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No so quick observation (re: safeties in Saints game)

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AzPatsFan

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Well we finally had a preseason game and the Safeties have played a game.

I have withheld commenting on the supposed terrible secondary of 2011, since I thought it was a combination of cuts and injuries, that eliminated any coherent Team Safety play for most of the last season. IMHO, lots of useless verbiage was shed on how bad the corners looked, how poor the LB was, how poor the Defense was, yadda, yadda, yadda, ad infinitum. The plain fact was that the 2011 Patriots played without even mediocre Team Safety play last year.

I don't identify Team Safety play as turning in outstanding individual plays. It merely means that you are where you belong, when you belong to be there, so you can attempt to make a play or assist someone else in doing so.


For example, I can think of numerous occasions when McCourty played "inside and behind trail technique" to perfection, only to be accused of being beaten, when a designated Safety never appeared to play "outside and ahead technique". Frequently, he had to close and make the tackle, after a completion, and the designated Safety stiil had not appeared. Fans would see only him around the WR, and blame him for being beaten.



Even so the secondary individuals, did pretty well. There I said it. The Pats pass defense has led the NFL in 2010, and then the AFC in 2011, in INT turnovers the last two years. You can't do that without talent and speed.

But I couldn't recall a single play last season, where a Safety showed up on time, or even near to on-time, to assist the CBs. The team Safety play was non-existent, even if occasionally a player, purported to be a Safety, turned in an occasional good individual play.

I felt then, and still believe if the Team Safety play merely improved to below mediocre, the overall Defensive ratings, and the secondary pass ratings in particular, would soar. In the game against the Saints, I won't assert that the Safety play was even good, (but I could do so), but it certainly improved to at least mediocre, one level higher than I needed to see.

With it, the Defensive stats will soar in 2012. Gregory and Chung can play Team Safety Defense, and actually be where they belong, when they belong there. Tavon Wilson has passed the requirement to be considered at least a valid NFL Safety participant too, as he showed he could be in the right place, at the right time too, so there is some depth appearing.

In short Bill Belichick has accomplished the primary task he set out to do. The evidence is in, BB has rebuilt the Secondary, already.
 
For example, I can think of numerous occasions when McCourty played "inside and behind trail technique" to perfection, only to be accused of being beaten, when a designated Safety never appeared to play "outside and ahead technique".
This is what makes fan observations unreliable. If we don't now where everybody was SUPPOSED to be (ie., the play call) then we can't really determine if that guy was whiffing or covering up for somebody else.

But I couldn't recall a single play last season, where a Safety showed up on time, or even near to on-time
That is scary.

Interesting now that perhaps Bill may have solved that problem. What happens next should be interesting. Maybe the safeties are getting it.
 
I like your take Az while realizing that any & all "exhibition" games can lead to major mis-conclusions. It is true that last year the way back crew were MIA. BB screwed up by jettisoning BOTH safeties without ensuring he had a semblance of coordination back there.
 
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I don't identify Team Safety play as turning in outstanding individual plays. It merely means that you are where you belong, when you belong to be there, so you can attempt to make a play or assist someone else in doing so.

I agree, if the above ends up being "all" that Gregory and Wilson add to the safety position along with Chung, then the secondary will be immeasurably better than it was in 2011.
 
Gregory, to my eyes, looked like a NFL safety last night. Not all-pro, but good. Wilson also looked like he had at least had a clue and looked promising even as a rookie. I agree that if the Pats can get at least average/good NFL caliber safety play this season, that should help the defense get off the field on 3rd down and would be a nice improvement.
 
Gregory, to my eyes, looked like a NFL safety last night. Not all-pro, but good. Wilson also looked like he had at least had a clue and looked promising even as a rookie. I agree that if the Pats can get at least average/good NFL caliber safety play this season, that should help the defense get off the field on 3rd down and would be a nice improvement.

The pass rusher will be extremely important too.
 
I just wish that on 3rd and 20 or 3rd and 70 we could maybe ...elect to give them 10 yards and an automatic first down, because it feels like we always give up 3rd and absurdly long but hold steady on 3rd and medium-short.
 
I just wish that on 3rd and 20 or 3rd and 70 we could maybe ...elect to give them 10 yards and an automatic first down, because it feels like we always give up 3rd and absurdly long but hold steady on 3rd and medium-short.
Stop whining, man. The Pats were successful on 2/3rds of their 3rd down plays against a very good offense, who had an extra game to get prepared.

