N'Keal Harry (lack of) Progress Report

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Wozzy

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Acting like Rambo last year is what got him hurt, fighting for another yard is what caused the fumble last week. I want Harry to understand the season is a marathon and not a sprint, some fans here should learn that as well.

His yards after stats look small because of small sample size and a couple short gainers. He has caught multiple slants, seam routes and some back shoulder throws downfield. Stop actively searching for something wrong and what you'll see is a big physical athletic WR who has no issues "separating."

Feed that man, keep him healthy, watch him thrive.
 
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Taco

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
He’s like a younger Sanu. Good hands but I’m concerned about the separation on his routes and the fact that he is still catching screens. I was hoping we would see more slants over the middle with him this year.
 

TomPatriot

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He’s been more productive and hasn’t dropped a pass. The route tree has to expand, though. The routes are better, so sometimes he’s getting a step which wasn’t happening last year. I’m cautiously optimistic.
 

luuked

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The catches on that drive were encouraging. I could be wrong but I think the Seahawks were in prevent at that point, which makes me personally take whatever production happens there with a grain of salt.

So are we then also taking all production from Brady, Edelman and whoever else in the Falcons SB with a grain of salt because Atlanta spent the entire game in "prevent" ? How about the Seahawks SB ? They were two scores ahead so clearly "prevent" right ?

Whats the cut off point here ?
 

Brotherblues

Practice Squad Player
So are we then also taking all production from Brady, Edelman and whoever else in the Falcons SB with a grain of salt because Atlanta spent the entire game in "prevent" ? How about the Seahawks SB ? They were two scores ahead so clearly "prevent" right ?

Whats the cut off point here ?

I don't know. I actually consider all of those to be good questions, even if you're just mocking. I think it applied at least for parts of the Atlanta comeback. Not saying it's without credit, but I'm not alone in thinking prevent defense plays a big role in a lot of comebacks, be they by our team or the opposition.

Don't know about a cutoff point either... I see it as more of a case by case thing, based on what we see the defense doing. And in this case, for this thread in which we are discussing what may or may not be signs of Harry's development, I think it is relevant to note that most (nearly all?) of his catches remotely apart from the line of scrimmage came when the defense appeared to be playing rather loose coverages.

Just to clarify I'm not saying Harry is hopeless or that this is some great indictment on him, just that the evidence on the field is still inconclusive.
 

Brotherblues

Practice Squad Player
For what it's worth, the last catch near the goal line was pretty good. And holding on during a big hit on an earlier catch was also impressive. Those are the two moments I remember feeling impressed and hopeful for Harry.
 

luuked

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I don't know. I actually consider all of those to be good questions, even if you're just mocking. I think it applied at least for parts of the Atlanta comeback. Not saying it's without credit, but I'm not alone in thinking prevent defense plays a big role in a lot of comebacks, be they by our team or the opposition.

Don't know about a cutoff point either... I see it as more of a case by case thing, based on what we see the defense doing. And in this case, for this thread in which we are discussing what may or may not be signs of Harry's development, I think it is relevant to note that most (nearly all?) of his catches remotely apart from the line of scrimmage came when the defense appeared to be playing rather loose coverages.

I am not mocking at all but came up with more extreme cases that seem to fit your criteria of "prevent defense".

Unless you go through the individual catches and point out how the technique played by Harry's defender (and the big picture defense of Seattle) were designed differently to before to prevent big plays I just find it intellectually lazy to rubberstamp everything that happens down 2 scores in the fourth quarter "prevent defense".

Going through that exercise you might end up being right. I don't know.
 

TomPatriot

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I am not mocking at all but came up with more extreme cases that seem to fit your criteria of "prevent defense".

Unless you go through the individual catches and point out how the technique played by Harry's defender (and the big picture defense of Seattle) were designed differently to before to prevent big plays I just find it intellectually lazy to rubberstamp everything that happens down 2 scores in the fourth quarter "prevent defense".

Going through that exercise you might end up being right. I don't know.

Just about all of them were contested catches.
 

Patsgofor4

In the Starting Line-Up
Harry isn't 6'4, but 6'2 1/2.

When he gets nearer to healthy, and he & Cam continue to develop together, he's gonna be very good.

Yup. 6'2"3/8 to be exact. Here are the his combine numbers:

ACBC88B4-13D3-4B2D-8E38-11F0C386DBBD.jpeg

Impressed? Well, the joke's on you, because those are Mike Evans numbers, at 231 lbs.

Here are Harry's numbers, at 228 lbs.
A31CF0E4-E4CF-4E60-9AA1-74AD111946A1.jpeg
They are remarkably similar, other than Harry's superior vert (Evans makes up for that with his 6'5" frame) and and crazy bench press strength for at WR (versus a shockingly poor number from that weakling Evans). The fact that those 28 reps put him slightly ahead of DK in that category gives you a sense of how strong Harry is.

The regular *****ing about not DK is worn out and lazy. Most of the people *****ing are regular contributors to the Bucs thread here (infatuated with Brady, dislike Bill, dislike Harry and label him a bust after 8 games because of his association with Bill). DK is a beast but he isn't a fit for the Pats office and wasn't a fit for Brady. He ended up in the perfect for his skill set, with the best long ball thrower in the league. I'm not sure that there is another quarterback in the league who makes that throw on Sunday night.

