50 seconds after the Ravens offense scored a TD to go up 21-20.

The Steelers played like garbage in Miami, lost in NO and nearly lost Monday night to the struggling Bengals.

The Jets needed a desperation PI to beat Denver, got shutout by Green Bay, and then needed a Suh missed PAT to tie the game against Detroit to come back and beat them.

Yup I see all of that in the Pats play over 8 weeks!

I will never understand this board! :bricks:

 

[mgteich]

Understand what you will. At present we are the worst team in 3rd conversions in the LAST TEN YEARS. Not ONE TEAM in the entire nfl allows a quarterback to complete a higher percentage of his passes, NOT ONE.

Sure, the defense has had bright moments. There are lots of rookies and marginal players (Crable and Ninkovich) that are contributing big time. The defense has a bright future.

Are you watching football this season? Does the fact that our defense completely shutdown the Ravens in the 4th quarter and OT not count? Does the defense not get credit for 4 turnovers in the San Diego game? Or how about holding them to just 20 points regardless of everything that happened in that game. How many other teams held SD to 20 or less this season?

Does the defense not get credit for holding Rice and Peterson under 100 yards rushing? Was that the other team "allowing us to do that"? Because lord only knows that Patriots never actualy do anything! They are always the beneficiary of the ineptitude of others.

What the hell is wrong with people here? The worst 6-2 team? Do you realize how numb that sounds? There are only four 6-2 teams in the entire league but we must be the worst because we don't match up stat wise! Yet the Steelers, Jets and Ravens have done nothing in their "actual" play to suggest that they are any better than the Pats. The Ravens vaunted defense gave up a TD to lose the game less than 50 seconds after the Ravens offense scored a TD to go up 21-20.

The Steelers played like garbage in Miami, lost in NO and nearly lost Monday night to the struggling Bengals.

The Jets needed a desperation PI to beat Denver, got shutout by Green Bay, and then needed a Suh missed PAT to tie the game against Detroit to come back and beat them.

Yup I see all of that in the Pats play over 8 weeks!

I will never understand this board! :bricks:

 

[KDPPatsfan85]

This team is not going to get better by Dec. There is no magic formula for why they are bad on D, and can't move the ball on O. The Pats players are just not that good. To me it's not rocket science. We have a bunch of players that were avg to above avg (not great) players in college and now we're shocked that they struggle in the NFL?

Honestly, how many players do we have on the roster that were dominant college players? I know there are exceptions, but for the most part the guys that were playmakers in college are the ones who become playmakers in the NFL. I know every team needs to have role players, because with the salary cap no team can just stack their roster with proven playmakers. It just seems the Pats have a team full of guys that have only been role players their entire careers with just a few exceptions. Does anybody agree that we appear to getting "out-athleted" on a week to week basis? I'm sure most of these guys are quality people and have high character, but this team needs an infusion of proven playmakers, not guys that have been "nice" players at their respective colleges.

If you remember, we have a team that is very young. The oldest players on our roster that are actually playing are Brady and Wilfork. The rest of the players are rookies, 1st, and 2nd year players with a couple 3rd year players. It takes time to be what we used to be. We can only improve and come december i think we will be a lot better and be a playoff competitor. We are 6-2 and had some sloppy games. The offense has done a complete turn around than years pasts. We are running the ball more and using 2 TE sets more often with some spread and screens thrown in. Brady needs to start throwing to receivers hands and not to their feet.

 

[RobertWeathers]

If you remember, we have a team that is very young. The oldest players on our roster that are actually playing are Brady and Wilfork. The rest of the players are rookies, 1st, and 2nd year players with a couple 3rd year players. It takes time to be what we used to be. We can only improve and come december i think we will be a lot better and be a playoff competitor. We are 6-2 and had some sloppy games. The offense has done a complete turn around than years pasts. We are running the ball more and using 2 TE sets more often with some spread and screens thrown in. Brady needs to start throwing to receivers hands and not to their feet.

Pats are still throwing the ball 56% of the time (which is the same as last year. and in 08 was 51% w/o TB and 07 was 58%). It's the type of throws that they are making which are more of the shorter variety (ala 2003).