The fact that they completed that 3rd and real long was a bit disheartening, but look back at even THAT play and you'll see 2 Pats in close coverage. It took both a great pass and catch to complete that one. It happens. That's why the other guys get paychecks too.

AZ makes his point well. For the first time in a long time our Safeties were equal participants in the overall defensive secondary and it SHOWED. Last season the only S who showed up in coverage to help the CB's was ironically Devon McCourty/

Now if I can only get the CB's to turn and find the ball, we'd REALLY have something to get excited about.
 
I just wish that on 3rd and 20 or 3rd and 70 we could maybe ...elect to give them 10 yards and an automatic first down, because it feels like we always give up 3rd and absurdly long but hold steady on 3rd and medium-short.

The coverage was excellent on that play. Give credit where credit is due - great throw, good catch.

Jesse Holley - my binky! - had a chance last night where a pass was perfectly thrown by Mallett over the defender who was in great position. The ball hit Holley's hands and he didn't finish the catch.

Sigh. Jesse Holley. My soon to be cut binky!
 
This area has so much potential. Not only should it not be a weakness this year, it could be a strength given the potential of McCourty/RID.
 
Stop whining, man. The Pats were successful on 2/3rds of their 3rd down plays against a very good offense, who had an extra game to get prepared.

The fact that they completed that 3rd and real long was a bit disheartening, but look back at even THAT play and you'll see 2 Pats in close coverage. It took both a great pass and catch to complete that one. It happens. That's why the other guys get paychecks too.

AZ makes his point well. For the first time in a long time our Safeties were equal participants in the overall defensive secondary and it SHOWED. Last season the only S who showed up in coverage to help the CB's was ironically Devon McCourty/

Now if I can only get the CB's to turn and find the ball, we'd REALLY have something to get excited about.

I would like to add that BB doesn't use overload blitzes,like NO did against Mallet and also situational substitutions on 3rd down in preseason.....He plays pretty much straight up on 3rd down to get a better feel for the individual players rather than the defense scheme as a whole....This is a much better way to go,imo.

Watch the Jets tonite,and also the Iggles in 10 days,and I'll guarantee these coaches and DC's will dial up some exotica on defense,which has more to do with ego(Rex),than practice.

Bill Belichick is all about analysis and evaluation,not playing to the crowd......THAT's the way it should be and THAT's why he's the best.:rocker:
 
Great post Az, it's about team defense. There were clueless people out there making others look bad when they did about as much as they could.

Team defense takes a lot of time to gel, it's not at all about highlight reel hits. It's a work in progress, but i feel there will be progress, whereas last year it was pretty much a roll of the dice every play.

The great Patriot defenses were great, not because of individual talent, but because some of the great veterans could take a chance and know someone would cover their ass. Until you reached the level of a Law or Harrison, you just did your job, which is plenty for most players.
 
The coverage was excellent on that play. Give credit where credit is due - great throw, good catch.

Jesse Holley - my binky! - had a chance last night where a pass was perfectly thrown by Mallett over the defender who was in great position. The ball hit Holley's hands and he didn't finish the catch.

Sigh. Jesse Holley. My soon to be cut binky!

Sure maybe last night it was well covered, but it just seems like 3rd and very long is a weakness for some reason while 3rd and short is something i usually feel confident about.
 
None of the DBs could play man coverage until late in the year. Every time they did they got burned. The safeties were only part of the problem.
 
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Aside from jettisoning two safeties early, injuries took their toll on the secondary last year... Ras I Dowling went down early as did Leigh Bodden, both of whom were part of the master plan..

After that is was DB of the week, remember Ihedibo.. after every play in the latter part of the season his arm was dangling..
 
Has anyone checked the Pats 2012 schedule and realized our D will be facing the least imposing group of QBs in the history of the world.