Based upon scheme and year one of their careers, AJ Brown should have been the choice over Harry but that is still TBD. Having so many first year wide receivers produce last year was an anomaly, but it also magnifies Harry's lack of production. The reality is that mediocre rookie years have been the norm at the WR position, not the exception, other than the truly elite HOF talent guys like Megatron and Julio, even without the kind of injury issues that torpedoed Harry last year.

Harry isn't quick but his athletic scores for his size were near the top of the WR class. I see him as a Dez or Alshon type....similar size and strength and leaping ability. Dez and Alshon weren't separators, they just were bigger and stronger and jump higher than most CBs. I actually think that Harry has more potential versatility than those two. He now has a quarterback who is willing to throw to him and help him develop confidence that can make an impact at this level as well.

In my opinion, McDaniels needs to start playing to his strengths because I think his playcalling in terms of Harry has been poor overall. Where are all the back shoulder throws and jump balls (down the field and corner of the end zone)? That's how Harry dominated in college. There have been too many 10 yd out patterns and wide receiver screens.
 

One-If-By-Sea

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
I am a Harry supporter. When I see a player improving I support them. Harry is getting better. I think he is still thinking too much so he is not naturally positioned when the ball arrives. He is so talented he still catches the ball. But once he learns the route tree I believe he will play more naturally (less thinking) and catch the ball in a position to explode such that his YAC go up.

Cam seems like a great mentor for Harry, and probably Jakobi and Gunner too. I like Cam for everything he is, but I respect him more for his team attitude with the young WRs.

Harry will keep getting better this year if his shoulder holds out, but we will have to wait until 2021 to see the beast Harry will become.

Patience PatsFans Patience :)
 

SammyBlueCat

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The catches on that drive were encouraging. I could be wrong but I think the Seahawks were in prevent at that point, which makes me personally take whatever production happens there with a grain of salt.

P.s. I think yards per route per target is usually meaningless... except when it's at such an extreme end of the spectrum. For what it's worth, I don't expect that trend to continue.
Prevent or a little bit gassed???
 

NG Pats Fan

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He’s like a younger Sanu. Good hands but I’m concerned about the separation on his routes and the fact that he is still catching screens. I was hoping we would see more slants over the middle with him this year.

younger Sanu? Yuck
 

NG Pats Fan

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Yup. 6'2"3/8 to be exact. Here are the his combine numbers:

View attachment 28681

Impressed? Well, the joke's on you, because those are Mike Evans numbers, at 231 lbs.

Here are Harry's numbers, at 228 lbs.
View attachment 28682
They are remarkably similar, other than Harry's superior vert (Evans makes up for that with his 6'5" frame) and and crazy bench press strength for at WR (versus a shockingly poor number from that weakling Evans). The fact that those 28 reps put him slightly ahead of DK in that category gives you a sense of how strong Harry is.

The regular *****ing about not DK is worn out and lazy. Most of the people *****ing are regular contributors to the Bucs thread here (infatuated with Brady, dislike Bill, dislike Harry and label him a bust after 8 games because of his association with Bill). DK is a beast but he isn't a fit for the Pats office and wasn't a fit for Brady. He ended up in the perfect for his skill set, with the best long ball thrower in the league. I'm not sure that there is another quarterback in the league who makes that throw on Sunday night.

Based upon scheme and year one of their careers, AJ Brown should have been the choice over Harry but that is still TBD. Having so many first year wide receivers produce last year was an anomaly, but it also magnifies Harry's lack of production. The reality is that mediocre rookie years have been the norm at the WR position, not the exception, other than the truly elite HOF talent guys like Megatron and Julio, even without the kind of injury issues that torpedoed Harry last year.

Harry isn't quick but his athletic scores for his size were near the top of the WR class. I see him as a Dez or Alshon type....similar size and strength and leaping ability. Dez and Alshon weren't separators, they just were bigger and stronger and jump higher than most CBs. I actually think that Harry has more potential versatility than those two. He now has a quarterback who is willing to throw to him and help him develop confidence that can make an impact at this level as well.

In my opinion, McDaniels needs to start playing to his strengths because I think his playcalling in terms of Harry has been poor overall. Where are all the back shoulder throws and jump balls (down the field and corner of the end zone)? That's how Harry dominated in college. There have been too many 10 yd out patterns and wide receiver screens.

lol we got the wide receiver expert here. Metcalf not being a fit for our offense is BS, he’s a fit for any offense. Secondly, I doubt we made the decision to pass on a Metcalf because of a 43 year old QB who would be out of the league before Metcalf finished his rookie deal. AJ Brown was a clear cut better choice than Harry as well. AJ Brown is one of the best YAC guys in the NFL. Harry can’t break ankle tackles. Bottom line is the WR scouts who chose Harry over these guys also selected Dobson over Allen, Taylor Price, Josh Boyce, Brandon Tate, Chad Jackson over Greg Jennings. BB thought Jonathan Baldwin would be as good as Julio Jones

as for throwing downfield, cam can make any throw downfield. He has a huge arm.
 

Brotherblues

Practice Squad Player
Prevent or a little bit gassed???
I am not mocking at all but came up with more extreme cases that seem to fit your criteria of "prevent defense".

Unless you go through the individual catches and point out how the technique played by Harry's defender (and the big picture defense of Seattle) were designed differently to before to prevent big plays I just find it intellectually lazy to rubberstamp everything that happens down 2 scores in the fourth quarter "prevent defense".

Going through that exercise you might end up being right. I don't know.

You're right, it's lazy to just call it "prevent" without verifying. Was mostly going by what it looked and felt like to me on the live broadcast. Could be proven way off upon looking at replays.
 

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