Week 1....
Tenn.....Hasselback or Locker.....Old guy or sucky guy
Week 2...
Ariz....Kolb or Skelton....not good when team doesn't know who to start
Week 3...
Balt....Flacco...not afraid to air it out....at a 57% completion rate
Week 4...
Buffalo....with a healthy Fred Jackson, Fitzpatrick has a balanced O that can put up numbers. On his own, Fitz has yet to show he can carry a team with his arm.
Week 5...
Denver....First test verses premium QB. I don't expect the precision of the Indy O
Week 6...
Seattle....Flynn or Jackson.....The crowd noise will be tougher than the passing game
Week 7...
Jets....the tabloids say Sanchize has bulked up. Sanchize will now be able to tackle the DBs that pick off his passes
Week 8...
Bradford....the shine is gone/ the O line is horrible and he should be IRed by the time the Pats play him
Week 10...
Buff....see week 4
Week 11...
Indy...BB will pull the old bend/break D out hoping the rookie coughs it up
Week 12...
JEST...jest/jest/jest...
Tebow time??
Week 13...
By the time NE plays the fish, Miami could be on their 3rd QB. Without Marshall anymore...S Beach beach party....Gronksalsa
Week 14...
Houston....If Schaub can last this long into the season, then the Pats secondary will be challenged
Week 15...
SF....this game has a 13-9 feel to it. SF will want to keep Brady off field....run after run after run
Week 16...
Jacksonville...Will Gabbert be above 50% at this point in season....A resting opportunity for the Flying Elvi
Week 17...
Miami...Tannehill gets some snaps at this point in Miami's lost season. Ocho lights it up with a catch

In all seriousness.....have the Patriots ever faced a weaker line up of passers in one season. If our D is not a top 10 D in both yards and points, when will it ever be.
 
I like your take Az while realizing that any & all "exhibition" games can lead to major mis-conclusions. It is true that last year the way back crew were MIA. BB screwed up by jettisoning BOTH safeties without ensuring he had a semblance of coordination back there.

Yeah but Sergio Brown had a better camp than both of them.
 
None of the DBs could play man coverage until late in the year. Every time they did they got burned. The safeties were only part of the problem.

A big part. It's rare to find a CB who doesn't need safety help
 
Has anyone checked the Pats 2012 schedule and realized our D will be facing the least imposing group of QBs in the history of the world.

Week 1....
Tenn.....Hasselback or Locker.....Old guy or sucky guy
Week 2...
Ariz....Kolb or Skelton....not good when team doesn't know who to start
Week 3...
Balt....Flacco...not afraid to air it out....at a 57% completion rate
Week 4...
Buffalo....with a healthy Fred Jackson, Fitzpatrick has a balanced O that can put up numbers. On his own, Fitz has yet to show he can carry a team with his arm.
Week 5...
Denver....First test verses premium QB. I don't expect the precision of the Indy O
Week 6...
Seattle....Flynn or Jackson.....The crowd noise will be tougher than the passing game
Week 7...
Jets....the tabloids say Sanchize has bulked up. Sanchize will now be able to tackle the DBs that pick off his passes
Week 8...
Bradford....the shine is gone/ the O line is horrible and he should be IRed by the time the Pats play him
Week 10...
Buff....see week 4
Week 11...
Indy...BB will pull the old bend/break D out hoping the rookie coughs it up
Week 12...
JEST...jest/jest/jest...
Tebow time??
Week 13...
By the time NE plays the fish, Miami could be on their 3rd QB. Without Marshall anymore...S Beach beach party....Gronksalsa
Week 14...
Houston....If Schaub can last this long into the season, then the Pats secondary will be challenged
Week 15...
SF....this game has a 13-9 feel to it. SF will want to keep Brady off field....run after run after run
Week 16...
Jacksonville...Will Gabbert be above 50% at this point in season....A resting opportunity for the Flying Elvi
Week 17...
Miami...Tannehill gets some snaps at this point in Miami's lost season. Ocho lights it up with a catch

In all seriousness.....have the Patriots ever faced a weaker line up of passers in one season. If our D is not a top 10 D in both yards and points, when will it ever be.

You're being overly harsh on some opposing QBs.

Locker has been very good in his short career and I think he could surprise people given the chance.

Flacco has had moderate success throwing on us before--he was certainly not the reason his team lost the AFCCG.

I put Matt Flynn in the same category as Jake Locker where he could easily be a very good QB but we haven't seen it yet.

It's pretty hypocritical that we're all banking on McCourty returning to rookie form but then we assume someone like Sam Bradford won't do the same.

Andrew Luck is a rookie with a crappy roster around him, so we'll see. Definitely not a guy to overlook, however.

I thought Matt Moore played very well last year (not a Pro Bowler, but solid, possibly even above average) and should not be in danger of losing his job. That being said, he has exactly 0 guys to throw it to.

It's too early to call Gabbert a bust, too. I think the Jaguars could pull together a nice season if they can catch just a few breaks that teams like them (see: Cleveland, Detroit) typically don't get.

Certainly a lot of the QBs the Patriots will face are just unrealized potential right now, but if we're going to act like our players have enormous upside and should be feared, we should also do the same for other teams when appropriate.
 
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